Should Christians oppose patriotism?

[Kenny'sID]

I don't want to argue with you Kenny, but his post specifically excluded the point you thought necessary to add.

What are you doing? It appears you absolutely do want to argue and nothing more to it...if you don't, then don't.

I'm still not seeing the big deal..report my post, and if you can get it pulled, good for you, otherwise....let it go. I'm just not concerned about your dislike of what I had to say there.

 

[Anguspure]

Russian novelist Leo Tolstoy once said, “Patriotism in its simplest, clearest and most indubitable signification is nothing else but a means of obtaining for the rulers their ambitions and covetous desires, and for the ruled the abdication of human dignity, reason, conscience, and a slavish enthrallment to those in power.” His quote is a bit grim and cynical, but he makes an important point.

Patriotism is nothing short of government worship. Arguably, patriotic feelings are a form of idolatry which replaces God with a nation. If someone recites the Pledge of Allegiance or otherwise expresses devotion to a flag, country, or national emblem, he is committing idolatry, something which the Bible forbids in Leviticus 26:1: “Do not make idols or set up an image or sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.”

We Christians should be worshipping God, not a flag or nation. For this reason, do you think Christians should be opposed to patriotism? If you think patriotism is harmless, explain why it doesn't constitute idolatry.

I am a patriot of the Kingdom of Christ Jesus and I am happy to give Him His glory and if He requires it lay down my dignity, my reason and my conscience for his sake. I would be His servant and I am enthralled by Him.

Patriotism in His Name is anything but grim and cynical.

But yes patritotism to any other person is death. Very grim.

 

[Anguspure]

Paul still showed a healthy degree of pride in being a Roman citizen even after his conversion.

I'm not sure that using the legalities to leverage the opposition constitutes a heatlhy degree. Respect where respect is due and all that, but our Kingdom is not of this world.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Some would say the willingness to fight for the country we live in is patriotism, so if there were no patriots, then what? I think the OP may be a little shortsighted.

Regardless of where "our Kingdom is", we are here now. The Bible says God hates cowards, and though I'm not certain what all that covers, it is possible that one who will not fight for their country could very well be considered a coward.

 

[HeatRamosHidden]

Now I had to say no. But if Patriotism becomes so strong that it's an idol, then it's like any other idol and you have to get rid of it.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, but if you really want to serve God, God has to be the best for you, not America. America is not the best. God is.

America is the best country IMHO, but it's just as much right for you to say England, Mexico, India or Japan is the best, because it's yours.

 

[JoeP222w]

Patriotism is nothing short of government worship.

I don't think this is an absolute truth, since we can not know the hearts of men.

However, the Christian is not a citizen of any man-made nation. The Christian is a citizen of the kingdom of God and owes his or her loyalty to the Sovereign Creator God whom has adopted them by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. The Christian is merely a sojourner here on this planet until God calls them home or the Savior Jesus Christ returns, so the Christian needs to be in the role of Ambassador to this world for the time that they are here.

As a person who was born in the US, the US grants certain rights according to the Constitution, but the government of the USA never overrides the authority and sovereignty of God. A Christian in the USA should never go around "demanding" their rights, because the Christian surrendered any claims to "rights" when then repented of their sins and trusted in Jesus Christ. But that also does not mean that the Christian cannot partake of those "rights" granted by the Constitution, but simply not going about "demanding" them.

 

[HeatRamosHidden]

I don't think this is an absolute truth, since we can not know the hearts of men.

However, the Christian is not a citizen of any man-made nation. The Christian is a citizen of the kingdom of God and owes his or her loyalty to the Sovereign Creator God whom has adopted them by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. The Christian is merely a sojourner here on this planet until God calls them home or the Savior Jesus Christ returns, so the Christian needs to be in the role of Ambassador to this world for the time that they are here.

As a person who was born in the US, the US grants certain rights according to the Constitution, but the government of the USA never overrides the authority and sovereignty of God. A Christian in the USA should never go around "demanding" their rights, because the Christian surrendered any claims to "rights" when then repented of their sins and trusted in Jesus Christ. But that also does not mean that the Christian cannot partake of those "rights" granted by the Constitution, but simply not going about "demanding" them.

Well Joe I like your post but I don't agree. We need to protect ourselves with a peaceful power that America allows or we will be doing ourselves and thus the entire Church a disservice.

 

[JoeP222w]

We need to protect ourselves with a peaceful power that America allows or we will be doing ourselves and thus the entire Church a disservice.

Not sure I understand. Could you explain what you mean by "peaceful power that America allows"?

God is the one who protects and preserves the Christian, not any man-made nation.

 

[Albion]

What are you doing? It appears you absolutely do want to argue and nothing more to it...if you don't, then don't.

I'm still not seeing the big deal.

Then you have answered your own question. I've been trying to explain the point that you're struggling with. That's part of what we do here--exchange ideas. There is no hostility in that. However, I will give up the attempt now that I know you dont care.

 

[Albion]

I'm not sure that using the legalities to leverage the opposition constitutes a heatlhy degree. Respect where respect is due and all that, but our Kingdom is not of this world.

I can see that you're resistant to the point, but being a Roman citizen was highly prized and seen by citizens as really special. Paul quite obviously continued to feel that way even after his conversion, and historians point that out as well.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi I agree that greed and corruption are a huge problem and many can turn a blind eye to things done when the flag is waved and some patriotic reason is hashed up to justify some unjust government expense or even military action. However the nation state and national values stand in the way of the formation of a one world government which is key to end time Bible prophecy. In the late 1700's a man named ADam Weishaupt drafted 7 objectives for the bringing together a one world government.
In 1773, Dr. Adam Weishaupt started an audacious plan, one that had such size and scope, that is bordered on the impossible. However, pawns of Satan’s knows no limit to their personal ambitions. As the founder of the Order of the Illuminati, as founded on May 1, 1776, Adam Weishaupt had written out a 7-part plan that he felt sure would create a New World Order. That 7-part plan, goes as follows:

1. Abolition of all Order Governments
2. Abolition of Private Property
3. Abolition of Inheritance
4. Abolition of Patriotism
5. Abolition of the Family
6. Abolition of Religion
7. Creation of a New World Order

These objectives were followed by a 25 point plan to implement them.

Rothschild’s 25 Point Plan For World Domination – Nationalist Truth / New World Order Satanic Truth: Videos

in the early 1950's a book called the naked communist listed 45 more objectives to turn America into a socialist country.

THE 45 COMMUNIST GOALS AS READ INTO THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, 1963 - Watchwoman on the Wall

As we have gone on in history the strength and independence of the United States has been a key factor in forming the next superpower which many traitors have joined in and have established the UN as the structure for global government of the future. This will be the seat of authority the Antichrist will gain control over the world and the destruction of the US as a sovereign super power is part of the agenda. We see EU having merged into one super state and the threat from Brextit was based on nationalism. So patriotism is in a way standing in the way of the formation of a one world government. The day the dollar dies will destroy the value of fiat currencies and bring all wealth down across the board. When this collapse occurs the pain and suffering will be global and like nothing that has ever occurred. People will demand world government at that point.

 

[HeatRamosHidden]

Not sure I understand. Could you explain what you mean by "peaceful power that America allows"?

God is the one who protects and preserves the Christian, not any man-made nation.

We have rights. We should defend our rights. Even as children of God, it's our duty to be the best kind of a person that we can be. Be that American or be it German, South African, Spanish, Russian, etcetera. The peaceful power that our Constitution allows is exactly what the Bible allows, discussion, and maybe legal action. That's perfect.

 

[Halbhh]

Patriotism is indeed often idolatry, but...

But the cure for idol worship really is to seek and find God
(which very often will have little connection or help from the typical experience of growing up attending a church).

If we "oppose" patriotism in any argumentative way, we could make people get defensive. It can possibly become a mere battle. A mere human battle. Worst case is you just lock horns with someone. No aid in that.

Instead, the ultimate, or key thing, to finally end idol worship is to seek and find God.

So, the most essential aid is to realize God is wonderful and real.

Fortunately, there is a fair amount of that kind of aid around, such as in good songs, and testimonies.

Only after a person truly realizes God is real, and America is not our Savior, only then is it possible to stop worshipping America.

America is simply a moderately good nation with some nice qualities, and we can pray for it, and be grateful for it, but try to avoid worshipping various such as America, the flag, "freedom", the military, ships, fighter jets, assault rifles, songs, clothing, cars, etc.

 

[friend of]

Not if opposing patriotism means placating anti-christian governments and cultures

 

[Halbhh]

Not if opposing patriotism means placating anti-christian governments and cultures

The World itself -- all worldliness, all kinds, a-z, all: nation, wealth, ethnic prejudices, you name it, all -- is tending to be "anti-Christian", really.

That won't change. Not until He comes again. Then it will change.

We are fortunate for now to have many believers here, in spite of this.

If you want America to do well, have a continued safe life, for now, try to encourage people to find God.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Then you have answered your own question. I've been trying to explain the point that you're struggling with. That's part of what we do here--exchange ideas. There is no hostility in that. However, I will give up the attempt now that I know you dont care.

To be clear and for the sake of education, you were badgering me. And your accusation of me struggling with anything, is more of that. I have no problem with anything I've said here.

You may have the last word if you like, now that you know why I don't care and that I saw your post as picky, and chances are good..incorrect.

 

[Albion]

To be clear and for the sake of education, you were badgering me. .

Uh, no. I wasn't. But if you think that was the case, I apologize.

 

[disciple1]

Russian novelist Leo Tolstoy once said, “Patriotism in its simplest, clearest and most indubitable signification is nothing else but a means of obtaining for the rulers their ambitions and covetous desires, and for the ruled the abdication of human dignity, reason, conscience, and a slavish enthrallment to those in power.” His quote is a bit grim and cynical, but he makes an important point.

Patriotism is nothing short of government worship. Arguably, patriotic feelings are a form of idolatry which replaces God with a nation. If someone recites the Pledge of Allegiance or otherwise expresses devotion to a flag, country, or national emblem, he is committing idolatry, something which the Bible forbids in Leviticus 26:1: “Do not make idols or set up an image or sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.”

We Christians should be worshipping God, not a flag or nation. For this reason, do you think Christians should be opposed to patriotism? If you think patriotism is harmless, explain why it doesn't constitute idolatry.

2 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 4
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

For this reason, do you think Christians should be opposed to patriotism?

At one point they were going to make Jesus king by force, but he didn't want that, so why should we fight for anyone in power.

 

[compassion 4 humanity]

Some would say the willingness to fight for the country we live in is patriotism, so if there were no patriots, then what? I think the OP may be a little shortsighted.

Regardless of where "our Kingdom is", we are here now. The Bible says God hates cowards, and though I'm not certain what all that covers, it is possible that one who will not fight for their country could very well be considered a coward.

The Soviet regime was extremely unpopular when Stalin was in power, and it's hard to believe that anyone would be patriots for a brutal authoritarian nation, but millions of Russians still fought in WWII despite the lack of patriotism at the time. I think you're a little short-sighted because you apparently haven't heard of conscription. Basically, it's where the government forces their citizens to fight in a war, whether they like it or not.

 

[faroukfarouk]

The Soviet regime was extremely unpopular when Stalin was in power, and it's hard to believe that anyone would be patriots for a brutal authoritarian nation, but millions of Russians still fought in WWII despite the lack of patriotism at the time. I think you're a little short-sighted because you apparently haven't heard of conscription. Basically, it's where the government forces their citizens to fight in a war, whether they like it or not.

You make a significant point about conscription /draft, yes.

Stalin did to some extent use the imagery of the Orthodox church in WW2 to rally Russians to a patriotic war against the invading Nazi German forces.