Should Messianic Jews support Jerusalem Third Temple?

[gadar perets]

My MAIN point is simply THEY SACRIFICED.

Minor points are: You don't know that they didn't take Nazarite vows after becoming Christians. You are completely inserting that into the text. If they were zealous for Torah, they would have continued to take Nazarite vows.

That they are not yet called Christians is an irrelevant point. They are of the Christ following movement of which the followers came to be called Christians.

You do agree that they were Jews that believed in Yeshua do you not?

I said it was a possibility, not a fact, that they took the vow before becoming believers. It is the best explanation as to why believers would sacrifice unless they were just ignorant that Yeshua fulfilled sacrifices. A Nazarite vow can last for years. It is perfectly reasonable to think they entered the vow before becoming believers.

So your belief is that when the temple is rebuilt in our future that believers will start sacrificing again?

 

[Open Heart]

So your belief is that when the temple is rebuilt in our future that believers will start sacrificing again?

Well, those of us who are zealous for Torah will. If you obey Torah, it includes doing the offerings it prescribes. No where in the NT does it say for Jewish believers to stop doing the Temple sacrifices.

The only question I still have is with regards to the sin offerings since the Moshiach has already atoned for us. I discussed this once with a group of MJ, including a Rabbi. The Rabbi said that if a third Temple is build we will likely have to rethink our theology. Just as the old sin offerings looked forward to Yeshua's atonement, so the new offerings will look back, like a memorial sacrifice.

For me, memorializing the Moshiach's atoning sacrifice is already what I as a Hebrew Catholic do in the Eucharist, so a sin offering in the Temple is not really necessary. But how would I feel about it as a Jew? I will likely be drawn to complete the Temple mitzvot just as I have a drive to observe all the rest of the mitzvot. Now, would my Church be open-minded enough to allow it in my lifetime? Goodness, my Church is barely getting used to Catholics separating meat from dairy and lighting shabbat candles! Anyhow, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there.

 

[DennisTate]

I don't know Martin luthers writtings

the faith that will be lost is faith that Yahshua is the promised messiah because many messiahs will come as well as false prophets in the name of prosemiticism

It is written that the children of Israel will become as the sands of the sea yet a remnant will come to serve Yahshua in the end... so an explosion of Judaism is prophecied and many will become one with Israel as the sands of the sea during the false messianic age

On the other hand.....
what you refer to as the "false Messianic age" could turn out to be the genuine
Cyrus Messianic Age.....
the fulfillment of Isaiah 45.....
(actually Isaiah 42 to
Isaiah 46 )

 

[DennisTate]

Well, those of us who are zealous for Torah will. If you obey Torah, it includes doing the offerings it prescribes. No where in the NT does it say for Jewish believers to stop doing the Temple sacrifices.

The only question I still have is with regards to the sin offerings since the Moshiach has already atoned for us. I discussed this once with a group of MJ, including a Rabbi. The Rabbi said that if a third Temple is build we will likely have to rethink our theology. Just as the old sin offerings looked forward to Yeshua's atonement, so the new offerings will look back, like a memorial sacrifice.

For me, memorializing the Moshiach's atoning sacrifice is already what I as a Hebrew Catholic do in the Eucharist, so a sin offering in the Temple is not really necessary. But how would I feel about it as a Jew? I will likely be drawn to complete the Temple mitzvot just as I have a drive to observe all the rest of the mitzvot. Now, would my Church be open-minded enough to allow it in my lifetime? Goodness, my Church is barely getting used to Catholics separating meat from dairy and lighting shabbat candles! Anyhow, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there.

I began a discussion a few months ago that I believe you will find fascinating.

In 1967 a young Catholic girl living in New York had a near death experience.....
was told during her NDE that she was actually Jewish......
and she emigrated to Israel and is highly observant.

Catholic near death experiencer told she was Jewish...moves to Israel.

 

[DennisTate]

I said it was a possibility, not a fact, that they took the vow before becoming believers. It is the best explanation as to why believers would sacrifice unless they were just ignorant that Yeshua fulfilled sacrifices. A Nazarite vow can last for years. It is perfectly reasonable to think they entered the vow before becoming believers.

So your belief is that when the temple is rebuilt in our future that believers will start sacrificing again?

Some believers in Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will
pay for sacrifices to be made on their behalf, or for their nation on the Temple Mount,
other believers will not feel free to do so.

Many Christians, Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles will be researching this question though for sure......

 

[dfw69]

On the other hand.....
what you refer to as the "false Messianic age" could turn out to be the genuine
Cyrus Messianic Age.....
the fulfillment of Isaiah 45.....
(actually Isaiah 42 to
Isaiah 46 )

I believe Cyrus was fulfilled

Isaiah 42-46 is Yahshua kingdom to fulfill

 

[miknik5]

Some believers in Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will
pay for sacrifices to be made on their behalf, or for their nation on the Temple Mount,
other believers will not feel free to do so.

Many Christians, Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles will be researching this question though for sure......

Read Ezra 3 and "pay careful attention to the foundation"

 

[gadar perets]

Well, those of us who are zealous for Torah will. If you obey Torah, it includes doing the offerings it prescribes. No where in the NT does it say for Jewish believers to stop doing the Temple sacrifices.

Do you believe Gentile believers should offer sacrifices at a rebuilt Temple?

 

[miknik5]

Can you please ask if she believes messianic believers should offer up sacrifices as well

 

[miknik5]

And does any BELIEVER (gentile or Jew) in CHRIST think they should be warning rather than encouraging Israelite Jews not to have a part in rebuilding or sacrificing in this temple

 

[ToBeLoved]

And does any BELIEVER (gentile or Jew) in CHRIST think they should be warning rather than encouraging Israelite Jews not to have a part in rebuilding or sacrificing in this temple

I think that we each need to know what the BIble says about the rebuilt temple and the caution that speaks to the very, very end of days when this happens. It will not be good for anyone, IMHO and will lead to much persecution and pain.

 

[miknik5]

I think that we each need to know what the BIble says about the rebuilt temple and the caution that speaks to the very, very end of days when this happens. It will not be good for anyone, IMHO and will lead to much persecution and pain.

Christians who forewarn their Jewish older brothers will be killed and considered hinderers of "god's work"

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[miknik5]

Who is going to kill these Christians that are preventing lowercase god’s work?

"Lower god's" workers

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[miknik5]

Nice doge and I see you do not want to answer the question.

Is thus beter

Those who think they are in service to GOD but by what they do make manifest that they do not know GOD

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[miknik5]

It also prevents you from bearing false witness, oh wait, no it doesn’t because you did.

Because you want me to charge it to a group of people

But I can't
Anyone who gives in and goes out by the sword and does what he should not do will manifest that he does not truly know his GOD

And yet, as it is written
Those destined for the sword ARE destined for the sword

Who they are ?

No
I don't know

But it will be those who will take offense by their brother and think themselves in service to GOD will rise above GOD and sit over GOD's judgement

When one was clearly told not to condemn, not to uproot, not to tear down

 

[pat34lee]

Recommendation: Never come against anything dedicated to Yahweh. Once it has been dedicated to him, it belongs to him. Remember Korath and his followers, who rebelled against Moses. The censors they made were not swallowed up with them into the earth.

Numbers 16:36-38 KJV
36 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
37 Speak unto Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest, that he take up the censers out of the burning, and scatter thou the fire yonder; for they are hallowed.
38 The censers of these sinners against their own souls, let them make them broad plates for a covering of the altar: for they offered them before the LORD, therefore they are hallowed:

Leviticus 27:28 ESV
“But no devoted thing that a man devotes to the Lord, of anything that he has, whether man or beast, or of his inherited field, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted thing is most holy to the Lord.

 

[DennisTate]

I believe Cyrus was fulfilled

Isaiah 42-46 is Yahshua kingdom to fulfill

Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorified form is fulfilling the Cyrus
prophecy every day when he meets with people from all religions and
all walks of life, (even Atheists like Howard Storm), and reviews their lives
with them.

But that fact does not negate.........what Grant R. Jeffrey Ph. D. wrote on this:

"The Sacrificial System Will Continue

One of the most perplexing ideas to students of Scripture is the idea that God intends that the annual feasts, along with animal sacrifice, will continue into the Millennium. Many Christians who have studied the prophetic portions of Zechariah 14, Isaiah 66, and Ezekiel 40 - 48, which clearly describe these Millennial worship ordinations, are confused by the idea. They ask, "Didn't the sacrifice of Christ eliminate animal sacrifices forever?"

............"Only the complete sacrifice of Jesus could ever totally atone for our sins. However, God clearly demanded the sacrifices from Adam to Christ. Those sacrifices were acts of obedience to the direct command of God, as well as acknowledgements of one's own personal sinfulness and need for God's forgiveness. Animal sacrifices covered the sins of the people temporarily until the prophesied Messiah would come and offer Himself once and for all as the necessary atonement for sin. If animal sacrifice can never atone for sin, why would God allow Israel to resume such sacrifice in the Third Temple, prior to Armageddon, and then demand that Israel continue such sacrifice in the Millennium? There are two reasons why I believe this is true."

First, the early Jewish - Christian Church continued to offer sacrifices in the first century.".......



.......Second, New Testament writers used the legal sacrificial system to illustrate very important points concerning Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.......

..... These examples of the way early Jewish believers used God's law to teach great love when He sacrificed His only Son on the cross will be repeated during the Millennium." (Grant R. Jeffrey, Messiah, War in the Middle East and the Road to Armageddon, page 317, 318 and 319)