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Should the GOP swing to the Center?

c71clark

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Patriotism isn't the problem, and neither is nationalism... as long as one country's nationalism doesn't mean killing other nations.

While the constitution doesn't go on and on about God, it doesn't need to. It's pretty evident how important the Divine was to the founding fathers. I did some reading up on the formation of America, and quite frankly, it is a true miracle that it ever happened. Between UK distractions, French ignorance (well, actually NO one knew) of just how large the continent was, Republican's (back then, Democrats were calling themselves "republican's" and today's GOP called themselves "Federalists") desperate and violent desire to maintain their slaves, Native American's unable to form allies to prevent the spread of the Colonists, etc...
It's really amazing we ever formed, let alone grew to be the sole world superpower. I firmly believe the hand of God is in there.
 
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Albion

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Those are admirable values... but they describe the Libertarian Party much better than they do the Republican Party. There was one Republican candidate who matched them last year: Ron Paul, who had been the Libertarian nominee in 1988

True. If it weren't for the pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-drug, pro-immigration underbelly of the Libertarian Party, I think it would be benefitting mightily from the GOP's current weakness.
 
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MrJim

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Well, it got us a free nation, didn't it? After all, if colonial Americans hadn't felt that they were different from Englishmen, we would have remained Englishmen with a monarch and no written constitution to limit the power of the central government.



Yup, that pretty much summarizes it.

It definitely was worth killing a bunch of people over...:sorry: I mean the New Testament definitely tells us that being a "free nation" is worth defending and killing people..that's almost the core teaching of the Gospel if ya really think about it:doh:
 
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JimfromOhio

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What are diverse voters? Do you mean those voters who are against core Republican values?
Which core values that ALL Republicans agree? Remember, I said, ALL, because there are those who disagree some of the Republican core values. One of my main issues with conservatives is this: Extreme evangelical Christians make up 10% of all Republicans that controls 80% of the party which lead to the downfall of the Republican party. The extremes find it difficult to fully accept anyone the way they really are and chronically attempt to control them so that they can become the way they "should ideally be" which often leads to become fatalistic, hostile, pessimistic, and negativistic attitudes.

Politicians who struggle with imposing a moral code on themselves are unlikely to succeed in their attempts to impose it on others. The main issue would be that I look at "what morality is being legislated" more than if morality is being legislated. In the past, most politicians and executives have failed "morally" in their lives by allowing money to influence their unwise decisions. If the politicians and executives can't control their own moral, why should the average americans?

The split between "conservatives" and "moderates" is really just a symptom that is between two aspects of the Republicans' philosophy:
1. Moderates are the ones who desire "that the individual has a right to live for his own goals"

versus

2. Conservatives are the ones who desire "that the individual live for the goals imposed on citizens by Congress"

It it a silly mistake for Republicans to want to choose between moderates and conservatives?

I believe the Republican party has moved too far to the right that made conservatives too powerful which that already alienated moderates and other conservative political independents.

I want to see the Republican party reformed and go back to back to the basic of Republican party. I want to see the Republican with Abraham Lincoln's attitude that they hold conservative positions on most issues but have an underlying worldview of what is happening and make decisions based on them. Repeated polls of historians have ranked Lincoln as among the greatest presidents in U.S. history, often appearing in the first position. Among contemporary admirers, Lincoln is usually seen as personifying classical values of honesty and integrity, as well as respect for individual and minority rights, and human freedom in general. Historians have stressed Lincoln's use of and redefinition of republican values that he highlighted the moral basis of republicanism, rather than its legalisms.

America's moral decline is a spiritual problem, not a political one, and its solution is the gospel, not partisan politics. The Republican Party have been damaged by the far right Christian politics. Negative perceptions of Christians are on the rise that people continues its drift away from Christian values. We live in a very sinful world and there is NO WAY we will be able to legislate our way into becoming a holy and pure nation. That’s not going to happen. We will never have a theocracy government. The tougher issues require reaching people’s hearts and minds and doing the things Scripture actually tells Christians that they should do, which is not political related.

Charles Colson wrote in his book about Conservative Christians, "Who Speaks for God?'': "It's easy to become enthralled with access to places of supposed power. In time, however, without even knowing it, our well-intentioned attempts to influence government can become so entangled with a particular political agenda that it becomes our focus; our goal becomes maintaining our political access. When that happens, the gospel is held hostage to a political agenda -- and we become part of the very system we were seeking to change.''

As U.S. Citizens, what do we know what it really means to be a "Patriot"? Its not the U.S. Government fault but rather the PEOPLE who are running the government. I am a strong Christian and I am also a Patriot but I am very nuetural when it comes to politics. One thing we know for sure about politics in the next century is that Jesus Christ will still be Lord over all authorities on earth and that we are to be thinking about Christian political responsibility. We need to understand God's ways for political understanding, for an understanding that will allow us to become more faithful witnesses in politics to the God who rules the world through Jesus Christ. Our political challenge as Christians is to learn how to exercise our earthly political responsibilities in obedience to Christ. When the distinction is drawn between "Christians" and the "world" politics; we discuss all political aspects including economics, science, technology, and media that are part of "the world." Voting on issues such as capital punishment, abortion, prohibition, censorship, and many other ethical questions would be affected. I do believe very much in being a responsible Christian citizen. As good testimony to outsiders, Christians can work with non-Christians (& government) in attempting to promote justice and civic peace because it is good for all people, not just Christians (Galatians 6:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:15).
 
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Albion

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It definitely was worth killing a bunch of people over...:sorry: I mean the New Testament definitely tells us that being a "free nation" is worth defending and killing people..that's almost the core teaching of the Gospel if ya really think about it:doh:

You need to pick up a version other than "The Radical Bible" or "Quotations from Chairman Jesus." I prefer the KJV but the RSV and NIV are well thought of, too.
 
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Albion

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One of my main issues with conservatives is this: Extreme evangelical Christians make up 10% of all Republicans that controls 80% of the party which lead to the downfall of the Republican party.
There isn't any way on Earth that those percentages are correct. Sounds like something plucked out of thin air by one of those anti-Evangelical types who want the rest of us to think that Bob Jones and Pat Robertson send their instructions to the Republican members of Congress daily. But what is correct is that the Republican Party began its decline when it did not follow through on its assurances to Christian activists to whom it had promised much. When those people then began disappointedly to drift away from the Party and, in some cases, from partisan politics altogether, there were no replacements. We now see the consequences of that faithlessnes.
 
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MrJim

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You need to pick up a version other than "The Radical Bible" or "Quotations from Chairman Jesus." I prefer the KJV but the RSV and NIV are well thought of, too.

:D Oh you mean I need the one dipped in red, white, and blue
 
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max1120

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Izadarri...I am from Louisiana so I can honestly tell Bobby Jendal would be a terrible choice for the republican party as their next presidential nominee. First of all he has done little of substance for the state. His only real contribution to the state so far was some over reaching ethics and an attempt to allow the states legislators have their way on 150 % pay increase. He waffled twice on the legislative pay raise issue. He is also way to conservative for mainstream america (which would come out quickly in any election) as for example opposing abortion even in cases to save the mothers life or preserve the health of the mother. He oppose stem cell research which is supported by over 60% of american voters. He has also made statements (before he was elected governor in 2007) that the Roman Catholic Church was the only "true church". That will not go over very well when the story breaks out. Of course if the republicans want to nominate him fine...maybe you could pair him up with Sarah Palin? I do not think they would be electable nationwide but I am sure the idea would have its supporters.

Max
 
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Boazonfire

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Izadarri...I am from Louisiana so I can honestly tell Bobby Jendal would be a terrible choice for the republican party as their next presidential nominee. First of all he has done little of substance for the state. His only real contribution to the state so far was some over reaching ethics and an attempt to allow the states legislators have their way on 150 % pay increase. He waffled twice on the legislative pay raise issue. He is also way to conservative for mainstream america (which would come out quickly in any election) as for example opposing abortion even in cases to save the mothers life or preserve the health of the mother. He oppose stem cell research which is supported by over 60% of american voters. He has also made statements (before he was elected governor in 2007) that the Roman Catholic Church was the only "true church". That will not go over very well when the story breaks out. Of course if the republicans want to nominate him fine...maybe you could pair him up with Sarah Palin? I do not think they would be electable nationwide but I am sure the idea would have its supporters.

Max

He is also way to conservative for mainstream america

Mainstream America is conservative.:clap:

He is also way to conservative

There is no such thing as being too conservative.:thumbsup:
 
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max1120

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Free Advice to the Republican Party (and her supporters):

1. Ditch your opposition embryonic stem cell. 60-70% of american voters support it and your opposition irritates them badly. You do not have to become big time supporters of it...just do not oppose it. Although supporting it would be even better.

2. Stop trying to focus all of your energy on outlawing abortion. Some alternatives would be to focus on preventing unwanted pregnancy by expanding american women's access to contraceptives. Another possibility is to support funding of research to produce even more effective means of preventing pregnancy that do not require someone taking a daily pills or periodic injections.

3. Stop pandering to the religious right. It makes you look silly and most American's DO NOT support their agenda.

4. Go back to supporting strong national defense, opposing illegal immigration, low taxes for working families, and laws that keep criminals behind bars.

Basically American's want to be protected from crime, terrorist, illegal aliens, and countries with expansionistic agenda's such as China, Iran, and North Korea. They also want to be left alone to decide for THEMSELVES about personal issues such as stem cells and birth control. They want abortion to safe, legal, and regulated. This means exceptions for life of the mother, health of the mother, fetal deformity, rape, and incest. They want to left to themselves to decide what they consider moral and immoral. They do not want that to be codified into law. Basically live and let live! They want not just lower taxes but fairer taxes, they want to believe that everyone pays their fair share and that the wealthy do not get away without having to pay according to their means. The do expect government to do for them many things some suggest are "socialistic". They expect social security to be their for them when they retire. That means increasing payroll taxes on wealthy workers. They want medicare and medicade to be properly funded. They want access to health care for everyone..not just the healthy and wealthy. I have great health insurance. Others could have the same if they cannot afford it the government should consider subsidizing the premiums at a level that makes it affordable. American's DO NOT want socialized medicine. The DO NOT want a Canadian or British like system or any single payer scheme to be put into law. That would only make matters worse and lead to health care rationing. We can improve access to health care by opening up access to everyone regardless of health, mandating that insurance cover virtually everything that is currently covered by the best of health plans and subsidizing the premiums for those who can not afford them. They also want government to regulate industry to keep them honest and prevent the kind of financial meltdowns that has recently occurred in the banking and brokerage industry. They want the greedy arrogant men (and women) who do such things brought to justice and sent away to prison for a very very long time! They also want laws on the books to keep this sort of thing from ever happening again. They want us out of Iraq (but they want it done right) and they want us to go after Usama Bin Laden ASAP!!! They want the Talidan to be defeated completely and then they want us to get out of Afghanistan ASAP. Complete the mission and leave!

Now there are other things I could mention but those seem like good places to start. I doubt the party will do those things. But if they could do them I for one would seriously consider becoming a republican. I am sure many others conservative democrats like myself would follow.

Max
 
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Secundulus

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3. Stop pandering to the religious right. It makes you look silly and most American's DO NOT support their agenda.
Personally, I think you are correct. If the Republicans want to win they have to pander to the culture and not to the "religious right". It is time for those of us in the religious right to acknowledge that America no longer shares our core values.

The question each of us to answer is whether or not we are willing to compromise our core religious values in order to achieve political power?

Do we really care who is in power if they are not representing our beliefs?

Is it worth saving the economy, or winning the war, or limiting immigration, if in the process you sell your soul?

Mark 8:37 (NASB95)
37 "What will a man give in exchange for his soul?"
 
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Boazonfire

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Boazonfire..."there is no such thing as being too conservative" Ok that would explain why the country elected President McCain and Vice President Palin last November...lol

Max

No Max, if the GOP would of ran a conservative against Obama instead of a RINO (MacCain) I believe we would of seen a different result. Besides, if the Republicans move any farther to the left, what would be the point of having a two party system?
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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Izadarri...I am from Louisiana so I can honestly tell Bobby Jendal would be a terrible choice for the republican party as their next presidential nominee. First of all he has done little of substance for the state. His only real contribution to the state so far was some over reaching ethics and an attempt to allow the states legislators have their way on 150 % pay increase. He waffled twice on the legislative pay raise issue. He is also way to conservative for mainstream america (which would come out quickly in any election) as for example opposing abortion even in cases to save the mothers life or preserve the health of the mother. He oppose stem cell research which is supported by over 60% of american voters. He has also made statements (before he was elected governor in 2007) that the Roman Catholic Church was the only "true church". That will not go over very well when the story breaks out. Of course if the republicans want to nominate him fine...maybe you could pair him up with Sarah Palin? I do not think they would be electable nationwide but I am sure the idea would have its supporters.

Max
Thanks for that information, Max. I'll check it out.

If you've read my earlier posts in this thread, you know I'm libertarian to libertarian conservative rather than a religious right type, and that I voted for Bob Barr on the Libertarian ticket (my state being deep blue, voting for McCain would've been just as much a protest vote). Who do you think might be a Republican I could support?
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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Personally, I think you are correct. If the Republicans want to win they have to pander to the culture and not to the "religious right". It is time for those of us in the religious right to acknowledge that America no longer shares our core values.

The question each of us to answer is whether or not we are willing to compromise our core religious values in order to achieve political power?

Do we really care who is in power if they are not representing our beliefs?

Is it worth saving the economy, or winning the war, or limiting immigration, if in the process you sell your soul?

Mark 8:37 (NASB95)
37 "What will a man give in exchange for his soul?"
There are some theological conservatives who don't see our core religious values as translating into a "religious right" political agenda. Ron Paul is a "Christian conservative" too, but much more in my style. I think we could take some suggestions from Mr. Jim and Max, and be the better for it.
 
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MrJim

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No Max, if the GOP would of ran a conservative against Obama instead of a RINO (MacCain) I believe we would of seen a different result. Besides, if the Republicans move any farther to the left, what would be the point of having a two party system?

^_^
 
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Albion

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There wouldn't be much point in GOPs (or DEMs for that matter) "swinging to center". I think that's why "third parties" exist... doesn't it?

I don't know, I'm just not politically-minded like some of the rest of you.

Third Parties normally exist to pull away from the Center, to pull towards principle and away from equivocation or expediency.
 
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