Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

[Kaon]

One of the best arguments that I have ran into as to why
Christians should support the Orthodox Jewish community
in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple is
a statement by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus:

Luke 24:25

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"

So... all that the prophets have spoken would include Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 that
clearly describe the restored Jerusalem Third Temple as part of the Era of Messiah / Moshiach.... .the millennial rule of Messiah over all the earth.

Also:
Luke 13:35

"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Was Ezekiel blessed?

Did Ezekiel come in the name of the Lord?

Is Christianity relatively desolate due to our having forgotten the words of the Prophets?

If a 3rd temple is built, the real Antichrist will have a legitimate reason to rise and exploit the world; then It will emerge. The, then end (of the beginning) of this age (great tribulation to come).

The Jerusalem isn't even on this plane of existence yet; it will come with the Redeemer - as well as His Temple.

 

[Righttruth]

Daniel 12:1 and Revelations 12:7-8 have been interpreted to mean the same thing:

Daniel 12:
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

Revelations 12:
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.​

We know that Daniel chapter 11 refers to the antichrist:

Daniel 11:
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.


Daniel 12 clarifies Daniel 11:31:

Daniel 12:
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.




***pay attention to Daniel 12:11***

This is when the antichrist stops the DAILY SACRIFICES...

So, we know this speaks about the END, which is a time STILL TO COME, ahead of where we are now.

But somewhere before then, DAILY SACRIFICE will be happening and at the midpoint of Tribulation it will STOP.

The Jews ONLY offer DAILY SACRIFICE in the TEMPLE, and nowhere else. So for there to be a "Daily Sacrifice" happening for the antichrist to stop it, means there must be a REBUILT TEMPLE in place for the Daily Sacrifice to happen.

The Hebrew/Jews in their entire history have only done Daily sacrifice in their Temple and no place else. Verse 11 of chapter 12 is specific there will be Daily Sacrifice happening and it will stop at the midpoint of the Tribulation. That only means one thing. There must be a REBUILT TEMPLE in place to do Daily Sacrifice.

It is scriptural and going to happen whether you believe it or not!!

Daniel prophecy is about second temple that was rebuilt. Nothing about a third themple.

 

[prodromos]

No. (in response to the thread title)

 

[servantofiam]

Daniel prophecy is about second temple that was rebuilt. Nothing about a third themple.

I will give you a D for your effort.

Let's examine the key verses of chapter 12 in the Book of Daniel and see where this relates to which specific Temple.


Daniel 12:

2 At that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(Verse 2 is rather convincing this matches Revelation chapter 21 concerning the Great White Throne
Judgement which is at the END OF TIME here on this present earth. These 2 verses take place AFTER Armageddon.)

(The 2nd Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., and verse 2 speaks of a time that has not happened yet and is still a future event for you and myself,)

(This is clearly speaking about the future 3rd Temple, not the 2nd as you would like it to be).


4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:

(Verse 4 is clearly about the End of Time as in where we are now.)


6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

(Verses 6 and 7 clearly speak about the 7 year
Tribulation.)


8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

(Verses 8 and 9 clearly are speaking about the End of time again like in our present day time.)


These next verses are the 3 verses I began with that come after all of these other verses referring to those found written in the Book of Life = Great White Throne Judgement and the End of Time.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

(Verse 11 is clearly a reference to the THIRD REBUILT TEMPLE, not the 2nd as you suggest as it follows the theme of the Judgement, End of Times, and now these 3 verses speak of 1st half, midpoint, and 2nd half of the 7 year Tribulation.)

(This is solid scripture reference proving this is the THIRD REBUILT TEMPLE, or the Temple getting ready to be rebuilt.)


***Whoever taught YOU that Daniel was speaking about the 2nd Temple needs a psychological examination. And if you just assumed it meant the 2nd Temple by your own reasoning, there are so many clues in chapter 12 speaking about the END OF TIMES that it would take someone in complete DENIAL to not see the TRUTH!!

I've seen enough of your answers to believe you could be diagnosed as a Narcissist...which leads me to also believe you probably question if Yeshua was really God!!***

 

[DennisTate]

If a 3rd temple is built, the real Antichrist will have a legitimate reason to rise and exploit the world; then It will emerge. The, then end (of the beginning) of this age (great tribulation to come).

The Jerusalem isn't even on this plane of existence yet; it will come with the Redeemer - as well as His Temple.

But....... the question remains.......
do YOU fear the anti-Christ person........ more than you want to see the real feet of Moshiach
stand on the Mt of Olives, (whatever that means, because there could be hidden positive meaning in Zechariah 14 that will astonish all of us)!!!!???

Over the past year I listened to a LOT of youtube videos by former Skeptic and near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava and in my opinion........ Rabbi Alon Anava seem to have been BURNED with a fire comparable to Zechariah 14

And this shall be the plague wherewith Jehovah will smite all the peoples that have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their sockets, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

in that his entire approach to life....... to his place in the world and universe and possible Multiverse....... has been totally transformed!!!

It is as if his old carnal eyes have melted out of their sockets and he looks at everything different these days. In his own way he seems just as driven to attempt to assist the "lost" (as he would tend to define that term), as former Atheist Howard Storm or former drug addict Todd White!?

The full meaning of the fulfillment of Zechariah 14 may prepare the whole world for a shift in our motivations that builds the foundation for a shift in the nature of humans like:

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.



The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.



And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.



There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.



What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.



People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.



Animals lived with people, in harmony.

All of that page sure reminds me of extremely positive statements in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets!

 

[DennisTate]

I will give you a D for your effort.

Let's examine the key verses of chapter 12 in the Book of Daniel and see where this relates to which specific Temple.


Daniel 12:

2 At that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(Verse 2 is rather convincing this matches Revelation chapter 21 concerning the Great White Throne
Judgement which is at the END OF TIME here on this present earth. These 2 verses take place AFTER Armageddon.)

(The 2nd Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., and verse 2 speaks of a time that has not happened yet and is still a future event for you and myself,)

(This is clearly speaking about the future 3rd Temple, not the 2nd as you would like it to be).


4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:

(Verse 4 is clearly about the End of Time as in where we are now.)


6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

(Verses 6 and 7 clearly speak about the 7 year
Tribulation.)


8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

(Verses 8 and 9 clearly are speaking about the End of time again like in our present day time.)


These next verses are the 3 verses I began with that come after all of these other verses referring to those found written in the Book of Life = Great White Throne Judgement and the End of Time.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

(Verse 11 is clearly a reference to the THIRD REBUILT TEMPLE, not the 2nd as you suggest as it follows the theme of the Judgement, End of Times, and now these 3 verses speak of 1st half, midpoint, and 2nd half of the 7 year Tribulation.)

(This is solid scripture reference proving this is the THIRD REBUILT TEMPLE, or the Temple getting ready to be rebuilt.)


***Whoever taught YOU that Daniel was speaking about the 2nd Temple needs a psychological examination. And if you just assumed it meant the 2nd Temple by your own reasoning, there are so many clues in chapter 12 speaking about the END OF TIMES that it would take someone in complete DENIAL to not see the TRUTH!!

I've seen enough of your answers to believe you could be diagnosed as a Narcissist...which leads me to also believe you probably question if Yeshua was really God!!***

Your understanding of the scriptures that you quoted is very similar to my own! Thank you for this reply because I find it quite encouraging!

Do you see any serious errors in my reasoning in my last post #505?

 

[DennisTate]

No. (in response to the thread title)

I would appreciate it if you would read my reply #505 and see if this causes you to begin to at least reconsider your answer.

 

[prodromos]

I would appreciate it if you would read my reply #505 and see if this causes you to begin to at least reconsider your answer.

That which has been prophesied will happen in God's own time. We should be prepared for when they happen, but to support the building of the temple seems to be an attempt at forcing God's hand.

 

[DennisTate]

That which has been prophesied will happen in God's own time. We should be prepared for when they happen, but to support the building of the temple seems to be an attempt at forcing God's hand.

I have to admit that your logic is obvious..........
I would recommend doing searches for the name Moshiach ben Ephraim or Messiah son of Joseph and compare what you read with Isaiah 42
to Isaiah 46
especially Isaiah 45
because the Cyrus type.......... does not know G-d..... and therefore cannot exclusively refer to Messiah Yeshua - Jesus but instead sure seems to me to mean a human being........ who is led to support the Jewish people in their desire to fulfill all of Ezekiel 40 -
Ezekiel 48
especially Ezekiel 47
which to my thinking will be critical to saving BILLIONS of infinitely precious human lives..... (and also much cattle)!?


And although this may seem irrelevant to many.....
it makes sense to me that our present impending monetary crisis
does in fact seem to be related to this question.........

4.3 trillion USA petrodollars in the hands of China, Iran, George Soros, Europe and to a degree plutocrats in Russia who could potentially be persuaded to make an all out attack on the value of the USA dollar.

Thirty five trillion.... the valuation placed on oil and natural gas reserves in the warming Arctic that interest both Russia as well as China.

One hundred and seventeen trillion..... The number of DERIVATIVES created by less than brilliant.... and less than entirely altruistic people who have a great deal of control over Wall Street.

Agreement of the Trump administration with the Orthodox Jewish Sanhedrin to rebuild the Jerusalem Third Temple and / or the Ezekiel Temple could give the USA and Israel a whole new level of unity that in my opinion can be used to diffuse. the impending financial crisis?!

A Pastor Shane Warren was given a rather scary dream of a Hurricane of one dollar USA notes.... back around 2011 that I believe should be taken seriously.

 

[Kaon]

But....... the question remains.......
do YOU fear the anti-Christ person........ more than you want to see the real feet of Moshiach
stand on the Mt of Olives, (whatever that means, because there could be hidden positive meaning in Zechariah 14 that will astonish all of us)!!!!???

No.

When you have fought actual demons, and seeing them up close, you get experience in recognizing and dealing with these entities. They have the same spiel and motive. They have exploited the same human ignorance since the beginning. My Father educates me on the enemy, and trains me. He does this with everyone but most times we are too ignorant, or sensitive to realize it.

The only thing different today than in the antediluvian world where the fallen and hybrids roamed free as gods is that The entities to come won't trade knowledge (magic and science) with us in exchange for parts of our soul - they will try to consume the lot of us.

Considering many Christians don't believe in demons, those verses about fear and hearts failing us for fear seem more to do with the shock professing Christians will have when these entities reveal themselves.

Over the past year I listened to a LOT of youtube videos by former Skeptic and near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava and in my opinion........ Rabbi Alon Anava seem to have been BURNED with a fire comparable to Zechariah 14
in that his entire approach to life....... to his place in the world and universe and possible Multiverse....... has been totally transformed!!!

He was blessed that he got to get that perspective, but do you see why every human is responsible for their own spiritual trajectory? This is a big reason why I am antagonistic against canonicity and ecumenism. Let every human develop their relationship uniquely with our Father.

It is as if his old carnal eyes have melted out of their sockets and he looks at everything different these days. In his own way he seems just as driven to attempt to assist the "lost" (as he would tend to define that term), as former Atheist Howard Storm or former drug addict Todd White!?

The full meaning of the fulfillment of Zechariah 14 may prepare the whole world for a shift in our motivations that builds the foundation for a shift in the nature of humans like:

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience



All of that page sure reminds me of extremely positive statements in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets!

People's "motivation" wont change; it will get worse, and then only look bad to the remnant (everyone else would have been broken to complacency, even love and acceptance of the new BEASTLY paradigm). It has already been prophesied that most everyone will not shift their motivations because they don't even know where to shift them to except what has been prepared for them. The "billions" of Christians will become a remnant - through exposure, fear, circumstance or a combination. You can't fight an enemy you vehemently deny exists. And, even if you think it exists, it is ignorant to vehemently deny how armed your enemy is.

 

[Righttruth]

I will give you a D for your effort.

Let's examine the key verses of chapter 12 in the Book of Daniel and see where this relates to which specific Temple.


Daniel 12:

2 At that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(Verse 2 is rather convincing this matches Revelation chapter 21 concerning the Great White Throne
Judgement which is at the END OF TIME here on this present earth. These 2 verses take place AFTER Armageddon.)

(The 2nd Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., and verse 2 speaks of a time that has not happened yet and is still a future event for you and myself,)

(This is clearly speaking about the future 3rd Temple, not the 2nd as you would like it to be).


4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:

(Verse 4 is clearly about the End of Time as in where we are now.)


6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

(Verses 6 and 7 clearly speak about the 7 year
Tribulation.)


8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

(Verses 8 and 9 clearly are speaking about the End of time again like in our present day time.)


These next verses are the 3 verses I began with that come after all of these other verses referring to those found written in the Book of Life = Great White Throne Judgement and the End of Time.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

(Verse 11 is clearly a reference to the THIRD REBUILT TEMPLE, not the 2nd as you suggest as it follows the theme of the Judgement, End of Times, and now these 3 verses speak of 1st half, midpoint, and 2nd half of the 7 year Tribulation.)

(This is solid scripture reference proving this is the THIRD REBUILT TEMPLE, or the Temple getting ready to be rebuilt.)


***Whoever taught YOU that Daniel was speaking about the 2nd Temple needs a psychological examination. And if you just assumed it meant the 2nd Temple by your own reasoning, there are so many clues in chapter 12 speaking about the END OF TIMES that it would take someone in complete DENIAL to not see the TRUTH!!

I've seen enough of your answers to believe you could be diagnosed as a Narcissist...which leads me to also believe you probably question if Yeshua was really God!!***

We are not qualified to interpret old prophecies, so also the new one in the NT. Let us not admire speculation galore!

 

[DennisTate]

No.

When you have fought actual demons, and seeing them up close, you get experience in recognizing and dealing with these entities. They have the same spiel and motive. They have exploited the same human ignorance since the beginning. My Father educates me on the enemy, and trains me. He does this with everyone but most times we are too ignorant, or sensitive to realize it.

The only thing different today than in the antediluvian world where the fallen and hybrids roamed free as gods is that The entities to come won't trade knowledge (magic and science) with us in exchange for parts of our soul - they will try to consume the lot of us.

Considering many Christians don't believe in demons, those verses about fear and hearts failing us for fear seem more to do with the shock professing Christians will have when these entities reveal themselves.



He was blessed that he got to get that perspective, but do you see why every human is responsible for their own spiritual trajectory? This is a big reason why I am antagonistic against canonicity and ecumenism. Let every human develop their relationship uniquely with our Father.




People's "motivation" wont change; it will get worse, and then only look bad to the remnant (everyone else would have been broken to complacency, even love and acceptance of the new BEASTLY paradigm). It has already been prophesied that most everyone will not shift their motivations because they don't even know where to shift them to except what has been prepared for them. The "billions" of Christians will become a remnant - through exposure, fear, circumstance or a combination. You can't fight an enemy you vehemently deny exists. And, even if you think it exists, it is ignorant to vehemently deny how armed your enemy is.

But what about the many correlations between what near death experiencer Howard Storm was shown about life on earth by the year 2185 with so many statements in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel..... and Malachi:

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.

Malachi 4

Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, even statutes and ordinances.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah come.

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

 

[DennisTate]

We are not qualified to interpret old prophecies, so also the new one in the NT. Let us not admire speculation galore!

But maybe it is more simple than we make it......

We don't have to know the specifics on what the Jews want to build or where to build it.....
maybe we just have to believe in and support their right to freedom of religion of Jews.... in their own homeland...... and to understand Ezekiel 40 to Ezekiel 48 a lot better than the most well informed Christian could imagine..... especially concerning the literal fulfillment.

Maybe all we have to do is recognize that G-d is doing some things by other groups of people other than merely us???

 

[DennisTate]

That which has been prophesied will happen in God's own time. We should be prepared for when they happen, but to support the building of the temple seems to be an attempt at forcing God's hand.

I have another discussion going that is directly related to how we should understand our ability to alter how G-d works out world events.

IF.... Elijah had NOT ran away from Queen Jezebel's armies......
could the northern kingdom of Israel have been turned back to G-d......
and could the captivity by the kingdom of Assyria have been delayed.... as the destruction of Nineveh was delayed by their response to the Prophet Jonah?????

Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........

 

[Kaon]

But what about the many correlations between what near death experiencer Howard Storm was shown about life on earth by the year 2185 with so many statements in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel..... and Malachi:

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience


Malachi 4

Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, even statutes and ordinances.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah come.

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

I don't doubt near death experiences at all.

But, keep in mind this Antichrist creature will make the world look like New Eden - through LOANED abilities and wonders. It will be so convincing that believers will have to shake their heads to realize what it is.

If this world goes on for another 170 years, the degeneracy will only increase. A world without technology sounds like the real redeemer, or the false one that mimics the prophecies.

Which would make me think that by 2185, Antichrist will be on the scene, or it truly will be the Redeemer come back. The Baphomet/piper/Pan love children also, and if there was no 1500 mi by 1500 mi golden transparent city that was seen (or masses of people walking to it), then I am leaning toward something "other".

Near death experiences are real, but sometimes they are astral deceptions.

 

[miknik5]

Scripture does not indicate building of another temple

Scripture surely does indicate the building of another temple

Paul does in thesselonians
Jesus does in Matthew
Daniel does in Daniel

 

[miknik5]

More speculations!

Just as you have speculated in your remark that there is no scripture indicating the building of another temple?

 

[miknik5]

More speculations!

I’m sorry but I would prefer to listen to the Word than the speculations of a person who just claims by his own words that there is no temple and no rapture

 

[miknik5]

I never said Satan, I said principalities.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.




And yes, some of us will be cast into prison most likely to be tortured. I figure this pertains to 2 types of people here. The weak believer who Satan thinks he can cause them to deny God, and the strongest believers because they keep everyone aware of the WORD, they keep recruiting the lost, they allow God to manifest by getting themselves out of the way for the Glory of God, they are what I like to call a "LIVE WIRE." And these people I believe are captured simply to be tortured until they either die or Christ returns...

Jesus said Satan.
I said Satan
And I was referring to His warning to the churches in revelation.

Please google “Satan will cast some of you in prison”

Thanks


(I only read the first line of your post when I responded here

I’ll read the remainder and post in a separate post if I need)

 

[miknik5]

Daniel prophecy is about second temple that was rebuilt. Nothing about a third themple.

Did Paul speak led by Christ’s Spirit?
Has Jerusalem been rebuilt through a covenant with a “man of exploits” yet?