Sin...?

[Clare73]

Non responsive to my questions.

Agreed. . .

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Agreed. . .

No problem if you do not want to discuss the scriptures shared with you that disagree with your teachings and the questions asked of you of course you do not have to if you do not want to. I will leave it between you and God.

Take Care

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I think this is the point people get confused on. Love is expressed in obedience to God's law not by breaking Gods' law. This is what Jesus is saying in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3. According to the scriptures if we break Gods' law we are still "under the law" according to Romans 3:19-20 guilty of sin and sin according to John and those who knowingly practice sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:4-10; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:2-3; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.

Amen! I think it comes down to some people trying to justify doing what they want instead of the will of God. God’s commandments are not meant to be burdensome and many confuse God’s law with the law of Moses. God’s law expresses the very character of our Savior -holy-righteous, pure, love, spiritual-true, just, unchangeable personally written by God and stored in the Most holy of God’s Temple. The devil has done a good job deceiving so many people into believing that God’s laws are no longer required despite clear scripture stating the opposite like you referenced in your post.

Psalms 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God, And Your law is within my heart.”

Happy Sabbath brother!

 

[Clare73]

No problem if you do not want to discuss the scriptures shared with you that disagree with your teachings and the questions asked of you of course you do not have to if you do not want to. I will leave it between you and God.

Take Care

Red herring. . .previously addressed.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Previously addressed. . .

What did you address in post # 85 linked and post # 86 linked?

 

[Clare73]

Amen! I think it comes down to some people trying to justify doing what they want instead of the will of God. God’s commandments are not meant to be burdensome and many confuse God’s law with the law of Moses. God’s law expresses the very character of our Savior -holy-righteous, pure, love, spiritual-true, just, unchangeable personally written by God and stored in the Most holy of God’s Temple. The devil has done a good job deceiving so many people into believing that God’s laws are no longer required despite clear scripture stating the opposite like you referenced in your post.

Psalms 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God, And Your law is within my heart.”

Happy Sabbath brother!

Red herring. . .

I don't need a commandment to tell me to help my neighbor who is hungry.

Have you got one?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Red herring. . .

Why was what @SabbathBlessings wrote a red herring in your view Claire?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I don't need a commandment to tell me to help my neighbor who is hungry. Have you got one?

Clare, how do you know what sin is when the purpose of the law is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken or righteousness is when obeyed? *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. Do you love your neighbor by lying or stealing from them or committing adultery with their spouse or killing them? -James 2:8-12. Gods' love is expressed through obedience to God's law not by breaking it *Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; James 2:8-12 and 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 2:3-4. If we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the scripture we stand before God guilty of breaking all of them according to James in James 2:10-11. Love is therefore not separate to God's law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and is why Jesus says on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40.

 

[Clare73]

Why was what SabbathBlessings wrote a red herring in your view Claire?

See post #146.

I don't need a commandment to tell me to help my neighbor who is hungry.
Have you got one?

How do you know what sin is

Non-responsive to my question.

You'll have to take up your question with Jesus and Paul, they made the rule (Matthew 22:37-40; Romans 13:8-10), not me. You issue is with them.

I'm not the one who said "love fulfills the law." (Romans 13:10)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Clare, how do you know what sin is when the purpose of the law is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken or righteousness is when obeyed? *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. Do you love your neighbor by lying or stealing from them or committing adultery with their spouse or killing them? -James 2:8-12. Gods' love is expressed through obedience to God's law not by breaking it *Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; James 2:8-12 and 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 2:3-4. If we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the scripture we stand before God guilty of breaking all of them according to James in James 2:10-11. Love is therefore not separate to God's law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and is why Jesus says on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40.

Your response here...

Non-responsive ... You'll have to take that up with Jesus and Paul, they made the rule (Matthew 22:37-40; Romans 13:8-10), not me. You issue is with them. I'm not the one who said "love fulfills the law." (Romans 13:10)

Non-responsive to my posts and scriptures shared with you. Micro quoting a small part of my post out of context does not really help the discussion here. What is it in the above post that you are quoting from that you disagree with?

 

[Clare73]

Why was what @SabbathBlessings wrote a red herring in your view Claire?

Your response here...

Non-responsive to my posts and scriptures shared with you and you did not ask me any questions

Review post #149.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Review post #149.

None of which addresses anything that I have been sharing with you from the scriptures in my posts to you (see post # 85 linked and post # 86 linked and post # 148 linked). What is it in the posts that I have been sharing with you that you disagree with? Can you show me what it is that I have posted to you that you disagree with and show why you disagree from the scriptures? If you cannot what is your argument? - You have none.

According to the scriptures Love (the Spirit of the law from the heart) is not separate from God's law (10 commandments). Love is expressed in obedience to God' law resulting in the fulfilling of the letter of the law". Therefore ""Love is not separate from God's law it is expressed in obedience to God' law. This is actually expressed in the very scriptures you provided in your post in Matthew 22:36-40 and Romans 13:8-10 and also in James 2:8-12 and in 1 John 5:2-3 as shown below...

Matthew 22:36-40 [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Jesus is not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets which is what Gods' Word says that are not my words but Gods' Word which have been simply repeated to you verbatim. Paul agrees with Jesus when he says...

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED [*G4134] THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS (or what this means), THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, NAMELY THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOUR SELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the FULFILLING [*G4138] OF THE LAW

*G4134 "FULFILLED" πληρόω (plēróō) means to complete of to execute and to accomplished and fulfilled applied to past tense when one loves another.
*G4138 "FULFILLING" πλήρωμα (plḗrōma) present tense verb means to keeping or to completing

The context of Romans 13:8 if we love our neighbor we fulfill or keep the commandments. Paul continues... "FOR THIS" and shows that if we love our neighbor as our self we will keep those commandments that are our duty of love to our neighbor by obeying God's 10 commandments.

I think what you may be also missing here is that the scripture that Jesus Paul and James quote in "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is old testament scripture and both the two great commandments quoted by Jesus being to "Love God with all of our heart soul and mind and our neighbor as thyself" is found in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 which were used throughout the old and new testament for summing up God's 10 commandments which show us how to love God and our fellow man. This is why Paul is saying in Romans 13:8-10 that those commandments in God's 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our neighbor are "SUMMED UP" *Romans 13:9 in loving our neighbor as our self.

Paul is agreeing with Jesus and not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that love is expressed in obedience to Gods law and says that if we love another we will obey those commandments in God's 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us how we are to love our fellow man by quoting those commandments verbatim. Paul is showing that to love our neighbor as our self is simply summing up those commandments in God's law that show us how we are to love our fellow man. These once again are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures. James also agrees with Jesus and Paul where he says...

James 2:8-12 [8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:[9], But IF YOU HAVE RESPECT TO PERSONS, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James agrees with Jesus and Paul where he links loving our neighbor as our self to obedience to all those commandments in Gods 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us our duty of love to our neighbor. Once again these are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures verbatim. John also agrees with Jesus Paul and James where he says...

1 John 5:2-3 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3], FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

.........................

Jesus did not fulfill the law so that we no longer have to. Jesus fulfilled the law because he is our example and we are to follow him *1 Peter 2:21. He also kept the law perfectly to be Gods' sinless sacrifice for the sins of the world because the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's Grace (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-31). If God's law in the new covenant is abolished than Jesus would not have had to die for our sins. This is a teaching of lawlessness (without law) and is a false teaching that has led many away from God and His Word. According to the scriptures without holiness (that comes from God - Philippines 2:13) no man can see God *Hebrews 12:14 and unless a man is born again into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. According to Jesus Gods' salvation is from sin *John 8:31-36 not a license to continue to live a life of known unrepentant sin. If we live a life of sin we are in danger of the judgement according to Paul in Hebrews 10:26-31 and the wages of sin is death *Romans 6:23.

Take Care.

 

[Neogaia777]

So, what do I (still) have to say about people and their sin in general or in conclusion...?

It/they maybe might might matter, etc...?

There are always some exceptions to any rule, which is where maybe the written law on pieces of paper or tablet or stone, fail to do anything true justice, etc...

Maybe we would like to discuss the terms of when maybe it might maybe would or wouldn't, or might not maybe have would or wouldn't, etc...?

When and when not it would either matter or not matter so much, etc...?

Sin, etc...?

But I will not play God at any time during this discussion, etc...

Which is where some of the rest of you fall short, etc...

But and/or anyway...?

Discuss...?

God Bless!

 

[Clare73]

None of which addresses anything that I have been sharing with you from the scriptures in my posts to you (see post # 85 linked and post # 86 linked and post # 148 linked). What is it in the posts that I have been sharing with you that you disagree with? Can you show me what it is that I have posted to you that you disagree with and show why you disagree from the scriptures? If you cannot what is your argument? - You have none.

According to the scriptures Love (the Spirit of the law from the heart) is not separate from God's law (10 commandments). Love is expressed in obedience to God' law resulting in the fulfilling of the letter of the law". Therefore ""Love is not separate from God's law it is expressed in obedience to God' law. This is actually expressed in the very scriptures you provided in your post in Matthew 22:36-40 and Romans 13:8-10 and also in James 2:8-12 and in 1 John 5:2-3 as shown below...

Matthew 22:36-40 [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Jesus is not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets which is what Gods' Word says that are not my words but Gods' Word which have been simply repeated to you verbatim. Paul agrees with Jesus when he says...

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED [*G4134] THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS (or what this means), THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, NAMELY THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOUR SELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the FULFILLING [*G4138] OF THE LAW

*G4134 "FULFILLED" πληρόω (plēróō) means to complete of to execute and to accomplished and fulfilled applied to past tense when one loves another.
*G4138 "FULFILLING" πλήρωμα (plḗrōma) present tense verb means to keeping or to completing

The context of Romans 13:8 if we love our neighbor we fulfill or keep the commandments. Paul continues... "FOR THIS" and shows that if we love our neighbor as our self we will keep those commandments that are our duty of love to our neighbor by obeying God's 10 commandments.

I think what you may be also missing here is that the scripture that Jesus Paul and James quote in "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is old testament scripture and both the two great commandments quoted by Jesus being to "Love God with all of our heart soul and mind and our neighbor as thyself" is found in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 which were used throughout the old and new testament for summing up God's 10 commandments which show us how to love God and our fellow man. This is why Paul is saying in Romans 13:8-10 that those commandments in God's 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our neighbor are "SUMMED UP" *Romans 13:9 in loving our neighbor as our self.

Paul is agreeing with Jesus and not saying that love is separate from God's law he is says that love is expressed in obedience to Gods law and says that if we love another we will obey those commandments in God's 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us how we are to love our fellow man by quoting those commandments verbatim. Paul is showing that to love our neighbor as our self is simply summing up those commandments in God's law that show us how we are to love our fellow man. These once again are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures. James also agrees with Jesus and Paul where he says...

James 2:8-12 [8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:[9], But IF YOU HAVE RESPECT TO PERSONS, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James agrees with Jesus and Paul where he links loving our neighbor as our self to obedience to all those commandments in Gods 10 commandments (letter of the law) that show us our duty of love to our neighbor. Once again these are God's Word not my words which have only been repeated to you from the scriptures verbatim. John also agrees with Jesus Paul and James where he says...

1 John 5:2-3 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3], FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

.........................

Jesus did not fulfill the law so that we no longer have to. Jesus fulfilled the law because he is our example and we are to follow him *1 Peter 2:21. He also kept the law perfectly to be Gods' sinless sacrifice for the sins of the world because the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's Grace (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-31). If God's law in the new covenant is abolished than Jesus would not have had to die for our sins. This is a teaching of lawlessness (without law) and is a false teaching that has led many away from God and His Word. According to the scriptures without holiness (that comes from God - Philippines 2:13) no man can see God *Hebrews 12:14 and unless a man is born again into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. According to Jesus Gods' salvation is from sin *John 8:31-36 not a license to continue to live a life of known unrepentant sin. If we live a life of sin we are in danger of the judgement according to Paul in Hebrews 10:26-31 and the wages of sin is death *Romans 6:23.

Take Care.

Previously addressed. . .

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Previously addressed. . .

Non-response = not addressed. If you do not want to discuss the posts and scriptures shared with you that you have not addressed just say so. You do not have to if you do not want to.

Take Care

 

[Clare73]

Non response = not addressed. If you do not want to discuss the posts and scriptures shared with you that you have never addressed just say so. You do not have to if you do not want to.

Previously addressed. . .

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Previously addressed. . .

A non-response = not addressed. Anyhow as posted earlier if you do not want to talk about the posts and scriptures that have been shared with you that disagree with your teachings you do not have to if you do not want to. I have done my part. I will leave it between you and God.

Take Care

 

[Neogaia777]

So, what do I (still) have to say about people and their sin in general or in conclusion...?

It/they maybe might might matter, etc...?

There are always some exceptions to any rule, which is where maybe the written law on pieces of paper or tablet or stone, fail to do anything true justice, etc...

Maybe we would like to discuss the terms of when maybe it might maybe would or wouldn't, or might not maybe have would or wouldn't, etc...?

When and when not it would either matter or not matter so much, etc...?

Sin, etc...?

But I will not play God at any time during this discussion, etc...

Which is where some of the rest of you fall short, etc...

But and/or anyway...?

Discuss...?

God Bless!

If all the exceptions to every rule were to be all fully written down, etc, using words, etc, the whole of the entire earth, and maybe even possibly heavens, could not or would not be able to fully contain them all, etc...

This is where the letter fails, etc, and is why it has to be "written" on our "hearts", etc...

Which might sometimes have to go against the letter sometimes, etc...

Because it is where the letter falls and fails, etc...

God Bless!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If all the exceptions to every rule were to be all fully written down, etc, using words, etc, the whole of the entire earth, and maybe even possibly heavens, could not or would not be able to fully contain them all, etc...

This is where the letter fails, etc, and is why it has to be "written" on our "hearts", etc...

Which might sometimes have to go against the letter sometimes, etc...

Because it is where the letter falls and fails, etc...

God Bless!

The letter comes before faith (Romans 10:17). Therefore the letter leads us to the Spirit and the Spirit fulfills (obeys) the letter through faith that works by love. This is also called righteousness by faith. According to the scriptures however faith does not abolish Gods law it establishes Gods' law *Romans 3:31. This is where many get mixed up. If we break the letter of the law we are not keeping the Spirit of the law according to Paul in Romans 13:8-10; Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3.

Take Care.

 

[Neogaia777]

The letter comes before faith (Romans 10:17). Therefore the letter leads us to the Spirit and the Spirit fulfills (obeys) the letter through faith that works by love. The is also called righteousness by faith. According to the scriptures however faith does not abolish Gods law it establishes Gods' law *Romans 3:31. This is where many get mixed up. If we break the letter of the law we are not keeping the Spirit of the law *Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; James 2:8-12 and 1 John 5:2-3.

Take Care.

Well, were not keeping either one "perfectly", etc, not the Spirit or the Letter, for the Spirit is even more strict, etc, only was able to choose only Jesus, and not like He had with other people in the OT, therefore keeping and/or fulfilling both laws, etc...

But we are not ever keeping either one perfectly, which is why we need/needed Jesus, etc, and if you don't have that at the core of your self/identity/beliefs, then I would have to maybe question, almost all of your claims, etc...

Since that "atonement", or whatever you want to call it, that trading of places, by grace alone this was done and/or accomplished "for you", etc, and that it both was and still is, very, very much needed for you even now today, everyday, etc, anyway, I might seriously question whether you were even truly one of Christ's or not to ever even begin with, etc...

Not saying you LGW, for I like to let every man define that for himself, etc... But just that, without this realization, etc...? Without living with it, etc...? That it took Jesus for you, etc, and does still does sometimes, etc, and maybe a lot of a lot of the time, etc...

Then but and/or anyway...

God Bless!