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Should Revelations be studied?

LittleLambofJesus

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I agree.


The 'end' of FULfillment is here, but is there really an end to that fulfillment?:

1 Cor. 15:
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


We both know that all of us are rightfully entitled to our individual reflections on all matters. That is the territory of the realm of the subjective observers. I admit to what I reflect as being 'subjective' and never the 'whole' as that is not possible 'for me.'


I would agree that there is a double standard regarding the 'amill' portion, but the RCC certainly does not embrace the typical 'full preterism' views that I know of so they get a by.
That is probably because they and non-Catholic Amills view the 2nd Coming/Advent of Jesus as the event of Gog/Magog.

Afterall, to be an orthodox creedal Christian, one has to believe in the future return of Jesus and final Judgement.

The question is, does Jesus return BEFORE or AFTER that sybolic 1000 yr period or BOTH?. I also have a thread on that :wave:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7396885/
What is the purpose of the 1000yr period in Revelation?
 
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squint

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That is probably because they and non-Catholic Amills view the 2nd Coming/Advent of Jesus as the event of Gog/Magog.

Afterall, to be an orthodox creedal Christian, one has to believe in the future return of Jesus and final Judgement.

The question is, does Jesus return BEFORE or AFTER that sybolic 1000 yr period or BOTH?. I also have a thread on that :wave:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7396885/
What is the purpose of the 1000yr period in Revelation?

We all know Rev. is a tough gig. I've been 'on it' for nearly 3 decades and I know less today than when I started. I have studied it from about every angle out there though.

I believe that the FULL RETURN of God in Christ will be when SIN, EVIL AND eventually DEATH are taken away from mankind and God dwells IN US without their influences upon us.

Til then we shine as lights 'in the midst' of darkness.

Then there will be no darkness for His children.
 
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Yarddog

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Even move, do you think that Revelations is important to salvation and our mission to preach the gospel?
I think it depends on how one uses Revelation more than if it is important for our salvation.

If someone has never read the book, it would not matter towards their salvation but I think too many people have used or misused the book to pass judgment on other Christians and to those who do so wrongly, they only bring judgment upon themselves.

I have read Revelation but I do not try to understand it. If God wants to reveal something to me, I will surely take it, but when we try to understand scripture with our own minds, we leave open the chance to misinterpretation. And that can be harmful.

I have had many cases of hearing God's voice and revelation of scripture but once I was in a discussion about scripture and Revelation came up. I turned to the book ans began to read and the God spoke and said that I was not called into prophesy but into faith. I also knew that what the message was about. If I truly have faith, when the time comes I will know what to do, because the Holy Spirit will be my guide. It is my calling to strengthen my faith at all times.

Always seek to get closer to God.
Yarddog

For those called into prophesy, by God, follow your calling.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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*snip*
.............Most full preterists also present a TWO GOSPEL position. One for the Jews and one for the Gentiles, which is again a very marginal position.

Full preterism has many holes to say the least.
I am assuming you mean the Gospel of JESUS [GRACE] and the Gosple of Moses [LAW].

Take a gander at Gala 1:8 and 1 Corin 9:16. Did Jesus come to the Israelites/Jews to keep them under the Law or release them from the Bondage of it?

Btw, that same greek word Paul uses in Gala 1 for "anathema" is also used in Reve 22:3 Thoughts.

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Gala 1:8 But also if-ever we or a messenger out of heaven should be well-messaging to ye beside which we well-messagizing to ye, anathema/anaqema <331> let him be.
9 As we have declared before and at present again I am saying if any is well-messagizing beside which ye beside got, anathema let him be.

Reve 22:3 and every anathema/kat-anaqema <2652> not shall be still. And the throne of the God/YHWH and of the Lamb-kin/Word in Her shall be, and His bond-servants shall be offering divine-service to Him.

1 Corin 9:16 For ifever I may be well-messagizing/euaggelizwmai <2097> (5735) not it is to me a boast for necessity of me is lying on.
For woe! to me it is ifever no I should well-messagizing/euaggelizwmai <2097> (5735).
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I think it depends on how one uses Revelation more than if it is important for our salvation.

If someone has never read the book, it would not matter towards their salvation but I think too many people have used or misused the book to pass judgment on other Christians and to those who do so wrongly, they only bring judgment upon themselves.

I have read Revelation but I do not try to understand it. If God wants to reveal something to me, I will surely take it, but when we try to understand scripture with our own minds, we leave open the chance to misinterpretation. And that can be harmful.

I have had many cases of hearing God's voice and revelation of scripture but once I was in a discussion about scripture and Revelation came up. I turned to the book ans began to read and the God spoke and said that I was not called into prophesy but into faith. I also knew that what the message was about. If I truly have faith, when the time comes I will know what to do, because the Holy Spirit will be my guide. It is my calling to strengthen my faith at all times.

Always seek to get closer to God.
Yarddog

For those called into prophesy, by God, follow your calling.
Thank you for that interesting post. The "Uncovering/Revealing" is a Prophecy.

It is now more of just a matter of INTERPRETING it. :thumbsup:

Luke 21:31 "Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these these becoming, ye are knowing that NIGH/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God."

Reve 1:3 Happy the one reading and the ones hearing the Words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been Written, for the Time NIGH/egguV <1451>. [Reve 22:6,10]
 
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squint

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I am assuming you mean the Gospel of JESUS [GRACE] and the Gosple of Moses [LAW].

Take a gander at Gala 1:8 and 1 Corin 9:16. Did Jesus come to the Israelites/Jews to keep them under the Law or release them from the Bondage of it?

You already know my own reflections on these matters if you've been reading. All vessels of dishonor are the 'lawless' and for them the LAW has not been removed. WE ALL have vessel(s) of dishonor within our flesh and THEY are not released from the Law. The LAW stands therefore FIRMLY ENTRENCHED against ALL lawlessness. Grace and Truth is even MORE entrenched against those workings of lawlessness and will be so forever.

Btw, that same greek word Paul uses in Gala 1 for "anathema" is also used in Reve 22:3 Thoughts.

IF God has elected in this present life to raise a VESSEL OF DISHONOR in the flesh/mind of a man, THAT MAN stands anathematized or accursed NO MATTER WHAT. There is NO HOPE of SALVATION for ANY VESSEL OF DISHONOR. However this does certainly NOT preclude a vessel of honor also being present in that mind/body CARRYING that other vessel to ultimate judgment before God. This really is the fate of all Gods offspring, that we may learn of long suffering, hope and the receipt of DIVINE MERCY. Those who are called out/elect in this present life will know the 'differences' in these matters.

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Gala 1:8 But also if-ever we or a messenger out of heaven should be well-messaging to ye beside which we well-messagizing to ye, anathema/anaqema <331> let him be.
9 As we have declared before and at present again I am saying if any is well-messagizing beside which ye beside got, anathema let him be.

Reve 22:3 and every anathema/kat-anaqema <2652> not shall be still. And the throne of the God/YHWH and of the Lamb-kin/Word in Her shall be, and His bond-servants shall be offering divine-service to Him.

1 Corin 9:16 For ifever I may be well-messagizing/euaggelizwmai <2097> (5735) not it is to me a boast for necessity of me is lying on.
For woe! to me it is ifever no I should well-messagizing/euaggelizwmai <2097> (5735).

When Jesus or Paul preached the Cross, they also left a portion for all of us who believe to likewise fulfill in ourselves. We all carry our own worst enemies to that fate.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You already know my own reflections on these matters if you've been reading. All vessels of dishonor are the 'lawless' and for them the LAW has not been removed. WE ALL have vessel(s) of dishonor within our flesh and THEY are not released from the Law. The LAW stands therefore FIRMLY ENTRENCHED against ALL lawlessness. Grace and Truth is even MORE entrenched against those workings of lawlessness and will be so forever.

IF God has elected in this present life to raise a VESSEL OF DISHONOR in the flesh/mind of a man, THAT MAN stands anathematized or accursed NO MATTER WHAT. There is NO HOPE of SALVATION for ANY VESSEL OF DISHONOR. However this does certainly NOT preclude a vessel of honor also being present in that mind/body CARRYING that other vessel to ultimate judgment before God. This really is the fate of all Gods offspring, that we may learn of long suffering, hope and the receipt of DIVINE MERCY. Those who are called out/elect in this present life will know the 'differences' in these matters.

When Jesus or Paul preached the Cross, they also left a portion for all of us who believe to likewise fulfill in ourselves. We all carry our own worst enemies to that fate.
Yes, Jesus mentioned something about "enemies" in Luke 19.

I prefer these kinds of threads over the "Sabbath" threads being started by SDA's on the GT board lately.

I view this as the event in Revelation, as this is what this thread is about. [btw, did you look at my Matthew 24 thread yet?]

I find it best to harmonize Revelation with the WHOLE Bible instead of just one event such as Daniel or Revelation.

I also have a thread on this, and if I am not mistaken, the Catholic church views old pagan Rome in Revelation and one reason they view themselves in the Millenium [at least that is what I was told by a Catholic some time ago]. :wave:

Luke 19:41 And as He nears being aware the City He laments upon Her
42 saying "that if thou knew and thou even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon thee and thy enemies shall be casting up a siege-work to thee and shall be encompassing thee and pressing thee every which place.
44 and they shall be leveling thee and the offspring of thee in thee and not they shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee stead which not thou knew the time of the visitation of thee.

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "she falls she falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations. [Jeremiah 51:8]

DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City - Page 2 - Christian Forums
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Should Revelations be studied?
Let me ask this. How many Christians here on CF have studied Revelation using strictly the BIBLE ONLY? Thanks :wave:
 
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Stryder06

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I found the answer to your question in the bible.



1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.


this is the answer to your question. Agreed?

Yeah, I'm in complete agreement here, but I wanted to see what others had to say about it. A recent conversation in a different forum lead me to wonder how many people thought it unnecessary, thus I started this thread.
 
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Stryder06

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I think there are lessons to be learned from Revelation, but I don't think it is a step by step blueprint of what has/will/may happen.

Have you compared the prophecies of Revelation with the prophecies of Daniel, and than with history?
 
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Stryder06

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:amen:.... but I know for sure my SDA friends dont agree. What they call "THE THREE ANGEL'S MESSAGE is their gospel for today.



In Seventh-day Adventist beliefs, the "three angels' messages" is an interpretation of the messages given by three angels in Revelation 14:6-12. The church teaches that these messages are given to prepare the world for the second coming of Jesus Christ, and sees them as a central part of its own mission.


Actually it's the third angel's message that is applicable for today. We teach all three however so that others can understand the history of these messages and see where we are in the time frame of Earth's history.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Have you compared the prophecies of Revelation with the prophecies of Daniel, and than with history?
I have and why I view the Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the same event and go together like "white on rice"

The problem is getting the Jews of today to also read Revelation as a fulfillment of their own OT/OC Prophecies.

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings the in it having been written, for the time nigh.

Matt 24:15 "Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation the being declared thru Daniel the Prophet having stood in a place, holy (the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) let be understanding!/noeitw <3539> (5720) [Mark 13:14]
 
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Stryder06

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I think it depends on how one uses Revelation more than if it is important for our salvation.

If someone has never read the book, it would not matter towards their salvation but I think too many people have used or misused the book to pass judgment on other Christians and to those who do so wrongly, they only bring judgment upon themselves.

I have read Revelation but I do not try to understand it. If God wants to reveal something to me, I will surely take it, but when we try to understand scripture with our own minds, we leave open the chance to misinterpretation. And that can be harmful.

I have had many cases of hearing God's voice and revelation of scripture but once I was in a discussion about scripture and Revelation came up. I turned to the book ans began to read and the God spoke and said that I was not called into prophesy but into faith. I also knew that what the message was about. If I truly have faith, when the time comes I will know what to do, because the Holy Spirit will be my guide. It is my calling to strengthen my faith at all times.

Always seek to get closer to God.
Yarddog

For those called into prophesy, by God, follow your calling.

I understand what you're saying here. The thing is that God could be trying to talk to you about Revelation, but you'll never find out if you don't get into the book. The prophecy has already been given. We just have to dig deep to understand it, and by the grace of God I can promise you that he'll reveal it.

I'm no prophet, but I can't express how important it is to me to understand the books of Revelation and Daniel.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I understand what you're saying here. The thing is that God could be trying to talk to you about Revelation, but you'll never find out if you don't get into the book. The prophecy has already been given. We just have to dig deep to understand it, and by the grace of God I can promise you that he'll reveal it.

I'm no prophet, but I can't express how important it is to me to understand the books of Revelation and Daniel.
Greetings Stryder. Is yer Siggy large enough? :D
 
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Stryder06

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Greetings Stryder. Is yer Siggy large enough? :D

LMBO ^_^

You know after I finished adding everything and saw it I was like "Well LLOJ has like 12 pics in his so the "length" shouldn't be a problem"

I figure if anyone wants a snap shot of what I believe on must things they just have to read my sig :thumbsup:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LMBO ^_^

You know after I finished adding everything and saw it I was like "Well LLOJ has like 12 pics in his so the "length" shouldn't be a problem"

I figure if anyone wants a snap shot of what I believe on must things they just have to read my sig :thumbsup:
All those Font colors look similar to a certain Catholic poster whom I shall not mention.

They are hard on me eyes but I copied it to word pad to better read it in regular font.

Sorry to say I have never read E.G. White's writings, nor do I ever intend to. No offense :wave:

edit add: siggy message deleted by LLOJ since it was copied in a another post........
 
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Celticflower

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Have you compared the prophecies of Revelation with the prophecies of Daniel, and than with history?

It has been quite awhile since I have, but putting things in context and finding correlations within scripture can only help.

My problem with the way most people approach Rev. is they see it as a stand alone book giving a step by step plan for the end of all things. From there they begin to make comparisons (many of which are a major stretch) to things of today. Then they start setting dates and working on people's fears. And when the date passes or world situations change and nothing happens, they pull a Hal Lindsey and "update" their interpretation/dates and pull a new crop of people into their fear cage, as well as rake in more money from the updated re-issue of their book that lays the whole thing out.

Personally, I'm not overly concerned with when Christ will return. I don't spend my time looking for the fulfillment of old prophecies or speculating on who is the Anti-Christ. I see too much work to be done right in front of my nose to spend time searching the skies for the big moment.
 
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Stryder06

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All those Font colors look similar to a certain Catholic poster whom I shall not mention.

They are hard on me eyes but I copied it to word pad to better read it in regular font.

Sorry to say I have never read E.G. White's writings, nor do I ever intend to. No offense :wave:

---------------------------------------------------

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters...

"We may disguise poison by mingling it with wholesome food, but we do not change its nature. On the contrary, it is rendered more dangerous, as it is more likely to be taken unawares. It is one of Satan's devices to combine with falsehood, just enough truth to give it plausibility." E.G. White The Great Controversy

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
"The Reason why He does not oftener choose men of learning and high position is, that they trust and feel no need to be taught of God. Only those who have a personal connection with the Source of wisdom are able to understand or explain the Scriptures. Men who have little of the learning of the schools are called to declare the truth, not because they are unlearned, but because they are not too self-sufficient to be taught of God. They learn in the school of Christ and their humility and obedience make them great." E.G. White The Great Controversy

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

"...They should cause those to fear and tremble who flippantly declare it a matter of little consequence whether we obey God's law or not. All who exalt their own opinions above the written word, all who would change the plain meaning of Scripture to suit their own convenience, or for the sake of conformity to the world, are taking upon themeselves a fearful responsibility. The written word, the law of God, will measure the character of every man, and condemn all whom this unerring test shall declare wanting." E.G. White The Great Controversy


Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.​

No problem. Sorry the font color hurts your eyes. You don't have to read the comments from Sr. White, although I highly recommend you do. There are however scriptural verses there that you are more than welcome to read.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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No problem. Sorry the font color hurts your eyes. You don't have to read the comments from Sr. White, although I highly recommend you do. There are however scriptural verses there that you are more than welcome to read.
Thank you. I haven't read the writings of the Mormon's prophet Joseph Smith either nor do I ever intend to.
I am strictly SOLO SCRIPTURA whenever possible......which seems to be anathema to the Catholics and other Apostolic Churches. :wave:
 
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Stryder06

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It has been quite awhile since I have, but putting things in context and finding correlations within scripture can only help.

My problem with the way most people approach Rev. is they see it as a stand alone book giving a step by step plan for the end of all things. From there they begin to make comparisons (many of which are a major stretch) to things of today. Then they start setting dates and working on people's fears. And when the date passes or world situations change and nothing happens, they pull a Hal Lindsey and "update" their interpretation/dates and pull a new crop of people into their fear cage, as well as rake in more money from the updated re-issue of their book that lays the whole thing out.

Personally, I'm not overly concerned with when Christ will return. I don't spend my time looking for the fulfillment of old prophecies or speculating on who is the Anti-Christ. I see too much work to be done right in front of my nose to spend time searching the skies for the big moment.

You're viewpoint is understandable. And you right, people shouldn't set times, or prey on the fears of others by trying to use the book of Revelation to manipulate them.

I however love prophecy, because it is the one thing that can't be disputed. It helps to validate the bible to those who don't believe, and it works to strengthen the faith, and edify the believer.

With respect to Revelation, it shows us God's hand in the affairs of man. It also shows us that the time is coming when an ultimate stand for or against God must be made, and that the wicked will receive just punishment, while the righteous will be protected. God gave us this book so that we wouldn't be left unawares of what is to come.
 
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