shouldnt the ClC be added?

[RadMan]

I've never known that to be the case, Rad.

As I told Joe. Do the homework. You'd be surprised.

 

[DaRev]

I have done my home work and that's why I said it and I didn't get it from OTTEN. But I will ask him this Sunday at church if he knows more about it.

I also know many congregations "personally" in St.Louis that have converted to this position and all you have to do is go to the PLI website and it will give you of the list of turncoats and it's growing everyday. Check out Kieshnicks church to while your at it since you don't believe it's happening.

YOU do your homework and you wouldn't make these uninformed comments.

I have done my homework. And I'm in the synod so I have a little better handle on things.

 

[DaRev]

I've never known that to be the case, Rad.

You know how it is. Only those outside of the synod think they know anything.

 

[Tofferer]

I don't know anything, beyond the fact that I still don't know why, but there is something about CLC that I don't trust. Keeps me awake it does.

 

[porterross]

As I told Joe. Do the homework. You'd be surprised.

Research what? I've been a member of the LCMS all my life and what you put forth as a rampant attitude has never been present in any of the pastors I've known and if it were indeed the case as the norm in the synod why is it possible for congregations to dismiss pastors?

I think you are using a few extreme examples as being reflective of the synod as a whole and that's illogical. Most of us know better.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I think that the LCMS is having problems with a minority of churches that have big mouths - meaning they're the loud ones. Most of the LCMS churches that I know of or have friends at are not having the issues that Rad speaks of - but they also have sound doctrinal pastors, not pastors who kow tow to the leadership of the synod.

As for the CLC, here is what Matt told me about them.

Yes, they got angry because WELS and ELS weren't quick enough to break fellowship with LCMS. Even now, when our people sit with their people and go down the line of doctrine, when it comes to fellowship, they still demand that the WELS admits it was wrong in waiting - which we won't do because we don't think it was wrong to wait. We waited for official announcements from Convention and we waited because we were hopeful.

In recent years, although their doctrine doesn't reflect it, some of the practices of the CLC have become very legalistic. You won't find this written down anywhere obviously, but a lot of the pastors focus more on the law than the gospel. It is another example where not all the churches of the CLC are like that, but the ones that are like that are the ones who are making waves, so to speak.

I would be uncomfortable in/with a church that didn't let go of its grudges and that didn't put the focus on Jesus and His sacrifice.

 

[filosofer]

[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
Let's see, that was 1955? How many in the CLC were even pastors when that took place? Or even old enough to be confirmed, or even alive?

52 years of grudges... yep it does happen.
[/font]

 

[PreachersWife2004]

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]
Let's see, that was 1955? How many in the CLC were even pastors when that took place? Or even old enough to be confirmed, or even alive?

52 years of grudges... yep it does happen.
[/FONT]

It happened very recently from what I am told that the CLC once again demanded an apology or an admittance of wrongdoing from us for what happened way back then. As long as that continues to be the norm, there will be no fellowship with CLC as far as the WELS is concerned.

Grudges can indeed be handed down.

 

[filosofer]

Grudges can indeed be handed down.

[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
Sometimes, those can be the most destructive and the most fiercely held.
[/font]

 

[PreachersWife2004]

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]
Sometimes, those can be the most destructive and the most fiercely held.
[/FONT]

Yep.

 

[DaRev]

I think that the LCMS is having problems with a minority of churches that have big mouths - meaning they're the loud ones. Most of the LCMS churches that I know of or have friends at are not having the issues that Rad speaks of - but they also have sound doctrinal pastors, not pastors who kow tow to the leadership of the synod.

I would qualify that by saying "the vast majority of congregations and pastors" are not having the issues that Rad speaks of.

 

[BakaFidelis]

How many then does it take to recognize a problem?

 

[RadMan]

Well Rev and PR I hope you are right but we'll just have to wait and see.

It seems you both have a handle on what is going on in the synod. Uh huh.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Ya know Rad, your hostility does nothing to help fix whatever problems, real or perceived, that LCMS is having.

Here's the way I look at things. It's like a bunch of people standing in front of a huge dam. They're all looking at the gaping hole in the dam. There's several ways this can be handled. There are the people who will flee in terror and never look back. There are people who will stand there and complain while the water comes pouring out. And then there are the people that will stick their thumbs in the hole and try to fix whatever is wrong with the dam. The dam is not unfixable in this case.

So you need to ask yourself whether you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution. Constantly griping and arguing with those that are members of the synod doesn't really do much to help the situation.




*PW wanders off to take her own advice.

 

[BakaFidelis]

So what CAN be done to help the situation then? What exactly IS the situation and how far does it extend? Is it entrenched enough into the synod that the more conservative church bodies should break away?

 

[RadMan]

Ya know Rad, your hostility does nothing to help fix whatever problems, real or perceived, that LCMS is having.

In the WELS, we call guys like you nattering naybobs of negativity. Always quick to judge, but never quick to help. We also call guys like you gators, who often simply exist to cause trouble for their congregations. I'm SURE you don't want to be part of either of those groups, right?

So you need to ask yourself whether you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution. Constantly griping and arguing with those that are members of the synod doesn't really do much to help the situation.




*PW wanders off to take her own advice.

What in the world are you talking about? I haven't done anything to you. You have no idea what I do with my time and what I get involved in.

BTW --- I'm still in the LCMS so I have every right to criticize.

 

[DaRev]

So what CAN be done to help the situation then? What exactly IS the situation and how far does it extend? Is it entrenched enough into the synod that the more conservative church bodies should break away?

What is needed are more Confessional pastors in synod congregations. The seminaries in recent years have produced much more Confessionally trained pastors, especially St. Louis, which was a bit more "moderate" in their approach in past years. It isn't going to happen overnight, but progress is being made from within.
There are still a number of pastors in the synod who hold the seminex mindset, but most of them are nearing retirement.

 

[RadMan]

So what CAN be done to help the situation then? What exactly IS the situation and how far does it extend? Is it entrenched enough into the synod that the more conservative church bodies should break away?

Don't bother asking. Nobody here in LCMS wants to know.

 

[DaRev]

Don't bother asking. Nobody here in LCMS wants to know.

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it Rad?

 

[BakaFidelis]

What is needed are more Confessional pastors in synod congregations. The seminaries in recent years have produced much more Confessionally trained pastors, especially St. Louis, which was a bit more "moderate" in their approach in past years. It isn't going to happen overnight, but progress is being made from within.
There are still a number of pastors in the synod who hold the seminex mindset, but most of them are nearing retirement.

After 30 years I can see why they would be getting close to retirement... But why are they allowed to stay?