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Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    Previously addressed. . .
  2. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Old Soul Supporter

    United States
    Do you think we are (ever) justified by keeping any rule of and/or law perfectly...?
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    Please show me where you previously addressed post # 85 linked; post # 86 linked; post # 148 linked and post # 152 linked. If you have not addressed any of these posts why are you pretending that you have? A non-response = not addressed. Anyhow as posted earlier if you do not want to talk about the posts and scriptures that have been shared with you that disagree with your teachings you do not have to if you do not want to. I have done my part. I will leave it between you and God.

    Take Care
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    We are only justified by faith in God's Word because all of us are sinners in need of God's salvation. When we receive Gods' forgiveness we obey Gods' Word not because we have to but because we love God. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's words are not how we are saved it is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. At the second coming Christs reward is with him *Revelation 22:12 see also Matthew 7:21-23. God's salvation therefore is salvation from sin *John 8:31-36 and not a license to continue in sin (breaking God's commandments). If we continue in sin we will die because the wages of sin (breaking God's law) is death to all those who reject the gift of Gods' dear son (Romans 6:23) and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  5. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    LoveGodsword: "Love is expressed in obedience to God' law resulting in the fulfilling of the letter of the law". "

    Matthew 22:36-40 [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

    Jesus Christ is love, we perceive He is love by the laying down of His life for us, the law and the prophets taught that, all the ones who spoke testified what Jesus had to suffer for us, You may say that Jesus fulfilled the law, but that does not bring us forgiveness from sin, only by His death and rising it did, which abolished all commandments contained in ordinances, and made a new creation, to reconcile all men unto God, in His one body by the cross, as the enmity contained in ordinances was slain right there, and then peace is preached to be believed in, to gain access to God by that one Spirit ( of Christ risen) ..

    Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
    18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

    LoveGodsword: "The letter comes before faith (Romans 10:17). Therefore the letter leads us to the Spirit and the Spirit fulfills (obeys) the letter through faith that works by love"

    Israel followed after the law, but they sought not by faith, and stumbled, by not believing instead on the Son of man ( which stops man being ashamed and unrighteous)

    Hearing comes by the word of God ( by the Gospel of Christ) and that is why the law did not lead Israel ( or anyone ) to faith.

    The law is said to be the school master ( but it leads nobody to faith of course it is childish instruction therefore)

    The child understands as a child ( without faith yet) but when they become a man ( of God) they put away ( the law) childish things..

    Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
    32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
    33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    LoveGodsword: "According to the scriptures however faith does not abolish Gods law it establishes Gods' law *Romans 3:31."

    Jesus then justifies by believing Jesus is just, by the law of faith.

    God justifies us through faith, this establishes the law ( OF FAITH)

    For the promise ( of faith) was not through the law ( the law is not of faith and then not of anything) and the promise was through the righteousness of faith ( without the law it led to nothing)..

    Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

    Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
    31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

    LoveGodsword: "If we break the letter of the law we are not keeping the Spirit of the law *Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; James 2:8-12 and 1 John 5:2-3."

    Of course this misunderstanding and opposition, began 2000 years ago, the Galatians refused to know that only by the hearing of faith, the Spirit is received ( not by law keeping or law support or law teaching)

    Because the law is not of faith.

    Galatians 5, then sums up the law, it is the flesh against the Spirit, but those led of the Spirit ( of Christ now) are not under the law ( the law works wrath not faith, so we receive the engrafted word that instead is able to save our souls through faith which is then the righteousness of God)...

    Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

    Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
    21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

    This is man delivered from the law, as it held man dead in unbelief.

    Now there is a new creation serving in newness of Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ ( Christ risen from the dead) makes us free from the law ( it is death by unbelief) the law was and is, failure, God sent the Son to condemn sin ( and the law of sin and death) in the flesh..

    Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    Not the epistle of Christ is nothing to do with the letter, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

    Go made the Apostles able ministers, not of the letter, but of the Spirit ( this is the new) for the letter did kill ( only the Spirit gives life)

    What was written was glorious, but the ministration of the Spirit is more glorious..

    2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
    4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
    5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
    6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
    8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

    LoveGodsword; "the letter through faith that works by love"

    Speaking of salvation, it is not in this strife, or envy ( by trying to protect sabbath law keeping) but by putting on the Lord Jesus Christ, this is what makes no provision to the flesh ( to the law) because you instead speak of Christ, and Christ crucified, and the message here is self seeking and law ( which was Israels error to stumble at Christ without the faith)..

    Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
    12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
    13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
    14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

    1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
    4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
    5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
  6. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    Post 135.

    LoveGodsword: "Happy Sabbath sis! "

    Yes, we know very well your whole doctrine and purpose is to assert your own beliefs, that sabbath keeping is scriptual, and even that it is law to yourselves.

    Jesus made it clear enough:

    John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
    17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

    John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

    The handwriting of the letter, was taken out of the way, it is not of faith, it kills, the law of sin and death ended, the law of faith began.

    That also is the devil destroyed, as the devil was over death ( in the law of the curse) and there is no more curse, but others are cursed children still under the law and still under the curse of the law, without faith in Christ risen in us..

    Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
    15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
  7. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

    United Kingdom
    We can't be justified by our own works.

    God has given us his Son, the way to be forgiven and reconciled to him. Jesus is salvation and justifies us before God - he alone; nothing else.
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    So what scripture did you share that disagrees with anything that I have posted here? - Nothing. God's 10 commandments are not contained in ordinances. They were written with the finger of God on two tables of stone. Happy to discuss your interpretation of the scriptures you have provided in detail though showing why. Are you interested?
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    You have provided a false interpretation of the scriptures. Are you interested in discussing the detail with me showing why from the scriptures?
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  10. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    LoveGodsword: "God's 10 commandments are not contained in ordinances. They were written with the finger of God on two tables of stone."

    The law of commandments, is abolished, they were contained in ordinances, they were abolished on the cross of Christ.

    That is what is replaced, exactly what was written in tables of stone, which is the law contained in ordinances..

    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

    Then the Spirit, takes out those tables of stone, this is why it is WRITTEN ABOVE, IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART, AS GOD GAVE US AN HEART OF FLESH, REMOVING THE STONY TABLES.

    Next, we remember the ordinances that Paul delivered us, which also are the commandments of Christ..

    Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
    20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

    1 Corinthians 11: Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
    2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

    1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  11. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    LoveGodsword: "You have provided a false interpretation of the scriptures."

    Yes I can provide more false interpretation.

    The message was told for you, LovesGodsword, 2000 years ago, how you are told to all speak the same thing, to not be divisions among the believers, but to be joined together in the same mind ( of Christ)

    But it was declared even then, of the divisions, and contentions, some say they are of this, and some of that, but Christ is not divided, nobody else was crucified for us....

    1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    1 Corinthians 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
    12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
    13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

    But, just as Apostle Paul could not speak unto them as spiritual, so it is the same now.

    They are carnal when they make divisions, and join in separation.

    Your whole doctrine is separation, pushing the law, and revealing your agenda is seventh day worship. I have never been divided, I do not support anyone but Christ, and you are divided, and do support your own particular doctrine, so must defend it, even if it is a false interpretation of scripture..

    1 Corinthians 3:And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
    2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
    3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
    4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
  12. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    Two considerations, and even more if you remember everybody else's doctrine of divisions in this while world.

    But these two for now, is Sabbath and the law ended, or does it continue in faith ?

    In the Levitical priesthood, the Sabbath was important, but there was a change of both the priesthood and the High Priest and the law.

    The law made nothing perfect ( Sabbath keeping was while under a curse, it did nothing at all therefore....

    Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

    Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
    19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

    We understand the bringing in of the better hope made all perfect ( Jesus did not teach at all about the Sabbath to be included to be doing perfectly, but even resisted against Israel who defended the Sabbath and Jesus not keeping it)

    But this High Priest became us ( we are in the priesthood) to be holy, by being harmless, undefiled...

    Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

    The new covenant occurs when the old one decays, and vanishes away, it is when our sins are forgiven through the faith of Christ..

    Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    The first covenant had this fault, it made no conscience perfect.

    Now the spotless blood of Christ purges the ( dead) conscience to serve the LIVING GOD..

    Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

    Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    Then the drawback again, the comers never could be perfect, their conscience still remembers sins, and still had evil conscience therefore.

    Then the sacrifice of Christ perfects forever in sanctification, and all goes into the heart, as the heart has a good conscience now..

    Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
    2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
    3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

    Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
    15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    Now we draw near to God with that true heart, it is the faith, and our hearts are sprinkled from the evil conscience, and washed with pure water ( by the Word of Christ in our heart)..

    Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
    23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

    This is the difference between the ordinances of men, and the ordinances of Heaven, it is now written in the heart which is conscience ( that is the Holy Ghost) and our conscience bears witness, and the END OF THE COMMANDMENTS IS CHARITY OUT OF A PURE HEART AND OF A GOOD CONSCIENCE, BUT THEY GOING ABOUT TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, HAVE NOT SUBMITTED THEMSELVES UNTO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD, FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES....

    Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

    1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

    Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
    4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Man now believes with that heart and conscience, to righteousness ( all that Christ did, not the Sabbath, or the law, but laying His life down and the kindness of God and longsuffering, all are not of the law at all) But Israel polluted the Sabbaths, and worshipped Idols, and God gave them statutes not good, and judgments whereby they do not live ( which is the love of God in them/that good conscience/ the Holy Spirit) nobody lives by Sabbaths, they live by laying their life down for others , just as baptism is the answer of a good conscience to God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ ( now the Sabbath keepers can try to answer how their rule keeping is the Gospel of Jesus Christ)..

    Ezekiel 20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
    25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
  13. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

    Previously addressed. . .didn't you already send this?
  14. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    Clare: "Previously addressed. . .didn't you already send this?"

    Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
  15. GFGFGF

    GFGFGF Member

    United States
    Who taught you this and why do you believe it?
  16. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    GF: "Who taught you this and why do you believe it?"

    Who taught you this:

    Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

    Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
  17. GFGFGF

    GFGFGF Member

    United States
    Jesus is the only one who teaches me.
    Did He write the book of Hebrews?
  18. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    "Jesus is the only one who teaches me.
    Did He write the book of Hebrews?"

    There are many called Jesus, and some no doubt are teachers.

    Jesus Christ saved the Hebrews out of Egypt, and all that is written in the book of the scriptures is what Christ did for the Hebrews.

    God has given us the words that cannot be added to or took, from, I wonder if you know that. ( muslims don't know that)

    Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
  19. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    GF: "What does any of this have to do with me?"

    Some scripture is given and talked about, and if you ask what that has got to do with anything, here is the answer given for us..

    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
  20. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    This again is non-responsive to my posts, scriptures and questions that were not previously addressed by you. Didn't you already post this? If you disagree please show me where you previously addressed post # 85 linked; post # 86 linked; post # 148 linked and post # 152 linked. If you can't why pretend that you did?
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021