Should the GOP swing to the Center?

[AnneSally]

Politics by nature is a game of compromise; give in here to get something there...which doesn't seem to reflect the nature of Christ.

totally....

 

[Cris413]

I like Texans too, but... are we done with the Texas thread hijack yet?

Yeah...I was just thinking...I should rename the thread to "Us Texans...Who we are...and What We Think" 'cause that's all that really matters... ya'll joking...

Well...Texas has our share of morons too....which is a characteristic that becomes quite evident when anyone operates a motor vehicle...and any kind...

 

[Cris413]

MrJim:

What do you think (or anyone else) of this quote:

“If the Party wants to have a future in this country, it has to face some realities…The Republican Party has to begin appealing to the Hispanic, to blacks, to Asians…and you can’t appeal to them just by saying, you know, ‘Horatio Alger! Pull up yourself! Pull up by your bootstraps! No more welfare!’ and all these sorts of loaded statements. The Republican Party has to now start listening to the African American community, and the Hispanic and Asian and other minority communities and see what’s in their hearts and minds and not just try to influence them by Republican principles and dogma”

--Colin Powell, on CNN 12/11/08

I'll give you my initial thought when I read this up front...

I think this commentary and ideology does a disservice to minorities...in that...IMHO...it suggests they "can't" or "don't want" to better themselves...but would "rather" rely on the Government to do it for them...

What Republican principles and dogma is he speaking about?

 

[Cris413]

I don't think Republicans need to be less conservative, but they need to focus on the parts of their platform that have broad public support. Very conservative Republicans, such as Gov. Bobby Jindal and others, who are good at selling themselves and their ideas have done very well. I think Newt Gingrich's organization, American Solutions, points the way.

I personally would recommend taking more of a libertarian-conservative tack, but then I would say that -- I'm a libertarian.

Gonna bump this as it seemed to get lost in the Texas Panhandle...

What is a libertarian Iz?

 

[StreetPreacher82]

Gonna bump this as it seemed to get lost in the Texas Panhandle...

What is a libertarian Iz?

Libertarians prefer limited government to the max along with individual rights.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Gonna bump this as it seemed to get lost in the Texas Panhandle...

What is a libertarian Iz?

It did kinda get lost in there. That Panhandle is pretty big.

In short, a libertarian is someone (like me) who believes in liberty as their primary political value, specifically the liberty of individuals to do pretty much whatever they want so long as they aren't violating the rights of others, like the old saying "My freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins."

I'll let the wiki on libertarianism handle the detailed explanation. Within that article, I would fit the subcategory, libertarian conservatism, and also libertarian Republican.

 

[Cris413]

It did kinda get lost in there. That Panhandle is pretty big.

Yep...everything is BIG here in Texas...

ohh...I have a joke I think I just made up:

How do you know if a Texan is wearing a 10 gallon hat?

You don't...he might not be wearing a hat at all....

In short, a libertarian is someone (like me) who believes in liberty as their primary political value, specifically the liberty of individuals to do pretty much whatever they want so long as they aren't violating the rights of others, like the old saying "My freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins."

I'll let the wiki on libertarianism handle the detailed explanation. Within that article, I would fit the subcategory, libertarian conservatism, and also libertarian Republican.

My hubby says quite often...one's rights end where anothers begin...but I think I like your description better......good visual!

Thanks Iz...I'll take a look at the links.

So would it be safe to say...you consider the GOP should swing more to the center? Become more "moderate" if they wish to take the election in 2010?

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

So would it be safe to say...you consider the GOP should swing more to the center? Become more "moderate" if they wish to take the election in 2010?

No, not necessarily. Conservatism can be popular, if it's delivered with a smile and a positive attitude, as Reagan always did. And if it concentrates on the issues people actually care about and offers positive solutions. Like I said, Newt Gingrich has a pretty good handle on that, and his site, American Solutions, is good stuff.

Of course, the flavor of conservatism I favor is more about government leaving people alone than about trying to make them moral. I'm all for people being moral too, but I don't think it can or should come about by means of government. The best thing we can do about that is evangelism and sound moral teaching as we raise our kids.

 

[Cris413]

No, not necessarily. Conservatism can be popular, if it's delivered with a smile and a positive attitude, as Reagan always did. And if it concentrates on the issues people actually care about and offers positive solutions. Like I said, Newt Gingrich has a pretty good handle on that, and his site, American Solutions, is good stuff.

Of course, the flavor of conservatism I favor is more about government leaving people alone than about trying to make them moral. I'm all for people being moral too, but I don't think it can or should come about by means of government. The best thing we can do about that is evangelism and sound moral teaching as we raise our kids.

thanks for the link...it looks like a lot of info...I'll check it out when I have more time...

And I do agree...I like RR's approach...and the face of conservativism should be friendly and compassionate...and I think for the most part it is...just not in the way some think it should...

...if that makes sense....

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

MrJim:

What do you think (or anyone else) of this quote:

“If the Party wants to have a future in this country, it has to face some realities…The Republican Party has to begin appealing to the Hispanic, to blacks, to Asians…and you can’t appeal to them just by saying, you know, ‘Horatio Alger! Pull up yourself! Pull up by your bootstraps! No more welfare!’ and all these sorts of loaded statements. The Republican Party has to now start listening to the African American community, and the Hispanic and Asian and other minority communities and see what’s in their hearts and minds and not just try to influence them by Republican principles and dogma”

--Colin Powell, on CNN 12/11/08

I'll give you my initial thought when I read this up front...

I think this commentary and ideology does a disservice to minorities...in that...IMHO...it suggests they "can't" or "don't want" to better themselves...but would "rather" rely on the Government to do it for them...

What Republican principles and dogma is he speaking about?

Powell makes an excellent point, and I think he's quite right. That doesn't mean conservatives have to become moderates or liberals, but they do need to learn to listen, and learn to appeal to minority voters. Note I said appeal, not pander. Jack Kemp is very good at that. It's about showing up, actually listening, and being real. Principled, conservative, free market based policies can appeal to minority voters, if they're designed right, and sold right. Conservatives cannot just write off minority votes anymore, the way Democrats used to write off the South. We have to fight for their votes. We may not get a majority of them, but we need to get enough of them.

 

[Albion]

The GOP has been slowly swinging towards the Center for the past dozen years or so. See what it has gotten the party. A slow but steady retreat from power.

If it continues to move in this direction, in the mistaken belief that this is necessary for survival, it will insure itself a permanent minority status in Congress, the State Governorships, and probably also the Presidency.

 

[Cris413]

Powell makes an excellent point, and I think he's quite right. That doesn't mean conservatives have to become moderates or liberals, but they do need to learn to listen, and learn to appeal to minority voters. Note I said appeal, not pander. Jack Kemp is very good at that. It's about showing up, actually listening, and being real. Principled, conservative, free market based policies can appeal to minority voters, if they're designed right, and sold right. Conservatives cannot just write off minority votes anymore, the way Democrats used to write off the South. We have to fight for their votes. We may not get a majority of them, but we need to get enough of them.

Thanks for the input Iz...it makes me feel a bit better about the quote...

You are absolutely right...there is a difference between appealing to the needs of others...and pandering to the wants of others.

I guess I just get a little discouraged sometimes over all the ethnic division. I have never understood it...and I never will...and I would certainly like to see it reduced in focus....

 

[Cris413]

The GOP has been slowly swinging towards the Center for the past dozen years or so. See what it has gotten the party. A slow but steady retreat from power.

If it continues to move in this direction, in the mistaken belief that this is necessary for survival, it will insure itself a permanent minority status in Congress, the State Governorships, and probably also the Presidency.

I think I'm inclined to agree with you...I may be uber-conservative...but I'm not necessarily uber-Republican.

I usually vote R because we have a two party system and I can't bring myself to vote for the DNC platform. Well...I couldn't have voted for Obama regardless what party he was affiliated with...but I digress.

The article I was reading in the Limbaugh Letter...(not that I'm a raging fan of Limbaugh either) is what inspired me to post this thread. I was quite interested in what others think.

....such as...should the GOP do whatever it takes to get back into the White House in 2010? Or stick to their traditional and conservative guns so to speak...or should I say...get back to their T & C roots?

The article began with:

Source: The Limbaugh Letter 2009 No Thanks: “Moderate” Advice.

~ Fresh off his landslide December runoff victory, Georgian Republican Senator Saxby Chambliss offered the GOP sound advice on Fox News:

"We’ve got to look back and make sure that we build up towards 2010 on a foundation that Ronald Reagan told us about years ago, and that is what Republicans stand for: smaller government, fiscal responsibility, more individual rights and freedoms, and lower taxes. We’ve got to get back to those fundamentals. That’s what we talked about on the campaign trail and obviously it resonated with our constituents here."

Sadly, Chambliss’s wise words do not represent the Republican establishment view. Since the election, the “moderates” and “intellectuals” on our side of the aisle have filled the airways with “how-to-rebuild” pontifications. Their advice falls into four categories of bone-headedness:

1) Shun Me and MY “Ilk” as Troglodytes ( “me” meaning Rush Limbaugh)
2) Run Like the Devil from Those Who Believe in God
3) Insist that Reaganism is Dead
4) Dump Principle; Pander to the “Center”

Then it provided commentary "quotes" in each catagory largely from "journalists" and other Republicans.

 

[CaDan]

Nobody has any idea what the "center" is.

 

[Cris413]

Nobody has any idea what the "center" is.

You may have a point CaDan...unless we're talking about Twinkies and Ding Dongs...then the center would be the creamy filling...

 

[Sketcher]

This is one of the things certain commentators and Republican Reps disagree with, apparently the GOP should insist that Reaganism is dead:

"It is not good [sic] conservative trying to revive Ronald Reagan...Historians may rate Reagan as a near-great President. But our problems now are different from the ones he addressed. And 'supply-sided economics' is now widely recognized as nonsense" ~ Jeffrey Hart, The Daily Beast 11/12/08

"...Ronald Reagan's dead, get over it. That's a blunt paraphrase about conservatives and GOP Traditionalists who want to relive the good old days from a senior Republican senator, speaking on background 'Ronald Reagan ran in the 1970's. That was a long time ago,' says the senator, a member of the GOP message team. His point: 'The Party has to reach pasts it's traditional base and especially to younger and Hispanic voters. 'It's about survival,' he tells us ~ U.S. News & World Report 11/20/08

"We can't revive the ghost of Ronald Reagan...People want government in times of need." ~ anonymous Republican senator to Politico.com, 11/24/08

quote source...The Limbaugh Letter January 2009

Just throwin' this out for discussion....

We ran a moderate candidate named John McCain and lost pretty soundly. Bad idea from some people who probably don't have conservatism's best interests at heart.

MrJim:

What do you think (or anyone else) of this quote:

“If the Party wants to have a future in this country, it has to face some realities…The Republican Party has to begin appealing to the Hispanic, to blacks, to Asians…and you can’t appeal to them just by saying, you know, ‘Horatio Alger! Pull up yourself! Pull up by your bootstraps! No more welfare!’ and all these sorts of loaded statements. The Republican Party has to now start listening to the African American community, and the Hispanic and Asian and other minority communities and see what’s in their hearts and minds and not just try to influence them by Republican principles and dogma”

--Colin Powell, on CNN 12/11/08

I'll give you my initial thought when I read this up front...

I think this commentary and ideology does a disservice to minorities...in that...IMHO...it suggests they "can't" or "don't want" to better themselves...but would "rather" rely on the Government to do it for them...

What Republican principles and dogma is he speaking about?

I recently saw either on Hannity or on Huckabee an argument against "group politics." The Democrats have been playing that game for a long time now. That's what they're about. Assigning people to groups, assigning needs to those groups, and then pandering to them. What we can do and should do is promote individual liberty and responsibility, and good conservative policies that will benefit every American. We really need to sell that last point.

It did kinda get lost in there. That Panhandle is pretty big.

In short, a libertarian is someone (like me) who believes in liberty as their primary political value, specifically the liberty of individuals to do pretty much whatever they want so long as they aren't violating the rights of others, like the old saying "My freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins."

I'll let the wiki on libertarianism handle the detailed explanation. Within that article, I would fit the subcategory, libertarian conservatism, and also libertarian Republican.

Or you could just take this test.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

We ran a moderate candidate named John McCain and lost pretty soundly. Bad idea from some people who probably don't have conservatism's best interests at heart.

I really wouldn't blame McCain (or Palin) for the loss. With the economy in bad shape, and with an unpopular president of the same party, McCain ran some 30 points ahead of Bush. I really can't see anyone else in the Republican field doing better. Still, he made some mistakes, and supporting the massively unpopular bailout after suspending his campaign was probably the biggest. That was his opportunity to turn it around.

Or you could just take this test.

The test is from the anarcho-capitalist PoV, the most extreme form of libertarianism. It doesn't like me very much, as I'm a libertarian conservative.

 

[Sketcher]

I really wouldn't blame McCain (or Palin) for the loss. With the economy in bad shape, and with an unpopular president of the same party, McCain ran some 30 points ahead of Bush. I really can't see anyone else in the Republican field doing better. Still, he made some mistakes, and supporting the massively unpopular bailout after suspending his campaign was probably the biggest. That was his opportunity to turn it around.

The economy was a most profound nail in the coffin. But watching McCain's campaign was like watching the Detroit Lions. They made so many bad mistakes and didn't take advantage of countless opportunities. Why is it that we didn't hear about how Obama would be ineligible for an FBI or CIA security clearance only a week or two before Election Day? Why did Obama and Biden get away with so many lies about economic policy? Why did McCain totally fumble on the bailout issue, providing no real alternative to what Democrats were proposing? Why were conservatives unexcited and dragging their feet until the nomination of Sarah Palin as a running mate? Why did we nominate a man who supported the closing of Gitmo, cap-and-trade, and broken borders?

The test is from the anarcho-capitalist PoV, the most extreme form of libertarianism. It doesn't like me very much, as I'm a libertarian conservative.

It wasn't too nice to me either. I'm not a libertarian, and if I have any doubts, it's still there for me to take again.

 

[MrJim]

MrJim:

What do you think (or anyone else) of this quote:

“If the Party wants to have a future in this country, it has to face some realities…The Republican Party has to begin appealing to the Hispanic, to blacks, to Asians…and you can’t appeal to them just by saying, you know, ‘Horatio Alger! Pull up yourself! Pull up by your bootstraps! No more welfare!’ and all these sorts of loaded statements. The Republican Party has to now start listening to the African American community, and the Hispanic and Asian and other minority communities and see what’s in their hearts and minds and not just try to influence them by Republican principles and dogma”

--Colin Powell, on CNN 12/11/08

I'll give you my initial thought when I read this up front...

I think this commentary and ideology does a disservice to minorities...in that...IMHO...it suggests they "can't" or "don't want" to better themselves...but would "rather" rely on the Government to do it for them...

What Republican principles and dogma is he speaking about?

Izzy kinda noted what I think~remember, I'm an observer and not a participant in american politics. I think the "priniciples and dogma" tend toward the prolife/progun/small gov't/low taxes end of the spectrum, which tends to not appeal to city folks, which would be where majority of minorities dwell.

Like CaDan says, what's center? Like Albion and others have said, the party has gained nothing by moving away from the grounding principles, of which W was not a good guardian. But every election process drives me farther and farther away from seeing any genuine value in engaging in the process. Tex's view:

Seriously though. Even though I think Regan is a demi-God of sorts, we need to reinvent the GOP in a way to cope with the times. Become a christian based organization and lean toward the bible as our true guidelines. We have become to worldly and Im sad to say, this is what has killed us in the last election.

Well most of ya know my POV on this POV...

 

[Cris413]

Izzy kinda noted what I think~remember, I'm an observer and not a participant in american politics. I think the "priniciples and dogma" tend toward the prolife/progun/small gov't/low taxes end of the spectrum, which tends to not appeal to city folks, which would be where majority of minorities dwell.

Like CaDan says, what's center? Like Albion and others have said, the party has gained nothing by moving away from the grounding principles, of which W was not a good guardian. But every election process drives me farther and farther away from seeing any genuine value in engaging in the process. Tex's view:



Well most of ya know my POV on this POV...

I'm not uber-political...I do consider we as Christians should participate in civic responsibility...(uber is my new word for the week)

I appreciate your input and the point Izzy presented too...but as I say...I don't like to see leadership creating more division...

I really liked what TwistedSketch noted: (mold bold emphasis)

"What we can do and should do is promote individual liberty and responsibility, and good conservative policies that will benefit every American. We really need to sell that last point."

Start treating this country once again as the United States of America...rather than the Divided Peoples of America