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Sin is...

JIMINZ

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Romans 2:6-10
2 Corinthians 5:10
Man will face the consequence for his deeds, good or bad.
.
Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

1Jn 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.


1Jn 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:

1Jn 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil;

1Jn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
 
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JIMINZ

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Christ did NOT do away with ALL law for if there were no law at all then there would be no sin, yet people sin so there is a law we are under today that being Christ's NT law.

The "law" Christ freed us from is the OT law of Moses for under that law the only way one could be completely justified was by flawless keeping of all that law perfectly. Yet men sin making totally justification under that OT law virtually impossible. Therefore under Christ's NT law man has been freed from the requirement of perfect sinlessness in order to be justified but needs a simple obedient faith in being justified for God will forgive those that obediently repent.

For man to be saved, he is accountable to obeying the NT law, the gospel of Christ 2 Thessalonians 1:8 so there is no unconditional eternal security under Christ's NT law.
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The Law has been written in our hearts, having been fulfilled in Christ.
 
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JIMINZ

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But they did sin and God's perfect justice does not allow sin to go unpunished...no unconditional eternal security for the Christian that will not repent of his sins...and the wages of sin is (spiritual) death.
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Do you have any idea as to what your talking about?
 
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JIMINZ

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Christ intercession is profitable for those that obey Christ, Hebrews 5:9. Those that will not have an obedient faith fail to take advantage of what Christ did for them on the cross. Christ did not die so man can live unconditionally, impenitently in sin yet still be saved. No cheap grace.
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How can we not obey Him, if we are IN Him?

Rom, 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
 
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JIMINZ

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---It does not say Christ has forgiven all our trespasses UNCONDTIONALLY. Those Colossians were conditionally baptized for remission of sins, verses 11,12.

---what Christ nailed to the cross here is the OT law of Moses taking it out of the way making it inactive, ineffective with its requirement of flawless law keeping in order to be justified. Paul is proving one can be freed from sin without obedience to the OT law with its required fleshly circumcision but one can be freed from sin by a spiritual circumcision "made without hands" when God cuts away the body of sin when one CONDITIONALLY submits himself to God in water baptism.
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Would you please stop using the words Unconditionally, and Conditionally in trying to make your point, they are not in any of the Texts, and by your adding them, you are adding a sort of stipulation not in the Texts, therefore you, do not understand what your reading.
 
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JIMINZ

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Nothing was taken out of context nor did you prove such. Not in any context ever did Paul say anyone's sins are forgiven unconditionally. Such an idea is being read into the contexts.
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No Paul did not, the word Unconditionally is yours.
 
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St_Worm2

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Sin of choosing the law is what Adam & Eve did.

Genesis 2
15 The LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

Genesis 3
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’ ”
4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

Genesis 3
8 They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?”
10 He said, “I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.”
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?


Romans 5
14 Death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

God gave Adam and Eve a single commandment to obey, so "don't eat that apple" was the only law in existence* from then until the time of Moses. Unfortunately for them, AND US, our first parents chose to transgress that commandment by doing the one thing God told them (directly and specifically) not to do :doh:

So their sin wasn't "choosing" the law, rather, their sin was "breaking" the law. IOW, they trespassed the direct commandment of God to them, something that no one would be able to do again until God gave Moses the Torah nearly 2,000 years later.
Thereafter people sin by violating the law.
Right, once there were additional laws to violate/transgress after the time of Moses.
Sins are not imputed for those who know they are set free from the law (Romans 5:13).
Sins were not imputed from Adam to Moses because there were no direct commandments given to mankind between the one commandment He gave Adam/Eve in the Garden and the Torah which He gave to Moses.

Just to be clear, our sins are most certainly imputed to our accounts today, UNLESS we are Christians. The sins Christians commit are imputed to the Savior's account instead, to the One who atoned for our sins/paid the price for our transgressions on the Cross. In doing so, He became sin for/because of us so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him :amen:

2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Yours and His,
David


"Through one man sin entered into the
world, and death through sin"

Romans 5:12

*(just FYI, the law of conscience, IOW, the law that God writes on our hearts at birth .. that gives us a sense of right and wrong .. was in effect between the times of Adam and Moses, and it is by this "law" that the men of old, as well all others outside of Christ who do not know the Law of Moses, will be judged at the end of the age .. Romans 2:12-16)
 
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jimmyjimmy

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No sin was UNCONDITIONALLY forgiven by Christ on the cross. If such were the case, then every single individual would unconditionally be saved. Yet those who CONDITIONALLY, continually obey Christ [Hebrews 5:9] sins have been 'nailed to the cross'

Not only would no orthodox Protestant denomination agree with the above, even the RCC would not even agree with that statement.
 
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Si_monfaith

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"The law" in Romans 5:13 is referring to the OT law of Moses. It is not referring to Christ's NT law which Paul himself said he was under, 1 Corinthians 9:21. Paul is pointing out in Rom 5:13 that even before the law of Moses was given there was sin in the world which means before the law of Moses (time between Adam & Moses) there was some law in effect which is generally referred to as the Patriarchal Law. If there were no law before the Law of Moses then sin could not be imputed to those that lived prior to the law of Moses for again if there were no law there would be no sin. But since people did sin prior to the law of Moses there must have been a law that existed.

Christ's NT law is not "obey and be blessed. Disobey and be cursed". Instead it is, "love others because you are blessed only by the righteousness of Jesus on the cross".

Nakedness is a violation of the law. But God created them naked. It was the knowledge of good and evil which created guilt. God never created them as moral beings.
 
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Si_monfaith

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There is mutiple ways to see it (in picture form), God played his part, as Adam played his, Judas played his part as God played his; a beginning and an end, in the person of God, as the reality that he purposed in himself.

Parts are played not by humans or satan or angels but either by sin or by the grace of God given through His Son. Romans 5:21
 
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Si_monfaith

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He pays, or removes sin by being all in all, one who who both wills and does of his good pleasure in us, which like Jesus becomes who we are.

Yes, we are not free. His grace rules us and works through us 1 Corinthians 15:10.
 
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Si_monfaith

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Genesis 2
15 The LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

Genesis 3
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’ ”
4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

Genesis 3
8 They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?”
10 He said, “I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself.”
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?


Romans 5
14 Death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

God gave Adam and Eve a single commandment to obey, so "don't eat that apple" was the only law in existence* from then until the time of Moses. Unfortunately for them, AND US, our first parents chose to transgress that commandment by doing the one thing God told them (directly and specifically) not to do :doh:

So their sin wasn't "choosing" the law, rather, their sin was "breaking" the law. IOW, they trespassed the direct commandment of God to them, something that no one would be able to do again until God gave Moses the Torah nearly 2,000 years later.

Right, once there were additional laws to violate/transgress after the time of Moses.

Sins were not imputed from Adam to Moses because there were no direct commandments given to mankind between the one commandment He gave Adam/Eve in the Garden and the Torah which He gave to Moses.

Just to be clear, our sins are most certainly imputed to our accounts today, UNLESS we are Christians. The sins Christians commit are imputed to the Savior's account instead, to the One who atoned for our sins/paid the price for our transgressions on the Cross. In doing so, He became sin for/because of us so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him :amen:

2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Yours and His,
David


"Through one man sin entered into the
world, and death through sin"

Romans 5:12

*(just FYI, the law of conscience, IOW, the law that God writes on our hearts at birth .. that gives us a sense of right and wrong .. was in effect between the times of Adam and Moses, and it is by this "law" that the men of old, as well all others outside of Christ who do not know the Law of Moses, will be judged at the end of the age .. Romans 2:12-16)

Romans 7

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
 
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Aseyesee

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Parts are played not by humans or satan or angels but either by sin or by the grace of God given through His Son. Romans 5:21

Another way of looking at the same thing ... why was it an imperative that Israel spend 400 years in Egypt? Or do you think that it was to no end that Judas was portrayed as the one who held the purse?
 
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Si_monfaith

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Who the son sets free ...

Son sets us free from the false idea that humans have a free will and helps us understand that we were created, saved and kept only because He has elected us by HIS will and not by our will or works.
 
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Aseyesee

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Son sets us free from the false idea that humans have a free will and helps us understand that we were created, saved and kept only because He has elected us by HIS will and not by our will or works.

There is a difference between the door that no man can open, and the door that no man can shut, as something relative to us; but it must be taken in the context of the whole book to begin to understand it.
 
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Si_monfaith

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There is a difference between the door that no man can open, and the door that no man can shut, as something relative to us; but it must be taken in the context of the whole book to begin to understand it.

Are you discussing about freewill or something else?
 
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Aseyesee

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Are you discussing about freewill or something else?

Who the son sets free has more to do with the revelation of the son we are as something freely given, as opposed to most people's concept of free will, which sin plays its role in, no less then a serpent does, and whose tail it is likened to.
 
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Alithis

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How can we not obey Him, if we are IN Him?

Rom, 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
We can not obey him by doing our own will instead Of his.
Be doesn't make us robots.
He makes us Free.
This means we have the true capacity of choice returned to us.

But if there is a practice of sin you can't break away from and forsake doing,then that person is not yet free .they are still a slave to sin awaiting the wage of it.

Once we repent Jesus forgives us through baptism, makes us new ..
The new we become is free from bondage to sin.
It does not mean we cannot do works of sin.it means we don't HAVE to.
But if we choose to..and keep choosing to
We serve sin..and become a slave again.
And there is no one who can die for us a second time.
Because Christ ,having been resurrected can NOT die.


So we need to live this new life very very very carefully.
 
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Aseyesee

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We can not obey him by doing our own will instead Of his.
Be doesn't make us robots.
He makes us Free.
This means we have the true capacity of choice returned to us.

But if there is a practice of sin you can't break away from and forsake doing,then that person is not yet free .they are still a slave to sin awaiting the wage of it.

Once we repent Jesus forgives us through baptism, makes us new ..
The new we become is free from bondage to sin.
It does not mean we cannot do works of sin.it means we don't HAVE to.
But if we choose to..and keep choosing to
We serve sin..and become a slave again.
And there is no one who can die for us a second time.
Because Christ ,having been resurrected can NOT die.


So we need to live this new life very very very carefully.

If you are not free indeed then the son has not set you free, is a concept of faith.
 
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