Since we are not under the law, why do we still Tithe?

[Sophrosyne]

And here all the time I thought they employed mice to make all those neat holes. It looks like what they do in my compost piles anyway. Psssss! Don't tell the cats.

Well they need to loose the cats on these law promoters here to keep them from nibbling holes in it.... making it God's holey law instead of Holy Law.

 

[LarryP2]

Well they need to loose the cats on these law promoters here to keep them from nibbling holes in it.... making it God's holey law instead of Holy Law.

Those predatory "law promoters" are just into an extraordinarily-cynical numbers game, the goal being the naked and ruthless extraction of 10 percent income streams from every new suc....er, Member they can con in. They know they are representing a total flimsy house of cards, what with the complete annihilation of Ellen White's credibility due to the extent of her truly jaw-dropping massive literary theft and false prophecies; the complete dismemberment of their cultish Investigative Judgment doctrine by their own top theologians; and finally, the savage destruction of their Sabbath Doctrine by their own Sabbath Expert, Dr. Samuele Bacchiochi. It is obvious that they go out preaching now and do not believe one single word of what they are teaching.

It is a sheer undisguised money grab. That's all.

So the Sabbath scam is the way they reach deep into your wallet to efficiently harvest that beautiful 10 percent income stream.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Those predatory "law promoters" are just into an extraordinarily-cynical numbers game, the goal being the naked and ruthless extraction of 10 percent income streams from every new suc....er, Member they can con in. They know they are representing a total flimsy house of cards, what with the complete annihilation of Ellen White's credibility due to the extent of her truly jaw-dropping massive literary theft and false prophecies; the complete dismemberment of their cultish Investigative Judgment doctrine by their own top theologians; and finally, the savage destruction of their Sabbath Doctrine by their own Sabbath Expert, Dr. Samuele Bacchiochi. It is obvious that they go out preaching now and do not believe one single word of what they are teaching.

It is a sheer undisguised money grab. That's all.

So the Sabbath scam is the way they reach deep into your wallet to efficiently harvest that beautiful 10 percent income stream.

I can't see mandatory tithing and Grace being even on the same page, if you can't choose to give less than a tenth then there is no choice in the matter.

 

[VictorC]

Tithing is part of the OT law that was abolished!!!

We say we tithe because Abraham tithed, why did he tithe when there was no command to do so?

-Abraham tithes to the high priest, and there is no high priest any longer.
-Tithes were for the levitical priesthood only.
-Tithing was always food, NOT money and they had money back then.
-Even Malachi shows it was food.

We cannot rewrite a law of God and flip it to suit our needs and try to make others feel guilty about tithing when it was a OT law that was abolished and was referring to food.


We are now to be giving freewill offerings of any amount that God places on your heart whether it is 5, 10, or 20%. God loves a cheerful giver, so give what God places on your heart and he will bless you.

10% can be a good starting point, but it is NOT a mandatory starting point and you are NOT robbing God if your offering is not a minimum 10% of your income. Stop letting these preachers pimp you.

You are only robbing God if you can give and choose to give nothing at all and keep it all to yourself.

I attended a Baptist congregation at one time, and there I heard them affirm a 'commandment' for the tithe. Everywhere else I've attended seems to have noticed that there is no commandment to tithe within Christianity, the reason we encourage freewill offerings to keep the bills paid and enable us to help others in need.
Guess what? I'm not a Baptist, having left them mostly over objections to their Dispensationalist doctrine. But I suppose errors are on sale two for the price of one...

Anyway, I agree with your point.

 

[Frogster]

The problem is not the tithe paying!
Mat 23: 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
The laws that are said to be abolished are not, nor tithing. All ten commandments are valid including the forth.

That was said to people under those ordinances, that was pre cross. It was food, herbs. I guess SDA people will now observe festivals too?

 

[Frogster]

In Matt23, Jesus is still alive and did not die yet, so they were still under the law, so they were supposed to be tithing, but even in that verse he is talking about food.

So if tithing is not abolished, what store front do you give 10% of your animals to?

Who is the high priest you tithe to?

WHere is the Levitical priesthood, you tithe to based out of?

Where did God say, you can change his laws on tithing and substitute animals for cash and make it a different command?

Tithing is abolished, you prove the point, the levitical priesthood is gone, the temple is gone, the law is gone, the stones are mentioned in 9:4, it is all over, poof! gone!

Just forget it all.


Jer 3:16 And when you have multiplied and been fruitful in the land, in those days, declares the Lord, they shall no more say, “The ark of the covenant of the Lord.” It shall not come to mind or be remembered or missed; it shall not be made again.

 

[Frogster]

Christ's did not change tithing nor the ten commandments. If so tell me now that as a christian it is Ok to lie steal and kill. If not shut-up on that score.
Tithing was on the increase, profit, on food cash or otherwise.
The tithe was not for the high priest only but for all the tribe of Levi. All who work in the Gospel. The problem is not the tithe but the wicked and money love pastors. The tithe is not for buying planes and cars, houses and lands but for all workers in the church and the poor and needy.
The tithe is God given for the support of His work.
God gave His life, a few dollars is too much to return to saving others?

So long as the law being one legal code is ignored, we will always have a buffet lunch, pick-n-choose laws.

 

[Frogster]

Im all for a free will offering to support the church, the needy, and the poor. But lets be real and call it what it is, a free will offering with a cheerful heart. Tithe was food, so we cant change that command around and magically say its money now.

The problem with getting offerings now, is if your a truthful about giving, no one will give, so we get what we have now in preachers taking scriptures out of context to almost extort money out of people or like you mentioned, funds houses, cars, and planes.

do you have any, even 1, NT verses that bind the church to tithing laws?

 

[from scratch]

Well they need to loose the cats on these law promoters here to keep them from nibbling holes in it.... making it God's holey law instead of Holy Law.

 

[Elder 111]

She certainly led by example, though. Her incredibly-massive, jaw-dropping literary thefts and her repeated calculated lies demonstrate her open, willful and savage contempt for God's Law. Then she had the unmitigated gall to deceitfully smear Christians, living under Grace and not under the Law pursuant to the clear teachings of the Apostle Paul, of abandoning the Ten Commandments to justify an immoral lifestyle! What an incredibly evil and sick woman she was! EVERYTHING that Christians need as far as do's and don't is contained in the Epistles. It is just an unimaginably grotesque fraud to suggest that Christians desire to kill, steal and lie because the Ten Commandments were "nailed to the Cross." ALL of those behaviors are strongly and unequivocally-denounced in the Epistles! To suggest otherwise - that only the Ten Commandments prohibit those things - is incredibly dishonest to the text of the Epistles. Sabbath Keeping was rejected by Christians and condemned as a Satanic, anti-Christian heresy by ALL of the First and Second Century Christian Fathers.



WRONG! Those behaviors were strongly prohibited many hundreds of years before the Ten Commandments, and were AGAIN strongly and unequivocally condemned by St. Paul in the Epistles. Your statement otherwise is just incredibly deceitful. White, in stealing most of Patriarchs and Prophets from Edersheim, knew good and well that a very advanced legal system was already in place when God handed down the Noahide Commandments, that predated the Ten Commandments by many hundreds of years. She deliberately lied through her teeth by not telling Adventists about the existence of those commandments and the advanced legal system that was set up to enforce those Commandments from God. White did so only to enslave gullible Adventists in her heretical anti-Christian Salvation by Works ("salvation by perfect Sabbath Keeping") scheme. The Mosaic law flatly-prohibited Gentiles from following the Mosaic law, on penalty of Death! Including most-importantly Sabbath Keeping! And that prohibition against Gentile Sabbath Keeping was overwhelmingly confirmed in the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem decree found in Acts 15.

That you come onto a Christian website and blatantly smear Christians with the incredibly-ugly and vicious falsehood that they wish to live immoral lives ("steal, kill, and lie"), and that is their motive for abandoning the entire Mosaic Law scheme is just sickening and appalling. Christianity abandoned the entire Mosaic Law system because they were specifically instructed to do so by the Apostles, and because they were now under a Grace administration instead of a law administration. The Mosaic law system was replaced with the detailed and comprehensive Rules and Regulations outlined in the Epistles. Instead of the Old Testament Sabbath and Circumcision, the outward signs of Christianity was and is now baptism and the Lord's Supper.

White revived the Second Century Ebionite heresy in order to engage in massive and unbridled and exploitative thievery against her gullible followers. Christianity has ALWAYS condemned Sabbath Keeping as a cultic, heretical and anti-Christian doctrine. Seventh Day Adventism is nothing more than the revival of the Ebionite Heresy - complete with Sabbath Keeping and vegetarianism - that was hotly-condemned and excommunicated by ALL of the First and Second Century Christian Fathers.

You are on the wrong track as Paul was before conversion. Paul never said that the Ten commandments was abolished and Jesus made the point that not even a dot or the crossing of a "T" would be removed from the law.
Mat 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Fulfill does not mean abolish. If so the text makes no sense. It is interesting that this is the only time that I know of that fulfill means "removed". It always means "carried out", " performed", "did". If Jesus did as the law required, are we now to do otherwise? Is He not our example?

 

[Elder 111]

Can a man rob God?
Mal.3:
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[LarryP2]

You are on the wrong track as Paul was before conversion. Paul never said that the Ten commandments was abolished and Jesus made the point that not even a dot or the crossing of a "T" would be removed from the law.
Mat 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Fulfill does not mean abolish. If so the text makes no sense. It is interesting that this is the only time that I know of that fulfill means "removed". It always means "carried out", " performed", "did". If Jesus did as the law required, are we now to do otherwise? Is He not our example?

You think taking texts out of context and sculpting scripture to support your Adventist Tithe Product®©™ impresses anyone? The Jehovah's Witnesses®©™ and the Branch Davidians®©™, which are chips off of the Old Seventh Adventist's block, have you beat hands down when it comes to manipulating texts to support your various heretical cult products. It is obvious that you do not understand the Law, and have no way of understanding it, given that your worldview was provided by a brain-damaged psychopath who claimed she saw a halo around the Fourth Commandment.

NO respectable Bible Scholar or theologian agrees with your Scripture sculpting of proof texts taken out of context.

Can a man rob God?
Mal.3:
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

HOW CONVENIENT! Sounds like a "Tithe Protection Racket Product®©™" scam.....pay da money over, and the Guidos with the sharkskin suits will rub out your competitors! Unfortunately, Scripture sculpting tends to come up with an absurd outcome, unless you are in the racket of peddling heretical cult products, like the Adventist Tithe Product®©™.

 

[from scratch]

Can a man rob God?
Mal.3:
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

Now apply this to the law about tithing which doesn't apply to Christians that are under a free will system of giving.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Now apply this to the law about tithing which doesn't apply to Christians that are under a free will system of giving.

Not to mention that Jesus took the curse at the cross.... some want us to take back the curse of the Law yet again. We don't see mention of any curses under Grace anywhere it is only when you go back to the Law that curses pop up to haunt you.

 

[SAAN]

do you have any, even 1, NT verses that bind the church to tithing laws?

There isnt any, yet many pastors take alot of verses out of context to almost extort money in guilt form their congregation, rather than let them give a free will offering out of love.

 

[LarryP2]

There isnt any, yet many pastors take alot of verses out of context to almost extort money in guilt form their congregation, rather than let them give a free will offering out of love.

You can always tell a non-Christian belief system: Guilt is their main product. Fear of Judgment. GIVE AND GIVE AND GIVE, with no end in sight and no real confidence. You don't even get any relief with Death. You wake up again and the hamster treadmill starts all over again, only this time, you have to deal with a Ten Story Terminator Killing Machine®©™ that tries to zap you to the point in desperation you try to swim across the Lake of Fire®©™ to escape. Resurrection Denial®©™l. Jesus as a wobbly and weak incompetent yahoo, but decent sort of a ham-handed guy that had a few nice life lessons (that are similar to Pop Psychology), but tragically ended up on the Cross without really having accomplished anything important. So we have to finish the job, using the utmost in Human Willpower Supplied By Strict Works®©™ . Heavily-manipulated Scripture Sculpting®©™, reviving some long-lost Professional-Grade, Complete Heretical Doctrinal Lifestyle Package®©™.

SSDD.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You can always tell a non-Christian belief system: Guilt is their main product. Fear of Judgment. GIVE AND GIVE AND GIVE, with no end in sight and no real confidence. Resurrection Denial®©™l. Jesus as a wobbly and weak incompetent but decent sort of a ham-handed guy that taught us how to live, but tragically ended up on the Cross without really having accomplished anything important. Heavily-manipulated Scripture Sculpting®©™, reviving some long-lost Professional-Grade, Complete Heretical Doctrinal Package®©™.

SSDD.

There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus!!!

 

[from scratch]

Not to mention that Jesus took the curse at the cross.... some want us to take back the curse of the Law yet again. We don't see mention of any curses under Grace anywhere it is only when you go back to the Law that curses pop up to haunt you.

Some people seem to love death. I much prefer life.

 

[from scratch]

There isnt any, yet many pastors take alot of verses out of context to almost extort money in guilt form their congregation, rather than let them give a free will offering out of love.

Like I said its the most successful law scam put over on Christians. They supposedly preach grace and demand law.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

You are on the wrong track as Paul was before conversion. Paul never said that the Ten commandments was abolished and Jesus made the point that not even a dot or the crossing of a "T" would be removed from the law.
Mat 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Fulfill does not mean abolish. If so the text makes no sense. It is interesting that this is the only time that I know of that fulfill means "removed". It always means "carried out", " performed", "did". If Jesus did as the law required, are we now to do otherwise? Is He not our example?
​

You think taking texts out of context and sculpting scripture to support your Adventist Tithe Product®©™ impresses anyone? The Jehovah's Witnesses®©™ and the Branch Davidians®©™, which are chips off of the Old Seventh Adventist's block, have you beat hands down when it comes to manipulating texts to support your various heretical cult products. It is obvious that you do not understand the Law, and have no way of understanding it, given that your worldview was provided by a brain-damaged psychopath who claimed she saw a halo around the Fourth Commandment.

NO respectable Bible Scholar or theologian agrees with your Scripture sculpting of proof texts taken out of context.



Originally Posted by Elder 111

Can a man rob God?
Mal.3:
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.
​

HOW CONVENIENT! Sounds like a "Tithe Protection Racket Product®©™" scam.....pay da money over, and the Guidos with the sharkskin suits will rub out your competitors! Unfortunately, Scripture sculpting tends to come up with an absurd outcome, unless you are in the racket of peddling heretical cult products, like the Adventist Tithe Product®©™.

I quoted God's word as is and you accuse me of manipulating God's word? How can that be? What indeed is evident is that you have rejected God's word.