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Should the GOP swing to the Center?

Secundulus

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9/11 was extremely minor in relation to kind of catastrophe I'm thinking that's required to change a nation's mentality.

Civically minded will come as a side effect of proper Christian discipleship~however it will not always fit the democrat/republican template. "Sleeping with the enemy" in arranging compromises to attempt to forward an agenda via political action does not seem to be a Christian approach though. All we're attempting to do is to baptize a worldly process to gain some basic comfort in this life, i.e. preserve the "american lifestyle" we've grown accustomed to...there are bigger problems out there...


starving-child.jpg


Prisoner.jpg


The widows, orphans, sick, and above all else the lost~~our hands are full of work...
Sending food or aid to people in distress because of their corrupt and tyrannical governments makes us in the rich west feel good, but it doesn't fix the problem. In effect, it simply prolongs the suffering by temporarily taking the pressure off the government that caused the problem and leaving them in power to continue to inflict suffering.

What is more Christian, providing a short term treatment to a symptom and leaving the problem intact or treating the problem directly so as to permanently relieve the suffering?
 
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Boazonfire

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There has been a whole lot of commentary lately (in the news and elsewhere) that if the Republican Party wishes to succeed in 2010…Traditionalists should dump their conservative values for a more “moderate” approach.

Thoughts anyone?

Every time the Republican party moves to the middle we lose elections. The latest example is John McCain running on the Repub. ticket. At this point, I'm having a difficult time telling one from the other!:confused: No, I think the only chance Republicans have is to stick with our traditional values and principals, and stay away from the mushy middle.
 
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Boazonfire

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I don't think Republicans need to be less conservative, but they need to focus on the parts of their platform that have broad public support. Very conservative Republicans, such as Gov. Bobby Jindal and others, who are good at selling themselves and their ideas have done very well. I think Newt Gingrich's organization, American Solutions, points the way.

I personally would recommend taking more of a libertarian-conservative tack, but then I would say that -- I'm a libertarian.

I don't think Republicans need to be less conservative, but they need to focus on the parts of their platform that have broad public support. Very conservative Republicans, such as Gov. Bobby Jindal and others, who are good at selling themselves and their ideas have done very well. I think Newt Gingrich's organization, American Solutions, points the way
.

I agree with you 100%.
 
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fated

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This is the party that preached fiscal discipline and then cut taxes in time of war. This is the party that still wants to put the torch to Social Security and Medicare. This is a party that, given a choice between Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan, would choose Ronald Reagan in a heartbeat.
Why is anyone still listening?
But having already answered:
(Congress, under the control of the Democrats, should never have allowed this to happen, but the Democrats are as committed to fecklessness as the Republicans are to tax cuts.)
So, he mentions that the Democrats are incompetent but still wonders why people listen to the GOP.

A chance to speak in generalities.

The Dems have horribly unpopular radicals social issue problems in their party. Keeping abortion legal, not particularly unpopular. Gay marriage? Always a loser in every where and vote, except for in rare instances in State Supreme Courts. Their bad social policy leads them into quagmire situations at home and abroad, by implementing social policy abroad that is seen as cultural attacks, like birth control and abortion, and at home, lead to stagnation through the use of bad programs, like some kinds of welfare. They love to keep programs that don't work and add new ones. And then there is they hypocrisy, which exists in both parties. McCain would have been a huge change for the GOP, as far as trusting the federal government in policy is concerned, but that didn't happen. In the Democrats, it presents differently. Democrats want abortion rare, a popular opinion, but promise to fund it and make it more accessible, which are horribly unpopular positions that contradict their objective. Obama promises to cut millions out of the federal budget to help decrease the defecit, but then he tries to pass this huge stimulus package that is packed with cuttable political goodies (hint: if you're going to cut pork and worthless programs out of the federal budget, here's a good place to start). Although, this huge bill might be his way of attempting to buy legislaturer and political capital to fund the rest of his campaign, under the cover of it being economic stimulus. Meanwhile deriding making it political. Which always sounds to me like blaming the other party for something he's covering up... Maybe not intentionally, but amounting to that.

The GOP likes to cut popular programs that work and distrusts government so much that they hate to implement large popular programs and make them work. I don't understand what is so unpopular about saving health care money with a barely regulated universal health care system. Instead, they take the risk of having the Democrats deal a blow with an unpopular anti-social rationed, over regulated, abortion funding health care nightmare (in keeping with their inability to make sound social decisions).

Art:
The Republican are like a cracked mirror, in perhaps 3 or 4 pieces. But the Democrats are like a shattered mirror.


The Democrats bleed people into the GOP because of the way they carry out business, from bad social policy to supporting every activist that stands for 'change,' no matter how that change affect and effects society or how much it costs. If the GOP is for the rich guy, the Democrats are for the poor guy, in the class warfare. It's only fair that you acknowledge as much.

For the GOP:
Perhaps the saddest thing is that we live in a society that expect a lot from the government, but says that you are a sucker if you pay for it.


==================


I suppose, you could say that this bill is the first challenge to Obama's promise of keeping the government lean in lean times, and actually acting in a less partisan political way, and expecting the legislature to do the same. It seems pretty challenging to combat the legislature, especially as a Dem, but Bush easily and handily accomplished the task. If he really wants to do what he said, he just needs to hold out until the Dems cave.
 
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Secundulus

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I was reading the scripture tonight and this verse jumped out at me as perfectly describing how I have come to view the Republican Party after voting for it my entire life. They have used the Christian right to their own devices for long enough.

I could quote something worse for the other party.

" Yes, there are wicked men among my people who watch like fowlers on the alert; they set traps and they catch human beings. Like a cage full of birds so are their houses full of loot; they have grown rich and powerful because of it, they are fat, they are sleek, in wickedness they go to any lengths: they have no respect for rights, for orphans’ rights, and yet they succeed! They have not upheld the cause of the needy. Shall I fail to punish this, Yahweh demands, or on such a nation to exact vengeance?" (Jeremiah 5:26-29, NJB)
 
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Albion

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I think it's totally ok for Christians to participate in public affairs, but I think we tend to place too much importance on it. If the early/first Christians had concerned themselves with worldly politics as much as we do, there would be no Christianity today! I think perspective is needed.

Well, I can't argue against having perspective, but it's simple enough as a proposition...if those who want a more decent and fair society don't participate, it will fall to those who don't care about Christian values.

What offends me most of all are the Christians who say that they don't bother with politics because it's either sordid or a poor alternative to putting their energies into church work, but then are among the most vocal when it comes to sounding off on what is wrong with the county's government.

Either you do something to bring about good government or you get what you asked for.

And one more thing is needed for there to be a serious rebound for the GOP--a leader. It could be one of those who lost in the primaries this time or it could be Newt (probably not) but the successful candidate will have to make himself a known spokesman as Reagan did long before the primaries roll around.
 
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MrJim

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Well, I can't argue against having perspective, but it's simple enough as a proposition...if those who want a more decent and fair society don't participate, it will fall to those who don't care about Christian values.

What offends me most of all are the Christians who say that they don't bother with politics because it's either sordid or a poor alternative to putting their energies into church work, but then are among the most vocal when it comes to sounding off on what is wrong with the county's government.

Either you do something to bring about good government or you get what you asked for.

And one more thing is needed for there to be a serious rebound for the GOP--a leader. It could be one of those who lost in the primaries this time or it could be Newt (probably not) but the successful candidate will have to make himself a known spokesman as Reagan did long before the primaries roll around.


What offends me is when Christians think the GOP is the key to Christianized American success in politics:doh:
 
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MrJim

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Sending food or aid to people in distress because of their corrupt and tyrannical governments makes us in the rich west feel good, but it doesn't fix the problem. In effect, it simply prolongs the suffering by temporarily taking the pressure off the government that caused the problem and leaving them in power to continue to inflict suffering.

What is more Christian, providing a short term treatment to a symptom and leaving the problem intact or treating the problem directly so as to permanently relieve the suffering?


Growing fat in our american fantasy land is little more than a distraction to the problems..the Church has and can be the vehicle to permanently relieving sufferingt, as opposed to trying to "elect" a sanctified gov't to do it.
 
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baiguai

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Well, I can't argue against having perspective, but it's simple enough as a proposition...if those who want a more decent and fair society don't participate, it will fall to those who don't care about Christian values.

What offends me most of all are the Christians who say that they don't bother with politics because it's either sordid or a poor alternative to putting their energies into church work, but then are among the most vocal when it comes to sounding off on what is wrong with the county's government.

Either you do something to bring about good government or you get what you asked for.

And one more thing is needed for there to be a serious rebound for the GOP--a leader. It could be one of those who lost in the primaries this time or it could be Newt (probably not) but the successful candidate will have to make himself a known spokesman as Reagan did long before the primaries roll around.

I totally agree with your points. I think as Christians we shouldn't neglect doing what we can politically - but do so WITHOUT 'leaving our faith at home'. The humanists and atheists around us certainly don't leave their faith outside the voting booth.
 
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baiguai

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Growing fat in our american fantasy land is little more than a distraction to the problems..the Church has and can be the vehicle to permanently relieving sufferingt, as opposed to trying to "elect" a sanctified gov't to do it.

True. And that is what has made America great - individualism. The people taking responsibility for their country and their fellow man. But on the other hand we can't box in what God can do. He can work through each of us AND through governments.
I personally do what I can as His servant, as well as an individual who (still) has the ability to affect his country's government.
And not all Americans are 'fat' in an 'american fantasy'. Let us not forget the good things that Americans are still doing in the world.
 
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Albion

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Growing fat in our american fantasy land is little more than a distraction to the problems..the Church has and can be the vehicle to permanently relieving sufferingt, as opposed to trying to "elect" a sanctified gov't to do it.

A couple of reactions:

1. Why does the one have to exclude the other?
2. Few of us are concerned to have a "sanctified" government. One that merely does the right thing will serve us just fine.
 
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MrJim

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A couple of reactions:

1. Why does the one have to exclude the other?
2. Few of us are concerned to have a "sanctified" government. One that merely does the right thing will serve us just fine.

1. Church and politics do not mix well

2. That is not how it is presented in American Christianity~it's more of an underlying sentiment that somehow if we can get the right person in the White House and the right people in Congress we can grow the Kingdom of God on earth and truly do God's will on earth.
 
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MrJim

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True. And that is what has made America great - individualism. The people taking responsibility for their country and their fellow man. But on the other hand we can't box in what God can do. He can work through each of us AND through governments.
I personally do what I can as His servant, as well as an individual who (still) has the ability to affect his country's government.
And not all Americans are 'fat' in an 'american fantasy'. Let us not forget the good things that Americans are still doing in the world.

Individualism~this also has its disadvantages...
 
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Albion

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1. Church and politics do not mix well
But in my #1 point, I didn't suggest any mixing, just that two separate ways of addressing the problem can be undertaken.

2. That is not how it is presented in American Christianity~it's more of an underlying sentiment that somehow if we can get the right person in the White House and the right people in Congress we can grow the Kingdom of God on earth and truly do God's will on earth.
I don't know what kind of "American Christianity" you are thinking of. The view you outline is not one I hear from the people I know who belong to a wide range of churches. But even what you've described here doesn't equal "sanctified," does it, just one that does what the onlooker thinks God would want?

Maybe I misunderstood your use of the word "sanctified" to mean that the elected representatives must be born-again, spirit-filled people themselves or whatever. For most of us, having even an atheist who nevertheless votes against abortion on demand is a gain.
 
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Auntie

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This is one of the most heartbreaking photos.....And the photographer who took this picture commited suicide shortly after.


AnneSally, please tell me what you know about this, do you have a link to an article about it? That is the saddest photo I have ever laid my eyes on.:cry: I am only comforted to know that precious babe is now in Heaven, and I hope the photographer is too.:( It makes me feel so ashamed.
 
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Cris413

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This is what really caught my attention in the article I read:

Item #2 Run Like the Devil from Those Who Believe in God and the quotes that followed:

“A major – perhaps insoluble - problem conservatives face is that the aggressive ‘social conservatism’ of the Republican base and its activists does not appeal to moderates and independent voters…First, the Republican Party must distance itself from evangelicalism as the policy preference of evangelicals have only minority support – Jeffrey Hart, former National Review contributor and Reagan speechwriter, The Daily Beast, 11/12/08

“As Republicans sort out the reasons for their defeat, they likely will overlook or dismiss the gorilla in the pulpit. Three little letters, great big problem: G-O-D.” Kathleen Parker, syndicated column 11/19/08

“To be more specific, the evangelical, right-wing, oogedy-boogedy branch of the GOP is what ails the erstwhile conservative party and will continue to afflict and marginalize its constituents if reckoning doesn’t soon cometh. Simply put: Armband religion is killing the Republican Party – Kathleen Parker, 11/19/08

again...just to note the article I read and quotes are from "No Thanks: 'Moderate" Advice" taken from The Limbaugh Letter Jan 2009.

I don't consider the GOP is the end all and be all of Christian faith and practice...however...I do consider as Christians and American citizens we have the freedom to voice our opinions in and on government...and we should exercise our right to vote (while we still have that right) and support the Party Platform (viable candidate) that we prayerfully consider best aligns with our beliefs. (As difficult as that may be these days)...:sorry:

No political party nor candidate is going to solve any world problems on any lasting level...nor should we ever place our hope and trust and faith in them...

There is a much bigger picture...MUCH BIGGER...and it has very little to do with maintaining our comfort levels! Let's not misunderstand that...

The fact is...politics play a vital role in world events...particularly as the whole world keeps an eye on Israel...:prayer:

But I digress...(as usual....:blush:)

...back on task...I find it quite interesting that these commentaries suggest one of the problems with the GOP...is any mention of God and evangelism...:confused:
 
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