Should We Get Rid of Female Sports?

[eleos1954]

XX and XY are not the norm?

I was responding to a persons "agreement/statement" of very rare cases (abnormal - out of the norm) to the exception of XX XY.

XX and XY are most certainly the norm.

 

[Belk]

I was responding to a persons "agreement/statement" of very rare cases (abnormal - out of the norm) to the exception of XX XY.

XX and XY are most certainly the norm.

That is true, they are the norm. However to state that xx=female and xy=male and can not be changed is incorrect. Some XX are male and some XY are female. It is also becoming more and more possible to modify our genetic code using CRIPR.

The point being that humanity falls in a spectrum and demanding that society follow some sort of cultural norm can not be based on science as the science shows a wide variety.

 

[eleos1954]

That is true, they are the norm. However to state that xx=female and xy=male and can not be changed is incorrect. Some XX are male and some XY are female. It is also becoming more and more possible to modify our genetic code using CRIPR.

The point being that humanity falls in a spectrum and demanding that society follow some sort of cultural norm can not be based on science as the science shows a wide variety.

sex identification is determined by xx and xy that is the overwhelming norm ... norm is that which happens naturally through the reproductive system ... not by human intervention of some kind.

Nearly every cell in our body contains pairs of each of our chromosomes, and these pairs are identical in all but one case: that of our sex chromosomes. Males typically have one X and one Y sex chromosome, while females typically have two X chromosomes.

"The point being" ... One can't change nearly every single cell in their body.

People are being science deniers.

 

[Belk]

sex identification is determined by xx and xy that is the overwhelming norm ... norm is that which happens naturally through the reproductive system ... not by human intervention of some kind.

Nearly every cell in our body contains pairs of each of our chromosomes, and these pairs are identical in all but one case: that of our sex chromosomes. Males typically have one X and one Y sex chromosome, while females typically have two X chromosomes.

"The point being" ... One can't change nearly every single cell in their body.

People are being science deniers.

Yes, they can.

CRISPR

CRISPR (short for “clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats”) is a technology that research scientists use to selectively modify the DNA of living organisms.

www.genome.gov

​

CRISPR is a technology that research scientists use to selectively modify the DNA of living organisms.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

All schools should withdraw their women's athletes from interschool events as a protest against the Mid Vermont school being banned because its athletes forfeited their game when one of their female athletes got seriously injured by a trans woman knocking violently to the floor. It is not fair for a school women's team to have to put themselves at risk by men pretending to be women stealing victory over real women in athletic events.

 

[rjs330]

When we get rid of female sports, will it be back in the kitchen for them?

While we are at it, let's take away their right to vote. Make them cover their faces in public. Send them to all women's schools. Treat them like second class citizens like they used to be.

Is that it for them? The only two choices? Sports or the kitchen?

I say if we are going to allow men to compete against them, we should just do away with women's sports. I'm a bit tired of hearing how it's no big deal. If it's not then let's just have sports and men and women can compete together in all of them. After all it's no big deal. I've even heard that men don't really have a physiological advantage. So I'm good.

 

[rjs330]

Yes..the concept of safe spaces has a history of going down really well with the American right.

Yes we whole heartedly believe in safe spaces. Like women's private spaces.

 

[rjs330]

I have two daughters who played sports fastpitch softball soccer and basketball, for high school and went on with scholarships fastpitch to D2 colleges (mine and others, I know how hard they worked because I coached in a league. Female sports are competitive with biological females, I see how hard the girls worked since 10 years old, and thankfully their scholarships wouldn't go to a medicated biological male.

They should create a Trans league in sports.

I don't disagree with that. That way Thomas can swim against other trans women and men. Then he can still beat girls.

 

[rjs330]

So we should require everyone to follow the norm even if they fall outside of it?

Yes, in some things. Abnormalities can disqualify people from all kinds of things. Following the norm is necessary for many things in society. For other things it doesn't matter at all.

 

[BCP1928]

Yes we whole heartedly believe in safe spaces. Like women's private spaces.

What about men's private spaces? Women use men's public toilets all the time.

 

[Belk]

Yes, in some things. Abnormalities can disqualify people from all kinds of things. Following the norm is necessary for many things in society. For other things it doesn't matter at all.

For what things should abnormalities disqualify someone simply because they are not the norm? I can't think of anything that does not have other more pressing reasons.

 

[rjs330]

What about men's private spaces? Women use men's public toilets all the time.

I don't believe we generally have women going into mens spaces, exposing themselves to them, taking pictures of them or assaulting them. We have these spaces for a reason. If a woman goes into a men's restroom she knows there is a risk and has chosen to disregard it. In her own bathroom she is expecting to be safe from the predations of men. And we absolute examples of men entering womens. spaces and doing these things.

Don't you believe women deserve protection from these things? We have

 

[BCP1928]

I don't believe we generally have women going into mens spaces, exposing themselves to them, taking pictures of them or assaulting them. We have these spaces for a reason. If a woman goes into a men's restroom she knows there is a risk and has chosen to disregard it. In her own bathroom she is expecting to be safe from the predations of men. And we absolute examples of men entering womens. spaces and doing these things.

Don't you believe women deserve protection from these things? We have

Just public restrooms for the time being.

Predatory men enter women's public restrooms, that's a fact. Public restrooms of the kind we are discussing are generally unguarded and unpoliced, so a man can generally enter them unhindered and in many jurisdictions it's not even illegal. So predatory men can enter women's restrooms pretty much whenever they want whether they are wearing a dress or not.

Do you have any numbers about this? Of all the predatory incidents perpetrated by men in women's restrooms, how many of them occurred while the men were wearing dresses?

 

[Reasonably Sane]

The whole thing is actually pretty simple. Many want to separate sex from gender. I actually have no problem with that. Sex is biology and science. There are two of them: Male and female. XX and XY. Gender is a mental perspective. And the number of genders can be unlimited. It's what you believe about yourself. Usually the two go hand in hand. Males also believe they are men or boys, and females believe they are women or girls. But some see themself as some sort of blend of the two, combination, neither, or even the exact opposite of what their sex actually is.

But when dealing with society and culture, we can use sex or gender. And when it comes to things like sports, bathrooms, prisons, etc., it's based on sex, not gender. And in a free society, people can call you whatever they want, for whatever reason they want. They can call you father, mother, sister, brother, male, female, or psychotic, crazy, ugly, or anything else.

I believe I'm Napolean, so you can call me "General, sir". But I don't get to participate in girl's sports because I'm XY.

Yes, it's that simple.

 

[Miles]

If sex and gender are different things, then I agree that whether you play in a men's or women's league should be determined by your chromosomes. The sex that was listed on your birth certificate when you were born. Although there still might be a grey area with intersex individuals, how to sort trans athletes would be relatively straightforward. Until medical science figures out how to change sex on the chromosomal and natural hormonal levels, when a man becomes a trans woman, she should still compete with men. Thus, eliminating the problem of biological men clobbering biological women on the playing field, taking their gold medals, stealing their scholarships, etc. I doubt as many people would mind trans women competing on men's teams as on women's teams.

With that being said, trans women might be concerned about being bullied or otherwise mistreated by their non-trans teammates. That's a separate problem that needs to be addressed and resolved. Nobody should be bullied for how they look, or feel on the inside, but I don't think the answer is for them to compete against female athletes.

However, there is an aspect of this that I haven't quite figured out yet. In what category should trans men compete? Biological women who transition are given testosterone. Testosterone, when increased in an individual through artificial means, is a performance enhancing drug. As such, giving them an unfair advantage over women who do not take testosterone. Perhaps not to the extent of being born male, but the effect isn't negligible. Those who are against doping might still find this to be problematic.

Another possibility might be to let trans athletes participate in whatever category they prefer where body contact is unlikely (swimming, for instance, rather than wrestling), but have a separate category of awards. A category that would let them establish trans records over time to compare and compete with other trans athletes. This way, even if a trans woman wins the race, for instance, the first biological female to cross the finish line would still win the gold. The trans woman's record would stand to be beaten (or not) in the future by other trans women, but not pose a threat to non-trans women's records or rankings.

 

[Bradskii]

If sex and gender are different things, then I agree that whether you play in a men's or women's league should be determined by your chromosomes. The sex that was listed on your birth certificate when you were born. Although there still might be a grey area with intersex individuals, how to sort trans athletes would be relatively straightforward. Until medical science figures out how to change sex on the chromosomal and natural hormonal levels, when a man becomes a trans woman, she should still compete with men. Thus, eliminating the problem of biological men clobbering biological women on the playing field, taking their gold medals, stealing their scholarships, etc. I doubt as many people would mind trans women competing on men's teams as on women's teams.

With that being said, trans women might be concerned about being bullied or otherwise mistreated by their non-trans teammates. That's a separate problem that needs to be addressed and resolved. Nobody should be bullied for how they look, or feel on the inside, but I don't think the answer is for them to compete against female athletes.

However, there is an aspect of this that I haven't quite figured out yet. In what category should trans men compete? Biological women who transition are given testosterone. Testosterone, when increased in an individual through artificial means, is a performance enhancing drug. As such, giving them an unfair advantage over women who do not take testosterone. Perhaps not to the extent of being born male, but the effect isn't negligible. Those who are against doping might still find this to be problematic.

Another possibility might be to let trans athletes participate in whatever category they prefer where body contact is unlikely (swimming, for instance, rather than wrestling), but have a separate category of awards. A category that would let them establish trans records over time to compare and compete with other trans athletes. This way, even if a trans woman wins the race, for instance, the first biological female to cross the finish line would still win the gold. The trans woman's record would stand to be beaten (or not) in the future by other trans women, but not pose a threat to non-trans women's records or rankings.

I tend to agree. In most cases where it's school or social sports then I don't think it matters a great deal. The problem is when you get serious about winning. Collegiate meets and upwards.

Personally, I think that whatever sport you are good at, even excellent at, it comes a distant second to the decisions you are making about your body. You are making substantial changes to your life. Part of those changes may include be a realisation that you cannot compete at that elite level anymore.

 

[RileyG]

Keep the boys out of girls sports. I don’t care what they “identify” as.

 

[BCP1928]

I tend to agree. In most cases where it's school or social sports then I don't think it matters a great deal. The problem is when you get serious about winning. Collegiate meets and upwards.

Personally, I think that whatever sport you are good at, even excellent at, it comes a distant second to the decisions you are making about your body. You are making substantial changes to your life. Part of those changes may include be a realisation that you cannot compete at that elite level anymore.

What about breaking the kids up by performance levels regardless of gender? Could that be workable?

 

[Bradskii]

What about breaking the kids up by performance levels regardless of gender? Could that be workable?

I've no real problem with that. Some sports such as rugby separate not by age but by size. If you're 12 or 13 and good enough and big enough then whether you're a girl or a boy doesn't really matter. But what can be a significant overlap in ability at that age generally decreases as they get older. There's just no way a woman would make it in first grade rugby league for example. Or even soccer.

Some teams from the UK did a pre season trip to the US last year. One of them being Wrexham, who are in the 4th tier. So not a great side at the level of Man City or Liverpool (they were there because Rob Mcelhenny and Ryan Reynolds bought the club in 2020). They had a few of their team and some reserves and a couple of middle aged guest players play against a US women's team in a charity comp. The women were all ex internationals, I believe. It was 12-0.