Should Messianic Jews support Jerusalem Third Temple?

[ToBeLoved]

Recommendation: Never come against anything dedicated to Yahweh. Once it has been dedicated to him, it belongs to him. Remember Korath and his followers, who rebelled against Moses. The censors they made were not swallowed up with them into the earth.

Numbers 16:36-38 KJV
36 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
37 Speak unto Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest, that he take up the censers out of the burning, and scatter thou the fire yonder; for they are hallowed.
38 The censers of these sinners against their own souls, let them make them broad plates for a covering of the altar: for they offered them before the LORD, therefore they are hallowed:

Leviticus 27:28 ESV
“But no devoted thing that a man devotes to the Lord, of anything that he has, whether man or beast, or of his inherited field, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted thing is most holy to the Lord.

What do you think could ever be dedicated that could be more precious to God than the Son He already sent to redeem the world?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorified form is fulfilling the Cyrus
prophecy every day when he meets with people from all religions and
all walks of life, (even Atheists like Howard Storm), and reviews their lives
with them.

But that fact does not negate.........what Grant R. Jeffrey Ph. D. wrote on this:

So you are basing your beliefs off of Near Death Experiences over the Word of God? Please explain.

 

[dfw69]

Ezekiel 40-48 temple will be built by Yahshua when he returns and the Jews will receive him as he who comes in the name of Yahwah, His king and high priest...

Yahshua will establish which feast and sacrifices to observe... to do otherwise before the time is a violation against Yahshua... we all should wait on him as he required his followers to do

 

[pat34lee]

What do you think could ever be dedicated that could be more precious to God than the Son He already sent to redeem the world?

He will be there too. The high priest and king.

 

[DennisTate]

So you are basing your beliefs off of Near Death Experiences over the Word of God? Please explain.

John 16:25

"These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

Also 2 Corinthians 12:2
2 Corinthians 12:3
and 2 Corinthians 12:4

 

[ToBeLoved]

John 16:25

"These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

Also 2 Corinthians 12:2
2 Corinthians 12:3
and 2 Corinthians 12:4

So you are comparing the apostle Paul which is in scripture to NDE's?

 

[DennisTate]

So you are comparing the apostle Paul which is in scripture to NDE's?

Yes......
that is exactly what I am wondering about?

Did Paul have an out of the body experience or near death experience when he had been
stoned to death, but only appeared dead????

Or was II Corinthians 12:2-4 based perhaps on a conversation that might have had with Lazarus, or another Christian who may have had an experience like Lazarus???

 

[DennisTate]

What do you think could ever be dedicated that could be more precious to God than the Son He already sent to redeem the world?

True..... but isn't it possible that as
actual Levites perform actual rituals in the restored Third Temple that
a shocking number of other Levites and Jewish Israelis will notice the amazing
similarities to some aspects of the sacrifice of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and become
believers?

There is joy in the presence of angels over one sinner who repents......
is it God the FAther and the Holy Spirit rejoicing????

 

[DennisTate]

So you are basing your beliefs off of Near Death Experiences over the Word of God? Please explain.

Actually, I find that near death experience accounts are helping me to understand the Christian and Jewish scriptures in a new light that I am 99.9% certain is much more accurate than how I looked at scriptures before beginning to read near death experiences.

I had been taught a very dogmatic and simplistic "soul sleep" theory that I am now certain was terribly in error.

 

[BABerean2]

I had been taught a very dogmatic and simplistic "soul sleep" theory that I am now certain was terribly in error.

You are correct.

We have a body and a soul.

If you want to see "soul sleep" proponents squirm, start talking to them about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 3:16)

Mat_10:28　 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

.

 

[DennisTate]

You are correct.

We have a body and a soul.

If you want to see "soul sleep" proponents squirm, start talking to them about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 3:16)

Mat_10:28　 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

.

Although I felt that the version of "soul sleep" that Mr. Garner Ted Armstrong taught
seemed more humane than the saved vs lost/ heaven vs hell theology that I had heard
as a child.......
I was continually running into scriptures that made me question how simplistic
the teaching was......

For example:

Revelation 6:9

¶
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

This did not fit so well with the idea of Christians sleeping until the seventh trumpet was blown at the fulfillment of Zechariah 14 and I Corinthians 15????

 

[miknik5]

You are correct.

We have a body and a soul.

If you want to see "soul sleep" proponents squirm, start talking to them about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 3:16)

Mat_10:28　 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

.

Why?

Why would "soul" proponents squirm about the HOLY SPIRIT at all

If they know and are known to the ONE who is the OVERSEER of our soul, why would they squirm?

 

[miknik5]

We have a body a soul and a spirit
And the ONE who keeps us is able to keep us blameless (body. Soul. Spirit) to the day we stand before HIM
(1 Thessalonians 5)

 

[miknik5]

Although I felt that the version of "soul sleep" that Mr. Garner Ted Armstrong taught
seemed more humane than the saved vs lost/ heaven vs hell theology that I had heard
as a child.......
I was continually running into scriptures that made me question how simplistic
the teaching was......

For example:

Revelation 6:9

¶
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

This did not fit so well with the idea of Christians sleeping until the seventh trumpet was blown at the fulfillment of Zechariah 14 and I Corinthians 15????

Where's these sleeping Christians bodies? Why are they told to wait. And why are they clothed in "white robes"?

And what TESTIMONY do all these souls have in common?

 

[BABerean2]

Why?

Why would "soul" proponents squirm about the HOLY SPIRIT at all

If they know and are known to the ONE who is the OVERSEER of our soul, why would they squirm?

I did not say "soul" proponents.

I said "soul sleep" proponents, as in JW, who claim the word "soul" means body.

If a person is only a body, then it cannot be indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

.

 

[DennisTate]

Where's these sleeping Christians bodies? Why are they told to wait. And why are they clothed in "white robes"?

And what TESTIMONY do all these souls have in common?

I could be wrong... but I am wide open to the possibility that the visionary dream of heaven
given to Pastor Rick Joyner back in 1995 gives an excellent answer to these questions?!

 

[miknik5]

I did not say "soul" proponents.

I said "soul sleep" proponents, as in JW, who claim the word "soul" means body.

If a person is only a body, then it cannot be indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

.

I know you said "soul sleep" proponents. However what is the difference if one is asleep or presently ( physically) alive if they are in CHRIST?

A soul is a soul whether physically alive or physically dead

Further, absent from the physical body is present with the LORD

And that not the physical visible body but the invisible soul (and spirit)

 

[miknik5]

I could be wrong... but I am wide open to the possibility that the visionary dream of heaven
given to Pastor Rick Joyner back in 1995 gives an excellent answer to these questions?!

Yes. You could be wrong.

 

[Josephus]

The Temple sacrifices never competed with the the work of Jesus. The services for each are entirely different, and apply to different jurisdictions, and applications that have absolutely no overlap whatsoever. One (earthly) is patterned after the other (heavenly). One (earthly) is dependent on the other (heavenly). But the existence of one and its services never nullified the existence and services of the other or vice versa.

This is why the sacrifices of animals never dealt with the heavenly requirements of having a circumcised heart, or earning a place in the world to come by one's merit. This is also why the blood of Jesus would have been anathema if offered in the earthly temple, but was accepted in heaven as a payment where the death of the righteousness atones for the world. There is no animal sacrifice that brings one into the World to Come, and the death of Messiah doesn't nullify a Jew's obligation to bring animal sacrifice to the earthly temple for a nazirite vow if a temple exists, one is a Jew, and is in the Land of Israel like Paul the Apostle did and paid for others to do so too at the leading of the Jerusalem Council (Acts 21:24,26).

Bear in mind any theology that deals with determining a "need" for a temple, must be 100% congruent with the following realities:

1. The earthly temple and its services did not exist for thousands of years after the Creation of the World.
2. The earthly temple and its services did not exist for 70 years during the Babylonian exile.
3. The earthly temple and its services continued to exist for 40 years after the death of Jesus.
4. The earthly temple will be rebuilt at some point in the future by King Messiah according to prophecy.

Remember, there are two temples: one in heaven, and one earth made in the pattern of the one in heaven. But their services never nullified each other.

What most people do not realize is that the sacrifices in the earthly temple didn't nullify the work of the heavenly temple, and vice versa. There is no conflict, no overlap. The earthly one allows someone on earth to draw physically near to G-d, especially in this fallen world, where the mere presence of glory of G-d in all his majesty could cause instant death to those not ready. The heavenly one allows one to draw near to G-d on a spiritual level and in the World to Come - and often one's service in the heavenly temple is required before one can even render service in the earthly, else the earthly service would not be accepted. Two different jurisdictions, else there would have been just one temple for all time with no need for an earthly.

I think when people think about the earthly temple, that they completely misunderstand what a gift of G-d it was to a fallen world to be able to literally be before G-d at his doorstep. Granted anyone can pray anywhere, but it is only in Jerusalem, at The Place that G-d has his Name, where we can truly "draw near" to G-d in a real, physical, tangible way, in this life now - and not die. Sadly, it has been taken away from us because of our sins as a nation of Jews - lashon hara, evil speech, sinat onam, unjustified hatred... against the Messiah our King, of all people.

 

[miknik5]

The Temple sacrifices never competed with the the work of Jesus. The services for each are entirely different, and apply to different jurisdictions, and applications that have absolutely no overlap whatsoever. One (earthly) is patterned after the other (heavenly). One (earthly) is dependent on the other (heavenly). But the existence of one and its services never nullified the existence and services of the other or vice versa.

This is why the sacrifices of animals never dealt with the heavenly requirements of having a circumcised heart, or earning a place in the world to come by one's merit. This is also why the blood of Jesus would have been anathema if offered in the earthly temple, but was accepted in heaven as a payment where the death of the righteousness atones for the world. There is no animal sacrifice that brings one into the World to Come, and the death of Messiah doesn't nullify a Jew's obligation to bring animal sacrifice to the earthly temple for a nazirite vow if a temple exists, one is a Jew, and is in the Land of Israel like Paul the Apostle did and paid for others to do so too at the leading of the Jerusalem Council (Acts 21:24,26).

Bear in mind any theology that deals with determining a "need" for a temple, must be 100% congruent with the following realities:

1. The earthly temple and its services did not exist for thousands of years after the Creation of the World.
2. The earthly temple and its services did not exist for 70 years during the Babylonian exile.
3. The earthly temple and its services continued to exist for 40 years after the death of Jesus.
4. The earthly temple will be rebuilt at some point in the future by King Messiah according to prophecy.

Remember, there are two temples: one in heaven, and one earth made in the pattern of the one in heaven. But their services never nullified each other.

What most people do not realize is that the sacrifices in the earthly temple didn't nullify the work of the heavenly temple, and vice versa. There is no conflict, no overlap. The earthly one allows someone on earth to draw physically near to G-d, especially in this fallen world, where the mere presence of glory of G-d in all his majesty could cause instant death to those not ready. The heavenly one allows one to draw near to G-d on a spiritual level and in the World to Come - and often one's service in the heavenly temple is required before one can even render service in the earthly, else the earthly service would not be accepted. Two different jurisdictions, else there would have been just one temple for all time with no need for an earthly.

I think when people think about the earthly temple, that they completely misunderstand what a gift of G-d it was to a fallen world to be able to literally be before G-d at his doorstep. Granted anyone can pray anywhere, but it is only in Jerusalem, at The Place that G-d has his Name, where we can truly "draw near" to G-d in a real, physical, tangible way, in this life now - and not die. Sadly, it has been taken away from us because of our sins as a nation of Jews - lashon hara, evil speech, sinat onam, unjustified hatred... against the Messiah our King, of all people.

It wasn't the temple that made one able to come into GOD's PRESENCE, it was the RIGHT COVERING