Should women cover their hair?

Oldmantook

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Heiser is quoting from Hippocratic authors (~ the 17:17 minute mark on wards in the video) who make their ancient knowledge available to us by what they wrote down thousands of years ago. They during their time period believe that hair is hollow and contained reproductive fluid aka sperm. Nowadays I agree, we would see that as crazy with our increased knowledge. Which given what Daniel 12:4. says, also is a rather simple concept to comprehend.



In regards to how hermeneutics is exercised in determining the meaning of a biblical text, I'll cut and paste one of the many sites that explain its' rules. "The rule of HISTORICAL BACKGROUND: The interpreter must have some awareness of the life and society of the times in which the Scripture was written..."
Hermeneutics: the Eight Rules of Biblical Interpretation

Basically Heiser isn't ignoring hermeneutics by including this historical context, he is actually using these golden rules. When I consider the historical background that was present in that ancient Greco/Roman world, I should not be at all surprised.
Nope. My explanation makes much more sense based upon the plain meaning of the text. Heiser travels to the outer limits of reality in order to come up with an interpretation and therein lies the difference. Moreover, you have neglected to explain how Paul could be wrong in his belief (sperm is contained in hair) when he was inspired to write what he wrote by the Holy Spirit (who is never wrong).
 
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SeekingGloryOnThisJourney

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Nope. My explanation makes much more sense based upon the plain meaning of the text. Heiser travels to the outer limits of reality in order to come up with an interpretation and therein lies the difference. Moreover, you have neglected to explain how Paul could be wrong in his belief (sperm is contained in hair) when he was inspired to write what he wrote by the Holy Spirit (who is never wrong).

oh wow, I didn’t know St Paul said that sperm is contained in hair. Where is the verse? Is it in a certain translation?
 
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Oldmantook

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oh wow, I didn’t know St Paul said that sperm is contained in hair. Where is the verse? Is it in a certain translation?
No, there is no such verse in the Bible. I was replying to the person who posted #8 in the replies to your thread. The linked podcast makes the absurd (in my opinion) claim that Paul believed that sperm was contained in the hair which is supposedly why men are not to cover their heads while women cover theirs.
 
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SeekingGloryOnThisJourney

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No, there is no such verse in the Bible. I was replying to the person who posted #8 in the replies to your thread. The linked podcast makes the absurd (in my opinion) claim that Paul believed that sperm was contained in the hair which is supposedly why men are not to cover their heads while women cover theirs.
Oh okay. I did think that was kinda weird.
 
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Norbert L

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Nope. My explanation makes much more sense based upon the plain meaning of the text. Heiser travels to the outer limits of reality in order to come up with an interpretation and therein lies the difference. Moreover, you have neglected to explain how Paul could be wrong in his belief (sperm is contained in hair) when he was inspired to write what he wrote by the Holy Spirit (who is never wrong).
You welcome to remain in your own personal beliefs. As we know there is no one golden rule but a number of golden rules to hermetical interpretation and Dr. Heiser's publicizing of discussions made by other Christian scholars is no less invalid for a Christian to accept.
 
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Oldmantook

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You welcome to remain in your own personal beliefs. As we know there is no one golden rule but a number of golden rules to hermetical interpretation and Dr. Heiser's publicizing of discussions made by other Christian scholars is no less invalid for a Christian to accept.
Your appeal to scholarship is a logical fallacy. Just because a scholar says so doesn't make it true. Scholars are quite fallible and have even been known to disagree with one another. Instead of heeding them; read the plain meaning of the passage. You interpretation is invalid because the Holy Spirit is never wrong. According to you, Heiser and the bunch of scholars, we are supposed to believe that Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Spirit believed that women should cover their heads and men should uncover their heads because of "sperm contained in hair." Since we know today that that is not scientifically true, that could not have possibly been Paul's reasoning for head coverings. So either the Holy Spirit was wrong, or the Spirit lied to Paul. Take your pick.
 
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Norbert L

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Your appeal to scholarship is a logical fallacy. Just because a scholar says so doesn't make it true
Just because a scholar says so in prestigious widely accepted academic Christian journals, actually makes it a topic for public discussion/debate. Will you go out on a limb and proclaim any Christian who accepts Heiser's presentation of this discussion within Christianity as someone who isn't saved? Otherwise you may have to acknowledge that it has some merit.
 
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Oldmantook

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Just because a scholar says so in prestigious widely accepted academic Christian journals, actually makes it a topic for public discussion/debate. Will you go out on a limb and proclaim any Christian who accepts Heiser's presentation of this discussion within Christianity as someone who isn't saved? Otherwise you may have to acknowledge that it has some merit.
You have ignored and have failed to explain how Paul was wrong in his thinking that sperm is stored in the hair. Since Paul was inspired by the Holy how could he not have been wrong? Your reply is nonsense to me unless you have a credible explanation. So your answer is??
 
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Norbert L

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You have ignored and have failed to explain how Paul was wrong in his thinking that sperm is stored in the hair. Since Paul was inspired by the Holy how could he not have been wrong? Your reply is nonsense to me unless you have a credible explanation. So your answer is??
Here's my direct answer to your question. Dr Heiser cites a 100% hermetical rational explanation about why people believed that hair was involved with the human reproductive system thousands of years ago. Nowadays we understand this "fluid" they observed ejecting from the male penis is scientifically labelled as sperm. Their (including Paul's limit of explaining things) lacked this knowledge, he like the rest of his generation didn't have access to this information as we do now Daniel 12:4. This is not brain surgery or rocket science. It's a 100% hermetic explanation. Basically thousands of years ago in historical preserved written documents which we can read and understand, they (including Paul) believed sperm was stored in the hair!!!:doh:

Now answer my previous question that you did not include in this reply to my previous comment. Do you believe any Christian who believes Dr. Heiser's analysis as a Christian has lost his salvation?
 
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Radagast

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Since we know today that that is not scientifically true, that could not have possibly been Paul's reasoning for head coverings. So either the Holy Spirit was wrong, or the Spirit lied to Paul. Take your pick.

Paul tells us his reasons in 1 Corinthians 11. Something about husband-wife relationships, something about male-female differences, something about glory, and something about angels.

Not an easy passage to understand and apply, but nothing there about "sperm in the hair."
 
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Radagast

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they (including Paul) believed sperm was stored in the hair!!!

No, Paul did not believe that. Nobody did. The podcast is referring to some nutty ideas from long after Paul's time, and misinterprets those ideas.
 
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Norbert L

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No, Paul did not believe that. Nobody did. The podcast is referring to some nutty ideas from long after Paul's time, and he gets them wrong.
So Paul wasn't confronting and dealing with the ancient Greco Roman world's understanding of physiology? To exaggerate this comment of mine, where can you show he was familiar with Newtonian science and Einstein's theory or relativity?

But more seriously, explain using historical texts how that culture at his time conceived of human anatomy. Heiser's reporting of investigations by other Christian scholars shows by actually referring to written texts their thoughts about human sexual reproduction. Unless by using real sources it can be shown otherwise, the ponderousness of evidence is in favor that our ancient ancestors were crazy enough to believe sperm existed in hairs.:swoon:
 
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Sophrosyne

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Personally I believe that the culture back in Paul's time some women (not a majority) were causing issues in churches by wearing hairdos that were not mainstream at times that were drawing excessive attention to themselves. Today I believe that as long as women and men don't wear clothing and hairdos and makeup etc that would (compared to the average) cause others to stumble (lust after) that a hair covering isn't necessary.
All in all Christianity focuses less upon laws and legalism and more upon sin itself and loving one another.
After all God made hair so women could have more ammo to attract a male (mate) but church isn't the place to do a "mating dance". As in alcohol drinking it is not about abstaining but moderation where ok starts and sin ends in excess. If anything I believe if most women are wearing similar hairdos and one wears a headcovering it can actually draw more men's attention to her than without one just as a veil covers a woman's face it often has the opposite affect on men making them desire her more than less.
 
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Radagast

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So Paul wasn't confronting and dealing with the ancient Greco Roman world's understanding of physiology?

Well, maybe you should refer to actual sources from the Graeco-Roman world? Ones to whom Paul makes reference, perhaps? And then cite those sources?

In any case, the scholars that the podcast refers to make several serious errors in interpreting the passage in Corinthians, including several Greek language errors.
 
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Oldmantook

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Here's my direct answer to your question. Dr Heiser cites a 100% hermetical rational explanation about why people believed that hair was involved with the human reproductive system thousands of years ago. Nowadays we understand this "fluid" they observed ejecting from the male penis is scientifically labelled as sperm. Their (including Paul's limit of explaining things) lacked this knowledge, he like the rest of his generation didn't have access to this information as we do now Daniel 12:4. This is not brain surgery or rocket science. It's a 100% hermetic explanation. Basically thousands of years ago in historical preserved written documents which we can read and understand, they (including Paul) believed sperm was stored in the hair!!!:doh:

Now answer my previous question that you did not include in this reply to my previous comment. Do you believe any Christian who believes Dr. Heiser's analysis as a Christian has lost his salvation?
This is like talking to a brick wall. Do you not realize that you have failed to answer my question repeatedly?? Do you not acknowledge that the Holy Spirit (who cannot be wrong) inspired Paul to write what he wrote, including the reasons he did so? For Paul to believe that sperm was in the hair, the Holy Spirit had to be in agreement that sperm is in the hair. Since the Spirit is truth, it is impossible for your and Heiser's explanation to be the least bit plausible. For your claim to be true, the Spirit would have inspired Paul to write what he wrote for the reason you supply. Since sperm is not in the hair, the Spirit could not have possible caused Paul to write what he wrote for the reason that you and the supposed scholars supply. Comprende?

And what pray tell does salvation have to do with this? Head covering is a matter of obedience much in the same way that water baptism is a matter of obedience. One does not get water baptized or wear a head covering for women in order to be saved but instead because one is saved. Comprende?
 
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Norbert L

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Well, maybe you should refer to actual sources from the Graeco-Roman world? Ones to whom Paul makes reference, perhaps? And then cite those sources?

In any case, the scholars that the podcast refers to make several serious errors in interpreting the passage in Corinthians, including several Greek language errors.
If you want to be familiar with this Christian argument and discuss it's conclusions, you'll find it here:
https://www.nakedbiblepodcast.com/w...omen-Cover-their-Heads-bc-of-the-Angels-1.pdf
 
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Norbert L

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This is like talking to a brick wall. Do you not realize that you have failed to answer my question repeatedly??
No, I've just pointed out that 1. Dr. Heiser isn't breaking golden rules of hermetical analysis and 2. Paul did not have access to the knowledge we have today so his scripture on this topic needs to be understood in its' historical context.

The only brick wall in failing to answer a question twice is on you failing to state whether or not a Christian who believes in the rational presented by Dr. Heiser is saved or not.
 
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Radagast

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Radagast

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No, I've just pointed out that 1. Dr. Heiser isn't breaking golden rules of hermetical analysis

The podcast draws on the work of Martin, which is known to incorrect on many points.

That assumes that you meant "hermeneutic" there.

Your repeated mixing up of "hermeneutic," "hermetic," and "Hippocratic" has been confusing for me.
 
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