Sin is...

[Hammster]

No sin was UNCONDITIONALLY forgiven by Christ on the cross. If such were the case, then every single individual would unconditionally be saved. Yet those who CONDITIONALLY, continually obey Christ [Hebrews 5:9] sins have been 'nailed to the cross'

I guess Paul had it all wrong.

13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. - Colossians 2:13-14

 

[Aseyesee]

God gave man free will and allows man to use that gift. Therefore God did not cause man to do anything against man's will. So God is not the author of sin nor culpable for man's choices/actions.

(Let me say, this is not a blame game to me, it's a more of a to what end game ... so)

Nevertheless, he planted the tree, and issued a command he already knew could not be kept.

If someone puts a loaded gun in a baby's crib, and the baby kills itself, who would the blame fall on ...

 

[TheSeabass]

I guess Paul had it all wrong.

13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. - Colossians 2:13-14

---It does not say Christ has forgiven all our trespasses UNCONDTIONALLY. Those Colossians were conditionally baptized for remission of sins, verses 11,12.

---what Christ nailed to the cross here is the OT law of Moses taking it out of the way making it inactive, ineffective with its requirement of flawless law keeping in order to be justified. Paul is proving one can be freed from sin without obedience to the OT law with its required fleshly circumcision but one can be freed from sin by a spiritual circumcision "made without hands" when God cuts away the body of sin when one CONDITIONALLY submits himself to God in water baptism.

 

[Hammster]

---It does not say Christ has forgiven all our trespasses UNCONDTIONALLY. Those Colossians were conditionally baptized for remission of sins, verses 11,12.

---what Christ nailed to the cross here is the OT law of Moses taking it out of the way making it inactive, ineffective with its requirement of flawless law keeping in order to be justified. Paul is proving one can be freed from sin without obedience to the OT law with its required fleshly circumcision but one can be freed from sin by a spiritual circumcision "made without hands" when God cuts away the body of sin when one submits himself to God in water baptism.

The debt was nailed to the cross.

 

[TheSeabass]

(Let me say, this is not a blame game to me, it's a more of a to what end game ... so)

Nevertheless, he planted the tree, and issued a command he already knew could not be kept.

If someone puts a loaded gun in a baby's crib, and the baby kills itself, who would the blame fall on ...

Foreknowledge does not require predetermination.

Was God or Adam culpable for the sin committed in the garden of Eden?

 

[TheSeabass]

The debt was nailed to the cross.

In the context it was the "handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us" that was nailed to the cross. It was the law of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross.

 

[Hammster]

In the context it was the "handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us" that was nailed to the cross. It was the law of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) nailed to the cross.

He forgave all our trespasses by canceling the record of debt.

So, were all of our trespasses forgiven? Yes? No?

 

[Aseyesee]

Foreknowledge does not require predetermination.

Was God or Adam culpable for the sin committed in the garden of Eden?

Like Jesus said, if I had not said they would have had no sin; if God had not said ...

God declares the end from the beginning as something that is predetermined, anything less is a God whose omnipotent's has limits that are not self imposed.

Within the frame of Adam, Adam sinned, within the frame God, there is no such thing as sin.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

He forgave all our trespasses by canceling the record of debt.

So, were all of our trespasses forgiven? Yes? No?

When we KNOW (become single of eye, blind that we can see) the Truth of who we are IN Christ, no sin remains. Which all comes back (reconciled) to the garden, Adam was One, deep sleep and a wound in his side became two and had a change of perspective/eye sight.

"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ"

"Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

 

[TheSeabass]

He forgave all our trespasses by canceling the record of debt.

So, were all of our trespasses forgiven? Yes? No?

All of mankinds sins were not unconditionally forgiven by Christ dying on the cross.

 

[TheSeabass]

Like Jesus said, if I had not said they would have had no sin; if God had not said ...

God declares the end from the beginning as something that is predetermined, anything less is a God whose omnipotent's has limits that are not self imposed.

Within the frame of Adam, Adam sinned, within the frame God, there is no such thing as sin.

So you are holding God accountable for Adam's sin? God is the sinner, not Adam?

 

[Hammster]

All of mankinds sins were not unconditionally forgiven by Christ dying on the cross.

I agree. I'm Reformed. But that's not what I asked.

 

[Aseyesee]

So you are holding God accountable for Adam's sin? God is the sinner, not Adam?

You need to re-read my post ... the answer for that is in there.

Simple yes or no question ... Do you believe God knew the end before he ever started?

 

[TheSeabass]

You need to re-read my post ... the answer for that is in there.

Simple yes or no question ... Do you believe God knew the end before he ever started?

Yes, God foreknows what will happen in the future, but in my post I said foreknowledge does not demand, require predetermination.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Christ did NOT do away with ALL law for if there were no law at all then there would be no sin, yet people sin so there is a law we are under today that being Christ's NT law.

The "law" Christ freed us from is the OT law of Moses for under that law the only way one could be completely justified was by flawless keeping of all that law perfectly. Yet men sin making totally justification under that OT law virtually impossible. Therefore under Christ's NT law man has been freed from the requirement of perfect sinlessness in order to be justified but needs a simple obedient faith in being justified for God will forgive those that obediently repent.

For man to be saved, he is accountable to obeying the NT law, the gospel of Christ 2 Thessalonians 1:8 so there is no unconditional eternal security under Christ's NT law.

People sin because they are under law. Just because they sin does not mean Jesus has not set us free from the law.

God did not create man a moral being. That is the perfect will of God. That is why He prohibited the knowledge of good and evil (kge). So man was created naked.

 

[Si_monfaith]

and without Judas ...

You can complete the statement so I can understand the idea.

 

[TheSeabass]

I agree. I'm Reformed. But that's not what I asked.

You asked (in blue)

He forgave all our trespasses by canceling the record of debt.

So, were all of our trespasses forgiven? Yes? No?

1) Christ's death on the cross did not unconditionally forgive ANYONE's treaspasses.

2) when you use the word "our" I will assume you are referring to the group called "Christian". In this case, one must CONDITIONALLY obey the gospel and become a Christian to have all the trespasses he has committed forgiven. Then this Christian must continue to walk in the light to have all future sins cleansed away by the blood of Christ, 1 John 1:7.

 

[Si_monfaith]

No sin was UNCONDITIONALLY forgiven by Christ on the cross. If such were the case, then every single individual would unconditionally be saved. Yet those who CONDITIONALLY, continually obey Christ [Hebrews 5:9] sins have been 'nailed to the cross'

The atonement was only for the elect.

Isaiah 53:12

"and he bare the sin of many"

 

[TheSeabass]

People sin because they are under law. Just because they sin does not mean Jesus has not set us free from the law.

The fact people sin is proof they are under law and in our case today we are under the NT law of Christ as was Paul 1 Corinthians 9:21. And trespassing of this law is sin.

So men have been set free from the bondage of the OT law of Moses but are under law to Christ.

God did not create man a moral being. That is the perfect will of God. That is why He prohibited the knowledge of good and evil (kge). So man was created naked.

..and the point here is?

 

[TheSeabass]

.... there is no such thing as sin.

This is not to be found in the bible at all.

Either God or Adam was culpable for Adam sinning.