Sin is Lawlessness

[Jan001]

I am arguing in favor of obeying the Law of God, not just the Sabbath and dietary laws. I think you are referencing James 2:1-10, but that doesn't say that if you obey one of them, then you are required to obey them all. His point was that by break any of the Laws you become a lawbreaker, so he was encouraging them to obey the Law more consistently. The consequence of becoming a lawbreaker is that we need to repent and turn back to obedience. If a Christian loves Jesus, then they will keep his commandments, which were not his own, but that of the Father, which were given through the Mosaic Law.

God's natural laws existed before the Mosaic Law. Murder Genesis 4:8-10 and adultery Mark 10:1-12 and theft Genesis 31:29-31, etc., have always been lawlessness against God and neighbor. These natural laws are written on the consciences/hearts/minds of all people.


Paul's teaching to the Messianic Jews about the Gentiles/Greeks:

Romans 2:14-16
14 When Gentiles who have not the law (of Moses) do by nature what the law (of Moses) requires (Luke 10:27, Acts 10:1-4), they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law (of Moses). 15 They show that what the law (of Moses) requires (its essence) is written on their hearts (Luke 10:27), while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. rsv

Romans 1:18-21
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them (mankind), because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. rsv​

The Mosaic Law was given to the Israelites as a punishment for their idolatry in the desert. They received the Law of Moses along with its curses to train them in righteousness so that they should be good examples to their non-Israelite neighbors. The Israelites continually failed. They became like their pagan neighbors instead of making them converts to righteousness.

Galatians 3:10-14; 19-20; 23-27
For all who rely on works of the law (of Moses) are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law (of Moses), and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law (of Moses); for “He who through faith (Law of Christ) is righteous shall live”; 12 but the law (of Moses) does not rest on faith (Law of Christ), for “He who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law (of Moses), having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree”— 14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith......19 Why then the law (of Moses)? It was added because of transgressions (in the desert), till the offspring (Jesus Christ) should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one. .......23 Now before faith (Law of Christ) came, we were confined under the law (of Moses), kept under restraint until faith (Law of Christ) should be revealed. 24 So that the law (of Moses) was our custodian until Christ (and His Law) came, that we might be justified by faith (Law of Christ). 25 But now that faith (Law of Christ) has come, we are no longer under a custodian (Law of Moses); 26 for in Christ Jesus (under His Law) you are all sons of God, through faith (Law of Christ). 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. rsv
1 Corinthians 9:20-22
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law (of Moses) I became as one under the law (of Moses)—though not being myself under the law (of Moses)—that I might win those (Jews) under the law (of Moses). 21 To those (the Gentiles) outside the law (of Moses) I became as one (a Gentile) outside the law (of Moses)—not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ—that I might win those (the Gentiles) outside the law (of Moses). 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. rsv
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The essence of the Law of Moses and the essence of the Law of Christ is the following commandment:

Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law (of Moses)? How do you read (what is its essence)?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” rsv

Romans 7:6
But now we are discharged from the law (of Moses), dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code (Law of Moses) but in the new life of the Spirit (Law of Christ).

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[bugkiller]

Every person is judged by Jesus Christ as soon as he dies. John 14:6, John 5:22, 2 Corinthians 5:10

Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment, rsv​

Salvation is a life-long process. It is not a one-time event.

Christians do fall away from the faith. Many Christians who do fall away will not repent before they die.

Life-long Salvation Process:

Past tense:​

Romans 8:24
For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? rsv

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved) rsv


Present tense:​

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. rsv

2 Corinthians 2:15
For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, rsv
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Future tense:​

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But, since we belong to the day, let us be sober, and put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. rsv

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Matthew 10:22
and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. rsv

Acts 15:11
But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will. rsv

Romans 5:9
Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. rsv​

For a saved person to continue in his salvation until he dies, he must continue to do what Jesus told/commanded him to do until he dies. Jesus will not be the Lord and Savior of any person who does not obey His commands.

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? rsv

Matthew 7:20-23
“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ rsv​

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, 2 by which you are saved, if you hold it fast—unless you believed in vain. rsv

Revelation 2:2
“‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear evil men but have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not, and found them to be false; rsv

Luke 9:23
And he said to all, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. rsv

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; rsv

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed. rsv

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! rsv

Luke 8:13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. rsv

2 Peter 2:20
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. rsv

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Only the people who Jesus Christ judges to be worthy of eternal life are granted eternal life.

Luke 20:35
but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, rsv

2 Thessalonians 1:11
To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his call, and may fulfil every good resolve and work of faith by his power, rsv

Revelation 3:4
Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments (with their sins); and they shall walk with me in white, for they are worthy. rsv
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Salvation is a life-long process. It is not a one-time event.

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Hey you are pretty good, but....

No way is salvation a life long process. One is redeemed or not redeemed. If one does not really know until that fateful event salvation is not sure and there is really no hope. That is contrary to the Scripture.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Rom 4

17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil... Heb 6

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Heb 11

bugkiller

 

[listed]

A lawyer asked Jesus Christ, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" What did Jesus say to him?

Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lherord your God with all your heart, andt with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live (inherit eternal life).” rsv

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There's no provision for salvation (eternal life) to be found in the OT. Both testaments indicate no one has or can meet the requirements of the law.

A rich man asked Jesus Christ, ".....what good deed must I do, to have inherit eternal life?" What did Jesus answer him?

Matthew 19:16-23
16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have observed; what do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. 23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. rsv​

Again the Bible says no one can meet those requirements. Your example above bypasses the cross and blood of Jesus. Jesus gave a fool his required answer and it backfired on him. Jesus upheld the requirements of the law as a Jew. Jesus is God and the only human to meet those requirements. It qualified Him as the perfect sacrifice for sin. Without accepting substitutionary atonement there is none. Substitutionary atonement is taught through the sacrifice of the innocent for the guilty.

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Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” rsv

Therefore, the Holy Spirit is taken away from those who disobey Him. So become a slave to God and His righteousness, and thereby be approved to inherit eternal life after you die.

Your quoted verse is an abuse of Scripture making your conclusion error.

Romans 6:16
Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death (condemnation), or of obedience, which leads to righteousness (eternal life)? rsv


Titus 3:3-8
For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by men and hating one another; 4 but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, 6 which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life. 8 The saying is sure. I desire you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to apply themselves to good deeds; these are excellent and profitable to men. rsv
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Jesus saved us so that we can have hope of eternal life. Whether we actually do inherit eternal life depends on if we do what we should do and if we don't do what we shouldn't do.

How do you know this? You already said upon death a person is judged to be worthy or unworthy. That means to me a person can not know and is not redeemed. That throws out all hope.

There are many, many Christians who will not inherit eternal life. Jesus Christ is not the Lord of Christians who do not strive obey His commandments.

Those people aren't Christians. They may be very religious.

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?" rsv​

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ rsv

Spoken to the deceived pseudo christian. Religious inssitutions are full to over flowing with them.

Hebrews 10:26-30
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” rsv​

An Amen here is appropriate and granted.

1 John 2:1-5
My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: rsv

Yes the commandments of Jesus and not those given to Israel or religious institution.​

What happens to all these disobedient Christian liars if they do not repent of their sins before they die?

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.” rsv
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I do not expect to be approved to inherit eternal life by simply believing and trusting that Jesus Christ will save me. 2 Peter 1:3-8[/quote] Just don't read that as a requirement for eternal life. the only condition to be met is belief and acceptance of Jesus for eternal life. Thief on the cross is a prime example.

Unless I obey His commandments until I die, He will not approve me worthy to inherit eternal life.

Just more of the same above statements which the below can't conform. The Christian does have a transformed behavior which can be and is mimicked all the time deceiving many.

Matthew 10:37-39
He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it. rsv

Matthew 24:11-13
And many false prophets will arise and lead many (CHRISTIANS) astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most (CHRISTIAN'S) men’s love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures (in obedience to Jesus' commandments) to the end (of his life will be saved (approved to inherit eternal life). rsv​

What you say by the above quote almost cost me my soul.

2 Thessalonians 1:11
To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his call, and (that you) may fulfil every good resolve and work of faith by his power, rsv

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2 Thessalonians 1:5
This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering— rsv

Does your implied meaning here void Romans?

John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.". rsv

John 14:21
He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” rsv

Great verse. Don't see how it supports your argument.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test (of faithfulness/obedience to God's commandments until death) he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him. rsv​

Amen! I just don't see this as required works performance.

Matthew 7:19-20
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire (of hell). 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits. rsv

True.

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate (to heaven) is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life (eternal life in heaven), and those who find it are few. rsv

Yes Jesus is that gate. See John 10.

 

[Jan001]

Hey you are pretty good, but....

No way is salvation a life long process. One is redeemed or not redeemed. If one does not really know until that fateful event salvation is not sure and there is really no hope. That is contrary to the Scripture.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Rom 4

17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil... Heb 6

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Heb 11

bugkiller

You wrote: "No way is salvation a life long process. One is redeemed or not redeemed. If one does not really know until that fateful event salvation is not sure and there is really no hope. That is contrary to the Scripture."
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Unfortunately, we cannot know for certain if we are approved to inherit eternal life until after we die. A person's hope of eternal life is not his guarantee of eternal life.

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Because of Adam's disobedience, there was no hope for any person to ever enter into heaven to live with God. That is why the righteous Lazarus was in the part of Hades called the bosom of Abraham instead of in heaven with God. (The rich man was in the part of Hades called hell.) Luke 16:19-31

Because Jesus Christ died on the cross and redeemed mankind from Adam's sin, it is now possible for humans to enter into heaven to live with God after they die. Because Jesus Christ makes it possible for humans to enter into heaven to live with God after they die, a person can now have hope that he will be one of the people who will enter into heaven to live with God after he dies.

Jesus Christ's gift of grace/salvation/justification/reconciliation makes it possible for me to inherit eternal life and so therefore I hope to inherit/enter eternal life, but this does not mean that I will automatically inherit/enter it without any effort on my part.

I have not received all the things that I have ever hoped to receive; have you?

Titus 3:3-7
For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by men and hating one another; 4 but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, 6 which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life. rsv
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Jesus saved me by the washing away of my sins through the baptism that He commanded in Matthew 28:18-20, and because my sins were washed away through this baptism, God immediately gave me His Holy Spirit to live within me. This baptism of Jesus saved me and made me righteous/justified/reconciled with God. God's gift of justification/salvation, which I did not deserve or earn, gives me hope that I will inherit/enter eternal life after I die. 1 Corinthians 6:11

The fact that Jesus saved me when I was baptized does not guarantee that I will inherit eternal life after I die. I have to continue to be saved (continue in obedience to Jesus' commandments) until I die in order to be approved to inherit/enter into eternal life with God. Acts 14:21-23

Eternal life is promised to all who love Jesus. If a person still loves Jesus at the time of his death, he will then be approved to inherit/enter eternal life. Until a person dies, he will be tested by temptations/trials to determine if he is worthy to inherit/enter eternal life.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour (to cause him to disobey Jesus' commandments which thereby disqualifies him for eternal life). rsv​

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures trial (temptation), for when he has stood the test (refuses to sin mortal sins until his death) he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him. rsv

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! rsv

Galatians 6:7-9
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap (eternal life), if we do not lose heart (fall away). rsv

Matthew 24:9-13
Then they will deliver you (Christians) up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then many (Christians) will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many (Christians) astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s (Christians') love (obedience to Jesus' commandments) will grow cold. 13 But he who endures (loves/obeys Jesus) to the end (of his life) will be saved. rsv
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How does a person "love" Jesus "to the end of his life" so that he will then be approved to inherit eternal life? He "loves" Jesus "to the end of his life" by obeying His commandments until he dies.

John 14:21-23
He who has my commandments and keeps (obeys) them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep (obey) my word (commandments Luke 6:46), and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. rsv
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What name is a Christian called who claims to love Jesus, but fails to obey His commandments?

1 John 2:3-5
And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep (obey) his commandments. 4 He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps (obeys) his word (commandments), in him truly love for God is perfected. By this (our keeping of His commandments) we may be sure that we are in him: rsv
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If a Christian claims to know and love Jesus, but does not obey His commandments, his name is liar.

What happens to all liars after they die?

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death (eternal condemnation).” rsv
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All disobedient Christians/liars will receive eternal condemnation if they do not repent of their sins before they die.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous (unrepentant sinners) will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. rsv

Romans 5:2
Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand (because we are obedient to Jesus' commandments), and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God. rsv

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A Christian must obey Jesus' commandments until he dies if he desires to inherit eternal life. A Christian's hope of eternal life will become his reality if he is obedient to Jesus' commandments until he dies.

1 Peter 1:13-19
Therefore gird up your minds, be sober, set your hope fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; 16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 17 And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile. 18 You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your fathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. rsv




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[Jan001]

There's no provision for salvation (eternal life) to be found in the OT. Both testaments indicate no one has or can meet the requirements of the law.

Again the Bible says no one can meet those requirements. Your example above bypasses the cross and blood of Jesus. Jesus gave a fool his required answer and it backfired on him. Jesus upheld the requirements of the law as a Jew. Jesus is God and the only human to meet those requirements. It qualified Him as the perfect sacrifice for sin. Without accepting substitutionary atonement there is none. Substitutionary atonement is taught through the sacrifice of the innocent for the guilty.​

Your quoted verse is an abuse of Scripture making your conclusion error.How do you know this? You already said upon death a person is judged to be worthy or unworthy. That means to me a person can not know and is not redeemed. That throws out all hope.Those people aren't Christians. They may be very religious.Spoken to the deceived pseudo christian. Religious inssitutions are full to over flowing with them.

An Amen here is appropriate and granted.Yes the commandments of Jesus and not those given to Israel or religious institution.
Amen! I just don't see this as required works performance.True.​

Yes Jesus is that gate. See John 10.

Some Christians only believe/obey Jesus' commandments for a while. A person cannot lose his Christian belief (fall away from his faith) unless he already is a Christian believer.

Luke 8:13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe (obey) for a while and in time of temptation fall away (from the Christian faith through their disobedience Titus 1:16). rsv

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one (Christian) does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. rsv

Hebrews 10:26-30
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth (if we sin deliberately after we are saved and become Jesus' disciples), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins (Jesus' sacrifice no longer saves us), 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” rsv

2 Peter 2:20
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (if after they become Christians), they are again entangled in them and overpowered (they return to their former disobedience), the last state has become worse for them than the first (they will now receive greater punishment than they would have received if they had never believed). rsv

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; rsv

James 2:24
You see that a man is justified (saved) by (his) works and not by (his) faith alone. rsv

James 1:22
But be doers (obey) of the word (Jesus' commandments), and not hearers only, (instead of believing that His commandments don't matter for your salvation) deceiving yourselves. rsv

​

 

[bugkiller]

You wrote: "No way is salvation a life long process. One is redeemed or not redeemed. If one does not really know until that fateful event salvation is not sure and there is really no hope. That is contrary to the Scripture."
​

Unfortunately, we cannot know for certain if we are approved to inherit eternal life until after we die. A person's hope of eternal life is not his guarantee of eternal life.

​

It is OK by me if you want to believe that and live in fear.

bugkiller​

 

[listed]

Some Christians only believe/obey Jesus' commandments for a while. A person cannot lose his Christian belief (fall away from his faith) unless he already is a Christian believer.

Luke 8:13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe (obey) for a while and in time of temptation fall away (from the Christian faith through their disobedience Titus 1:16). rsv

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one (Christian) does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. rsv

Hebrews 10:26-30
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth (if we sin deliberately after we are saved and become Jesus' disciples), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins (Jesus' sacrifice no longer saves us), 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” rsv

2 Peter 2:20
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (if after they become Christians), they are again entangled in them and overpowered (they return to their former disobedience), the last state has become worse for them than the first (they will now receive greater punishment than they would have received if they had never believed). rsv

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; rsv

James 2:24
You see that a man is justified (saved) by (his) works and not by (his) faith alone. rsv

James 1:22
But be doers (obey) of the word (Jesus' commandments), and not hearers only, (instead of believing that His commandments don't matter for your salvation) deceiving yourselves. rsv

​

I've not idea what your post has to do with salvation. It stresses works. Indeed the Christian is created for good works according to Paul. See Eph 2:10 What are these good works? Paul calls them fruit in Gal 5:22-23. James talks about this fruit as good works in James 2. These works aren't works of the law. They're fruits produced on the branch of a tree/vine. A branch even in nature that quits producing fruit dies and eventually drops off the tree. For me I believe my bases are covered with things like Jn 13:34 and Lk 6:31. I believe Gal 5:18. I don't believe the Holy Spirit will lead a person to evil or the law. The word "under" fully means "obligation to." All Christians are delivered from sin and the Jew is also delivered from the law never required of the gentile. See Rom 7:6 and Paul's presentation in the prior chapters.

Where I run into personal problems and conflict with other people is those who think they can abuse my new nature of love to consume me for their sole selfish benefit and in some cases lust.

 

[Jan001]

It is OK by me if you want to believe that and live in fear.

bugkiller​

I don't live in fear, but I fear God.

Cornelius is a good example of a person who feared God.

Acts 10:1-2
At Caesare′a there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, 2 a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms liberally to the people, and prayed constantly to God. rsv

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him (God) who can destroy both soul and body in hell. rsv​

I examine my conscience daily to determine if I am still in the faith/obeying God's commandments. I ask forgiveness and repent of all my sins daily. I strive to obey Jesus' commandments daily because I desire to inherit eternal life after I die.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith (obeying Jesus' commandments). Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test (of obedience to Jesus' commandments))! rsv

Luke 18:18-20
And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” rsv​

Matthew 10:37-38
He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. rsv

Luke 9:23
And he said to all, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. rsv​

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life (eternal life), and those who find it are few. rsv​

Romans 6:16
Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? rsv

Philippians 2:8
And being found in human form he (Jesus Christ) humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. rsv

​

Jesus Christ (His Holy Spirit) lives only in the people who obey His commandments. The Holy Spirit does not live in the people who do not obey His commandments.

Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” rsv

John 14:21-24
He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word (commandments), and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me. rsv

Matthew 13:40-42
Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, 42 and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. rsv

Luke 13:23-27
And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity (evildoers)!’ rsv
​

Many, many Christians believe that Jesus will save them and grant them eternal life no matter what they do. These Christians are deceiving themselves. We all shall reap what we sow.

James 1:22
But be doers of the word (live in obedience to Jesus' commandments) , and not hearers only (believing that Jesus will save you no matter what you do), deceiving yourselves. rsv

Galatians 6:7-8
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh (he who disobeys Jesus' commandments) will from the flesh reap corruption (be condemned to hell); but he who sows to the Spirit (he who obeys Jesus' commandments) will from the Spirit reap eternal life (be in heaven with God forever). rsv

 

[listed]

I don't live in fear, but I fear God.

Cornelius is a good example of a person who feared God.

Acts 10:1-2
At Caesare′a there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, 2 a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms liberally to the people, and prayed constantly to God. rsv

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him (God) who can destroy both soul and body in hell. rsv​

I examine my conscience daily to determine if I am still in the faith/obeying God's commandments. I ask forgiveness and repent of all my sins daily. I strive to obey Jesus' commandments daily because I desire to inherit eternal life after I die.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith (obeying Jesus' commandments). Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test (of obedience to Jesus' commandments))! rsv

Luke 18:18-20
And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” rsv​

Matthew 10:37-38
He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. rsv

Luke 9:23
And he said to all, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. rsv​

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life (eternal life), and those who find it are few. rsv​

Romans 6:16
Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? rsv

Philippians 2:8
And being found in human form he (Jesus Christ) humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. rsv

​

Jesus Christ (His Holy Spirit) lives only in the people who obey His commandments. The Holy Spirit does not live in the people who do not obey His commandments.

Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” rsv

John 14:21-24
He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word (commandments), and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me. rsv

Matthew 13:40-42
Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, 42 and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. rsv

Luke 13:23-27
And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity (evildoers)!’ rsv
​

Many, many Christians believe that Jesus will save them and grant them eternal life no matter what they do. These Christians are deceiving themselves. We all shall reap what we sow.

James 1:22
But be doers of the word (live in obedience to Jesus' commandments) , and not hearers only (believing that Jesus will save you no matter what you do), deceiving yourselves. rsv

Galatians 6:7-8
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh (he who disobeys Jesus' commandments) will from the flesh reap corruption (be condemned to hell); but he who sows to the Spirit (he who obeys Jesus' commandments) will from the Spirit reap eternal life (be in heaven with God forever). rsv

I'm so happy I don't have to run through a list of possible errors at the end of my day. It brings lots of peace to me.

 

[ToBeLoved]

God's natural laws existed before the Mosaic Law. Murder Genesis 4:8-10 and adultery Mark 10:1-12 and theft Genesis 31:29-31, etc., have always been lawlessness against God and neighbor. These natural laws are written on the consciences/hearts/minds of all people.

This is not correct. God wrote his laws on the hearts of the people AFTER the Israelite's could not and did not keep the law. That is a New Covenant blessing.

 

[Jan001]

I've not idea what your post has to do with salvation. It stresses works. Indeed the Christian is created for good works according to Paul. See Eph 2:10 What are these good works? Paul calls them fruit in Gal 5:22-23. James talks about this fruit as good works in James 2. These works aren't works of the law. They're fruits produced on the branch of a tree/vine. A branch even in nature that quits producing fruit dies and eventually drops off the tree. For me I believe my bases are covered with things like Jn 13:34 and Lk 6:31. I believe Gal 5:18. I don't believe the Holy Spirit will lead a person to evil or the law. The word "under" fully means "obligation to." All Christians are delivered from sin and the Jew is also delivered from the law never required of the gentile. See Rom 7:6 and Paul's presentation in the prior chapters.

Where I run into personal problems and conflict with other people is those who think they can abuse my new nature of love to consume me for their sole selfish benefit and in some cases lust.

Doing the works of the Law of Moses cannot help us to become saved or help us to inherit eternal life.

Doing the good works of the Law of Christ 1 Corinthians 9:21 with the help of God keep us saved because these good works prove that we are Jesus' true followers and so these good works help to make us worthy to be approved to inherit eternal life after we die. Therefore a Christian who does not do the good works that he is required by the Father to do will not inherit eternal life. 1 Timothy 4:16, [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2%3A15&version=RSV']1 Timothy 2:15[/URL]
[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2%3A15&version=RSV'][/URL]
Jude 1:20-23
But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit; 21 keep yourselves in the love of God; wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And convince some, who doubt; 23 save some, by snatching them out of the fire; on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. rsv

First, Jesus saves us as His gift to us and by this salvation we become His disciples. He saves us by removing Adam's sin from our souls and by removing from our souls all our own sins that we have done in the past.

However, we must then continue in our salvation by doing the good works that the Father in heaven prepared for us to do. These good works are commanded and not suggested. And, if we do the Father's will (continue to obey Jesus' commandments and do the good works that He has prepared for us to do) until we die, Jesus will then approve us worthy to inherit eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing (we could not possibly ever atone for Adam's sin, but Jesus did), it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works (of the Law of Moses or our own righteous works), lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should (are commanded) walk in them (to do). rsv

We were created to do good works while we are on earth so that we can be happy with God in heaven after we die. A true Christian, with the help of God, proves himself worthy to inherit eternal life by doing good works and producing good fruit.

Revelation 3:3-5
Remember then what you received and heard; keep that, and repent. If you will not awake, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you. 4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments (sinned against me); and they shall walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. rsv

Acts 26:20
but declared first to those at Damascus, then at Jerusalem and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God and perform deeds worthy of their repentance. rsv

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith (in obedience to Jesus' commandments), and saying that through many tribulations (trials/tests) we must enter the kingdom of God. rsv

Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen (those who have become disobedient), but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness (provided you continue in obedience to His commandments); otherwise you too will be cut off (from the grace of God). rsv


Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed. rsv

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to apply themselves to good deeds, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not to be unfruitful. rsv

Matthew 3:10
Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree (person) therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire (of hell).


Matthew 7:20-2
Thus you will know them (all people. whether righteous or unrighteous) by their fruits.
21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ 24 “Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; 25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; 27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”

​

After we die, we each will be judged either worthy to inherit eternal life or unworthy to inherit eternal life and this will be determined according to each person's own works. We will not be judged on whether we trusted Jesus to save us. Jesus will save the righteous (good fruit producers) and grant them eternal life in heaven, but He will not save the unrighteous (evil fruit producers or non-fruit producers) and so they will go to their own appointed place in hell.

John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. rsv

1 Peter 1:17
And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile.


Matthew 25:31-46
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34 Then the King will say to those (sheep) at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those (goats) at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you (goats) did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46 And they (goats) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (sheep) into eternal life.” rsv

James 2:24
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. rsv




​

 

[Jan001]

I'm so happy I don't have to run through a list of possible errors at the end of my day. It brings lots of peace to me.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Doing the good works of the Law of Christ 1 Corinthians 9:21 with the help of God keep us saved because these good works prove that we are Jesus' true followers and so these good works help to make us worthy to be approved to inherit eternal life after we die. Therefore a Christian who does not do the good works that he is required by the Father to do will not inherit eternal life. 1 Timothy 4:16, 1 Timothy 2:15
Jude 1:20-23
But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit; 21 keep yourselves in the love of God; wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And convince some, who doubt; 23 save some, by snatching them out of the fire; on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. rsv

First, Jesus saves us as His gift to us and by this salvation we become His disciples. He saves us by removing Adam's sin from our souls and by removing from our souls all our own sins that we have done in the past.

However, we must then continue in our salvation by doing the good works that the Father in heaven prepared for us to do. These good works are commanded and not suggested. And, if we do the Father's will (continue to obey Jesus' commandments and do the good works that He has prepared for us to do) until we die, Jesus will then approve us worthy to inherit eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing (we could not possibly ever atone for Adam's sin, but Jesus did), it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works (of the Law of Moses or our own righteous works), lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should (are commanded) walk in them (to do). rsv

We were created to do good works while we are on earth so that we can be happy with God in heaven after we die. A true Christian, with the help of God, proves himself worthy to inherit eternal life by doing good works and producing good fruit.

Revelation 3:3-5
Remember then what you received and heard; keep that, and repent. If you will not awake, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you. 4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments (sinned against me); and they shall walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. rsv

Acts 26:20
but declared first to those at Damascus, then at Jerusalem and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God and perform deeds worthy of their repentance. rsv

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith (in obedience to Jesus' commandments), and saying that through many tribulations (trials/tests) we must enter the kingdom of God. rsv

Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen (those who have become disobedient), but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness (provided you continue in obedience to His commandments); otherwise you too will be cut off (from the grace of God). rsv


Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed. rsv

Titus 3:14
And let our people learn to apply themselves to good deeds, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not to be unfruitful. rsv

Matthew 3:10
Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree (person) therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire (of hell).


Matthew 7:20-2
Thus you will know them (all people. whether righteous or unrighteous) by their fruits.
21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ 24 “Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; 25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; 27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”

​

After we die, we each will be judged either worthy to inherit eternal life or unworthy to inherit eternal life and this will be determined according to each person's own works. We will not be judged on whether we trusted Jesus to save us. Jesus will save the righteous (good fruit producers) and grant them eternal life in heaven, but He will not save the unrighteous (evil fruit producers or non-fruit producers) and so they will go to their own appointed place in hell.

John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. rsv

1 Peter 1:17
And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile.


Matthew 25:31-46
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34 Then the King will say to those (sheep) at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those (goats) at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you (goats) did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46 And they (goats) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (sheep) into eternal life.” rsv

James 2:24
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. rsv
​

This is a misnomer that we have to prove anything to anyone. The only one we will stand in judgement before is God and since He knows everything, there will be no where to hide.

I don't know why people think they have to prove their salvation to others. No one will stand with anyone else (human) on the Day of Judgement.

Who are we 'proving' something to? Not God. God already knows us better than we know ourselves.

 

[Jan001]

This is not correct. God wrote his laws on the hearts of the people AFTER the Israelite's could not and did not keep the law. That is a New Covenant blessing.

I disagree. Everyone is given a conscience at the time of his conception and this includes all people who lived before Moses' Law was put in force. God's natural law has always existed and so it also existed during the Old Covenant Law of Moses.

Romans 2:14-16
When Gentiles who have not the law (of Moses) do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. rsv
​

The essence of the Law of Moses is the Natural Law/Law of Christ.

Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a lawyer (a Jew) stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law (of Moses)? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” rsv


Old Covenant

Deuteronomy 6:4-7
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord; 5 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. 6 And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart; 7 and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. rsv

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance or bear any grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. rsv
​

​

God's natural law has always existed. Love for Creator and neighbor has always been required.

The Law of Moses, with its festivals, new moons, and dietary laws, was given to the Israelites because of their idolatry in the desert in order to train them to become good witnesses to the other nations. They failed miserably..Jesus' death on the cross freed the Jews from the yoke of the Law of Moses.​

 

[Jan001]

This is a misnomer that we have to prove anything to anyone. The only one we will stand in judgement before is God and since He knows everything, there will be no where to hide.

I don't know why people think they have to prove their salvation to others. No one will stand with anyone else (human) on the Day of Judgement.

Who are we 'proving' something to? Not God. God already knows us better than we know ourselves.

Each person is judged by Jesus as soon as he dies. He will then go to his own appointed place.

At the sheep and goat judgment, everyone will see and know exactly who was a faithful follower of Jesus Christ and who was not. That is the way God has it planned.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I disagree. Everyone is given a conscience at the time of his conception and this includes all people who lived before Moses' Law was put in force. God's natural law has always existed and so it also existed during the Old Covenant Law of Moses.

Romans 2:14-16
When Gentiles who have not the law (of Moses) do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. rsv
​

The essence of the Law of Moses is the Natural Law/Law of Christ.

Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a lawyer (a Jew) stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law (of Moses)? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” rsv


Old Covenant

Deuteronomy 6:4-7
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord; 5 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. 6 And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart; 7 and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. rsv

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance or bear any grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. rsv

​

God's natural law has always existed. Love for Creator and neighbor has always been required.

The Law of Moses, with its festivals, new moons, and dietary laws, was given to the Israelites because of their idolatry in the desert in order to train them to become good witnesses to the other nations. They failed miserably..Jesus' death on the cross freed the Jews from the yoke of the Law of Moses.​

These verses show nothing before the Old Covenant was established.

I need a verse that shows BEFORE the Old Covenant. That is what you said, right?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Each person is judged by Jesus as soon as he dies. He will then go to his own appointed place.

At the sheep and goat judgment, everyone will see and know exactly who was a faithful follower of Jesus Christ and who was not. That is the way God has it planned.

Why do people then allocate for people proving that they are Christ's on earth based on their deeds when Christ says it is by faith? Who can prove that they have faith? How would that be proven?

 

[pescador]

Why do people then allocate for people proving that they are Christ's on earth based on their deeds when Christ says it is by faith? Who can prove that they have faith? How would that be proven?

Jesus will be the judge.

I don't think it's possible to prove that one has faith, but observing how one lives -- their "works" -- should give people a pretty good idea.

 

[bugkiller]

I don't live in fear, but I fear God.

Cornelius is a good example of a person who feared God.

Acts 10:1-2
At Caesare′a there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, 2 a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms liberally to the people, and prayed constantly to God. rsv

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him (God) who can destroy both soul and body in hell. rsv​

I examine my conscience daily to determine if I am still in the faith/obeying God's commandments. I ask forgiveness and repent of all my sins daily. I strive to obey Jesus' commandments daily because I desire to inherit eternal life after I die.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith (obeying Jesus' commandments). Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test (of obedience to Jesus' commandments))! rsv

Luke 18:18-20
And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” rsv​

Matthew 10:37-38
He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. rsv

Luke 9:23
And he said to all, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. rsv​

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life (eternal life), and those who find it are few. rsv​

Romans 6:16
Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? rsv

Philippians 2:8
And being found in human form he (Jesus Christ) humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. rsv

​

Jesus Christ (His Holy Spirit) lives only in the people who obey His commandments. The Holy Spirit does not live in the people who do not obey His commandments.

Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” rsv

John 14:21-24
He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word (commandments), and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me. rsv

Matthew 13:40-42
Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, 42 and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. rsv

Luke 13:23-27
And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity (evildoers)!’ rsv
​

Many, many Christians believe that Jesus will save them and grant them eternal life no matter what they do. These Christians are deceiving themselves. We all shall reap what we sow.

James 1:22
But be doers of the word (live in obedience to Jesus' commandments) , and not hearers only (believing that Jesus will save you no matter what you do), deceiving yourselves. rsv

Galatians 6:7-8
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh (he who disobeys Jesus' commandments) will from the flesh reap corruption (be condemned to hell); but he who sows to the Spirit (he who obeys Jesus' commandments) will from the Spirit reap eternal life (be in heaven with God forever). rsv

Ifin ya say so, it jus ain't makin me a believer.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I'm so happy I don't have to run through a list of possible errors at the end of my day. It brings lots of peace to me.

yes Gl 5:18 makes life so easy.

bugkiller