Sin, chaos, and entropy

[tonychanyt]

Over the years, I have encountered a few Christians who relate entropy to sin, chaos, and death. Is this justified?

I don't think so, at least not scientifically.

Given a system, open, isolated, or close, such as the planet Earth, the universe, or a can of Coke, its entropy measures the system's thermodynamic state in units of J/K. When a system exists, its entropy exists and is theoretically measurable. Joule relates to dynamic energy or work or heat; Kelvin relates to thermal temperature.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that the total entropy of an isolated system always increases over time. No external physical force acts upon the system; it is just the nature of atoms and molecules residing inside the system.

Technically, entropy is not a force, and it does not measure the level of chaos either.

How do we understand the ratio J/K? What is this per Kelvin degree?

Given a system at any given time, its absolute entropy H is extremely difficult to calculate accurately. In solving practical problems, scientists often calculate ΔH, the change of entropy of the system over 2 instances of time. ΔH = ∫(dQ/T). It depends on the continuous temperature path. Each infinitesimal heat addition must be divided by the temperature at that point.

How does melting ice increase entropy?

We have 1 g of ice at phase change from solid to liquid. The temperature is fixed. The formula is simplified to ΔH = ΔQ/T where:

ΔH = entropy change
ΔQ = heat of fusion (energy absorbed during melting)
T = temperature at melting point (273K)

For ice melting:
Heat of fusion = 334 J/g
ΔS = 334 J / 273 K = 1.23 J/K Positive ΔS means entropy increases.

There is God who will one day put a stop to the current chaos and sin we observe on planet Earth. Still, the scientific measure of entropy may continue onto the new heaven and new earth. It measures the thermodynamic state of a system, not technically the amount of chaos or sin in the system.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Over the years, I have encountered a few Christians relating entropy to sin and chaos. Is it justified?

I don't think so, at least not scientifically.

Given a system (e.g., a room, the planet, the universe), a system's entropy measures the system's thermodynamic state in units of J/K. When a system exists, its entropy exists and is theoretically measurable. Joules relates to dynamic energy; Kelvin relates to thermo temperature.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system increases over time. There is no external physical force acting upon the closed system. It is just the nature of atoms and molecules residing inside the system.

Technically, entropy is not a force, and it does not measure the level of chaos either.

How to understand the ratio J/K? What is this per Kelvin degree?

Given a system at any given time, its entropy H is extremely difficult to calculate accurately. In solving practical problems, scientists often calculate ΔH, the change of entropy of the system over 2 instances of time, temperatures K1 at time 1 and K2 at time 2.

The above formula explains the unit J⋅K^−1. That's the scientific definition of entropy.

There is God who one day will put a stop to the current chaos and sin we observe on planet Earth. However, the scientific measure of entropy may still continue. It measures the thermodynamic state of a closed system.

Do you think that "the old order of things has passed away" (Rev 21:4) is relevant?

God is not a resident of this temporal way of things, as if this is default 'brute fact'. I see this, that we consider 'reality', to be a tool for his use in producing the Bride of Christ, Body of Christ and so on, but when we see him as he is, this will be done away with, swallowed up in the solid reality of God's economy.

 

[tonychanyt]

Do you think that "the old order of things has passed away" (Rev 21:4) is relevant?

Yes.

 

[eleos1954]

Over the years, I have encountered a few Christians relating entropy to sin and chaos. Is it justified?

I don't think so, at least not scientifically.

Given a system (e.g., a room, the planet, the universe), a system's entropy measures the system's thermodynamic state in units of J/K. When a system exists, its entropy exists and is theoretically measurable. Joules relates to dynamic energy; Kelvin relates to thermo temperature.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system increases over time. There is no external physical force acting upon the closed system. It is just the nature of atoms and molecules residing inside the system.

Technically, entropy is not a force, and it does not measure the level of chaos either.

How to understand the ratio J/K? What is this per Kelvin degree?

Given a system at any given time, its entropy H is extremely difficult to calculate accurately. In solving practical problems, scientists often calculate ΔH, the change of entropy of the system over 2 instances of time, temperatures K1 at time 1 and K2 at time 2.

The above formula explains the unit J⋅K^−1. That's the scientific definition of entropy.

There is God who one day will put a stop to the current chaos and sin we observe on planet Earth. However, the scientific measure of entropy may still continue. It measures the thermodynamic state of a closed system.

Much of science is theoretical ... many theories ... and many times theory upon theory.

Like the climate change thought ... yes the climate is and will change ... this is also biblically true ... however man can not control the climate ... that is total nonsense. The climate is going to change no matter what we do.

I'm not bad mouthing science ... it is good to pursue.

Can't wait for the Lords return !!! AMEN!!!!

 

[tonychanyt]

Much of science is theoretical

Can you give me 10 examples? Entropy is not theoretical. It is physically measurable in J/K.

 

[eleos1954]

Can you give me 10 examples? Entropy is not theoretical. It is physically measurable in J/K.

Entropy Theory explains industry evolution as a story of ever-increasing chaos and suggests that the most successful businesses are those that use the latest technology to wrangle that chaos, until entropic forces unleash the next set of opportunities.

The theory of evolution is based on theory upon theory upon theory.

 

[tonychanyt]

Entropy Theory explains industry evolution as a story of ever-increasing chaos

reference?

 

[eleos1954]

reference?

Entropy (information theory) - Wikipedia

 

[tonychanyt]

Entropy (information theory) - Wikipedia

Thanks for the references. To save the effort of your readers, this is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Give the source/citation.
2. Provide the URL link to the source if available.
3. Indent the quoted text.
4. Bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
5. Be concise and to the point.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you it will sharpen your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it here.

 

[tonychanyt]

Here's a zinger of a speculative question. Is Heaven subject to "Entropy"?

Nothing is subject to entropy; it is not a force. Joules refers to dynamic energy, while Kelvin refers to thermo temperature.

Is a heavenly state subject to entropy consideration? Is a heavenly state measurable according to entropy?

only if that state is measurable by energy and temperature.

 

[Grip Docility]

Nothing is subject to entropy; it is not a force. Joules refers to dynamic energy, while Kelvin refers to thermo temperature.

Is a heavenly state subject to entropy consideration? Is a heavenly state measurable according to entropy?

only if that state is measurable by energy and temperature.

It’s not quite fair to use semantics in an entropy discussion, in my opinion. Entropy is present where time is present. It is a state of decay that occurs due to the conversion of energy into mechanical work. The energy doesn’t naturally re-establish itself without some form of intervention. Does one have to back up and say “subject to time” to re-establish that entropy impacts things? Is Heaven subject to time?

Entropy:

1. a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
   "the second law of thermodynamics says that entropy always increases with time"
   
   
2. lack of order or predictability; gradualdecline into disorder.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Entropy is the progressing state of disorder that occurs over time as energy is expended through mechanical conversion.
   
   
   
   
   

 

[tonychanyt]

It’s not quite fair to use semantics in an entropy discussion

Define entropy

 

[Grip Docility]

Define entropy

I had placed its definition within post # 11… and defined it again in a way that required active scrolling to get to the reworded definition as a silly example of expending energy over time. It is defined within the post that you quoted part of, then asked me to define it, under, .

 

[tonychanyt]

definition as a silly example of expending energy over time.

That's not the definition of entropy.

 

[Grip Docility]

That's not the definition of entropy.

You are so messing with me! Your tongue better be fastened firmly to the side of your cheek!

 

[Grip Docility]

That's not the definition of entropy.

You got me! I was so confused! Rotfl!!!

 

[Grip Docility]

Over the years, I have encountered a few Christians who relate entropy to sin, chaos, and death. Is this justified?

I don't think so, at least not scientifically.

Given a system (e.g., a room, the planet, the universe), its entropy measures its thermodynamic state in units of J/K. When a system exists, its entropy exists and is theoretically measurable. Joules relates to dynamic energy; Kelvin relates to thermo temperature.

The second law of thermodynamics states that a system's entropy increases over time. No external physical force acts upon the closed system; it is just the nature of atoms and molecules residing inside the system.

Technically, entropy is not a force, and it does not measure the level of chaos either.

How do we understand the ratio J/K? What is this per Kelvin degree?

Given a system at any given time, its absolute entropy H is extremely difficult to calculate accurately. In solving practical problems, scientists often calculate ΔH, the change of entropy of the system over 2 instances of time, temperatures K1 at time 1 and K2 at time 2. When the temperature changes by 1 unit, Kevin, how much of the thermodynamic energy has changed? This is the unit J⋅K−1.

There is God who will one day put a stop to the current chaos and sin we observe on planet Earth. Still, the scientific measure of entropy may continue. It measures the thermodynamic state of a closed system, not technically the amount of chaos or sin in the system.

I hit Love on your post because you successfully led me to believe that I was going insane!

 

[tonychanyt]

I was going insane!

You are not alone. Most Christians that I came across misunderstood the scientific concept of entropy.

 

[Grip Docility]

You are not alone. Most Christians that I came across misunderstood the scientific concept of entropy.

I actual understand it. Not trying to be a pain. It is considered a "measure", but it is a visible increase of decay that is a result of energy being converted into mechanical exertion. It is the result of a limited amount of energy within a closed system that is eventually complete used up.

It's the main concept behind the impossibility of a "Perpetual Motion Device" that could produce an infinite energy source. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to "prove" that I understand it.

However, time is the cause of the effect. Limited Energy and time are the factors required to have Entropy.

 

[tonychanyt]

I actual understand it. Not trying to be a pain. It is considered a "measure",

Right.

but it is a visible increase of decay that is a result of energy being converted into mechanical exertion.

Technically, that is the change of entropy, not entropy itself.

It is the result of a limited amount of energy within a closed system that is eventually complete used up.

The total energy of a closed system (which the universe is considered to be, despite its expansion) remains constant over time.

Limited Energy and time are the factors required to have Entropy.

The scientific definition of entropy does not depend on time.

You need to distinguish between the concepts of entropy H, and the change of entropy ΔH.