Should a Christian Date A Non-Christian?

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Xalith

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I disagree. You can date just to get to know someone w/o the intention of marriage. You can also date as a social mechanism so that you're not lonely w/o the intention of marriage. Granted, there's the risk of falling in love and wanting to get married, but that doesn't have to be the intention at the outset.

Dating usually implies a "above-platonic" relationship. If you were platonic with the person, then you wouldn't be "dating", but rather hanging out like friends do. A pair of friends can hang out, and not be "dating". Dating implies romance, or at least it should. I will admit I haven't been keeping up with all of today's by-words and slang, but I remember when I was entering adulthood, "dating" was that thing you did when you intended to marry someone, but you wanted to actually try being together for an extended period of time first, to make sure it would work out. Kinda like a pre-engagement type thing.

Now, with all of the fornication that's rampant in today's society, I wouldn't be surprised if dating, groping, kissing, etc were treated like yesterday's handshake and hopping in bed with someone was just something that somebody does when there's enough lust between a pair.
 
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The Cadet

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How many marriages today end up in divorce, because they got together because of lust, rather than a holy loving connection to one another?

While I agree with many of your other points (and said so near the start of the thread ;) ), I have to wonder - would you date someone you don't experience lust for? Someone you have no physical attraction for? From my experience, most relationships start because one party thinks about the other, "Gotta get me some o' that!" Obviously, if that's all that's there, there won't be much to the relationship, but usually lust comes first, then love follows.

After a few meetings you must decide whether to marry or to cut each other loose and go your separate ways.

A few meetings are enough to know that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone? This is terrible advice.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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People may feel that dating is not biblical, but its impossible to find anyone that doesn't date, in order to lead to engagement, marriage...etc. When homeschooled I was taught about courting. But only like 5 families did it, and those families already had their kids "hooked" with each other so for me I had no one to court.
 
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Dave-W

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Not if they're being taught to think critically about what they're being taught.
AHA. "being taught to think critically." That means it is a doctrine (teaching). That means that you can be indoctrinated with critical thinking as much as anything else.

"Critical thinking" can be a serious impediment to faith.
 
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Chris B

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AHA. "being taught to think critically." That means it is a doctrine (teaching).
But not a dogmatic one since it opens itself to examination.
I have no trouble with doctrine. But doctrine that holds itself above questioning, examination and critique is something else.
Think about what used to be doctrine in medicine, for example.

"Critical thinking" can be a serious impediment to faith.

And an exceedingly good thing too!
If can't quite work out why, you may need a refresher on critical (=analytical, not "negative") thinking.
I'll be interested to see if you can see what you appear to have missed.
 
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The Cadet

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AHA. "being taught to think critically." That means it is a doctrine (teaching). That means that you can be indoctrinated with critical thinking as much as anything else.

"Critical thinking" can be a serious impediment to faith.
...Please stop for a moment and think about what you're saying. You seem to be saying that logic and reason are an impediment to belief. How does that reflect on your faith? What does that say about the beliefs you hold?
 
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Dave-W

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...Please stop for a moment and think about what you're saying. You seem to be saying that logic and reason are an impediment to belief. How does that reflect on your faith? What does that say about the beliefs you hold?
First off - the "logic and reason" used in the writings of the bible are VERY DIFFERENT than the Aristotelian model of deduction and induction we are accustomed to in the west. That logic is sometimes called Hebraic Block logic or Adductive logic. (do a google search on those terms)

That style of logic is NEVER abstract, (rather, it is relational) and rarely is what we would call circular (rather than linear). It can hold 2 things as being equally and simultaneously true that in western logic are contradictory and mutually exclusive.

So yes - western logic IS a hindrance to true biblical faith. To the western logic mind, this verse in Hebrews makes no sense:

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

Faith comes by hearing the voice of God. (Rom 3) And that voice often runs counter to logic and sense. But it is true and always will be.
 
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Dave-W

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And an exceedingly good thing too!
Not really. Faith REQUIRES one to hear God's voice and receive it as truth, which is a very SUBJECTIVE experience. Critical thinking downplays subjectivity.
 
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Cearbhall

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and you can do missionary dating, as in convince them to convert while dating.
Noooooo don't do that. I have no problem with interfaith relationships, but what you're describing is a fake romantic relationship.
 
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Dave-W

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Cearbhall

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EXCELLENT POST, especially what I bolded. You should listen to what a prospective nonChristian date or mate would really think and feel, if not right away, then definitely after the pink glow wears off.
And I have to second that sentiment. If I found out that one of the conditions of the relationship progressing was my conversion, I would be mad. What a waste of my time.

If you want to try to convert me, do it openly, and as my platonic friend. I'll decide whether or not I want the friendship to continue.
 
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The Cadet

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First off - the "logic and reason" used in the writings of the bible are VERY DIFFERENT than the Aristotelian model of deduction and induction we are accustomed to in the west. That logic is sometimes called Hebraic Block logic or Adductive logic. (do a google search on those terms)

That style of logic is NEVER abstract, (rather, it is relational) and rarely is what we would call circular (rather than linear). It can hold 2 things as being equally and simultaneously true that in western logic are contradictory and mutually exclusive.

So yes - western logic IS a hindrance to true biblical faith. To the western logic mind, this verse in Hebrews makes no sense:

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

Faith comes by hearing the voice of God. (Rom 3) And that voice often runs counter to logic and sense. But it is true and always will be.
Yeah, I really don't know what you expect me to say. Aristotelian deduction and induction are used as the standard model of logic because, surprise surprise, they work. They describe reality in an accurate and useful way, and can be used to investigate claims and determine whether or not they work. Regardless of what you believe or why, logic (I refuse to qualify that statement, because anything outside that framework should have a different term and should not be called "logic") will always be of great benefit to you.

Meanwhile, your so-called "Adductive logic" is not a system of logic at all. Given what DaveW (not sure if this is you or not) wrote on another forum, I don't think it would be uncharitable to describe it as straight-up doublethink:

Consideration of certain forms of block logic may give one the impression that divine sovereignty and human responsibility were incompatible. The Hebrews, however, sense no violation of their freedom as they accomplish God's purposes. The back and forth between human freedom and divine sovereignty is a function of block logic and the Hebrew mindset. What this boils down to is that Paul presents us with a paradox in Romans 9, one which he, as a Hebrew, saw no need to explain. "..[T]he Hebrew mind could handle this dynamic tension of the language of paradox" and saw no need to unravel it as we do."
I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. The problem with a paradox is that it introduces something that must simultaneously be true and not true, and therefore it violates the law of non-contradiction. The point where you can accept something as both true and not true is the point where you throw literally all ability to understand any part of reality out the window.

At best, one could claim that Adductive Logic is different and inferior to traditional logic.

Or maybe I just found a bogus source. Maybe you can make a thread about it and explain it more in-depth? Because none of the sources I found explained it in any way that made any sense.
 
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Dave-W

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The reason it does not make sense is that for xx years your mind has been trained to only operate in Aristotelian (pagan greek) logic and NOT the logic of the bible. It can be a difficult mental transition to be able to start understanding Hebraic logic, and without it one is lost in trying to understand the bible.

No - your source is not bogus. Your quote sums it up briefly but well enough.


Yes that is me on the GraceCentered forum. I tried to get the exact same handle here but apparently DaveW was already taken.

I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. The problem with a paradox is that it introduces something that must simultaneously be true and not true, and therefore it violates the law of non-contradiction. The point where you can accept something as both true and not true is the point where you throw literally all ability to understand any part of reality out the window.
Hence the term "block logic." What is true in one block may or may not be true in another block. If you are familiar with Relativity, think of it kind of like a "frame of reference." It is possible that Einstein came up with his frames of reference from understanding block logic. (he was Jewish)

Going the other way (starting with the frame of reference concept) helped me to start to understand block logic.
 
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Cearbhall

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Sounds like indoctrination.
That's what you call "to think critically and understand science?"

Just when I think I've read it all on here...
I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. The problem with a paradox is that it introduces something that must simultaneously be true and not true, and therefore it violates the law of non-contradiction. The point where you can accept something as both true and not true is the point where you throw literally all ability to understand any part of reality out the window.
I agree. It sounds like someone went to a lot of trouble to reach a predetermined conclusion. It's a case of this mindset: "The Bible is true, so let's try to understand it."
 
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Xalith

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While I agree with many of your other points (and said so near the start of the thread ;) ), I have to wonder - would you date someone you don't experience lust for? Someone you have no physical attraction for? From my experience, most relationships start because one party thinks about the other, "Gotta get me some o' that!" Obviously, if that's all that's there, there won't be much to the relationship, but usually lust comes first, then love follows.

My idea of marriage:

A man and a woman meet naturally, get to know each other, and are friends for a time. Over time, this friendship starts to blossom towards a higher love, and they start thinking that they might be made for each other, and so they decide to start getting closer to each other ("dating" or "courting") without having sex, but yet spending lots of time with each other, they start to talk about life goals, etc and if they are compatible, they get engaged, and then eventually marry.

The problem with "dating" in today's societies, is that people go out LOOKING for a spouse, instead of just naturally meeting one. That's why most marriages are founded on lust.

A few meetings are enough to know that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone? This is terrible advice.

I agree, you need to spend at least a year or two being closely together (but not in bed!), talking about the serious subjects like life goals, children, etc to make sure you two are on the same page. Trust needs to be built, intimate knowledge needs to be shared, etc, before they jump into a marriage.
 
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Dave-W

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The problem with "dating" in today's societies, is that people go out LOOKING for a spouse, instead of just naturally meeting one. That's why most marriages are founded on lust.
True. I would also add that today, there is a cultural expectation that we should not have to do the hard work of making a relationship work. We should just get together with our "soul mate" and we "live happily ever after." NOT SO. Every relationship will take work and if you do not put in the work, the relationship will fail.
I agree, you need to spend at least a year or two being closely together (but not in bed!), talking about the serious subjects like life goals, children, etc to make sure you two are on the same page. Trust needs to be built, intimate knowledge needs to be shared, etc, before they jump into a marriage.
I don't know if it would take a year, but certainly several months. If you think you are compatible and want to wed, BE SURE to go thru a round of pre-marital counseling that is invasive. That digs into family relationships, financial dealings, educational goals, and a thorough discussion of each of your sexual histories. The 3 biggest sources of failed marriages are (in no order) difficulty in relating/communicating to others, differing methods of handling finances and sexual problems.
 
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davedajobauk

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How many marriages today are unhappy, because the man and woman can't agree on anything?

Do we really need yet more marriages being founded on shaky ground to begin with? Tying the knot between a believer and unbeliever is only asking for trouble. Now, if a couple were already married, and one turns to Christ, they should in no wise divorce unless they simply cannot live together anymore without arguing and fighting.

But nowhere in the Bible does it say that believers should be seeking to marry unbelievers. Yes, we are told to love everybody as ourselves, but I can tell you that Christ did not mean that we should want to marry everybody, lol. There's the kind of love that produces marriage, and then there's brotherly love, the kind we should have for any other human being. Two entirely different kinds of love.

In fact, if you truly have brotherly love towards a woman, you won't want to try to use marriage to force her to change her belief system, nor would you want to marry her out of lust. That's a rather selfish way to go about it, to be honest.

A Christian should marry when they (both of them!) feel that it is God's will that the two marry, that God ordained for it to be. How can you have this, when the one person doesn't even believe in God?


Likewise; nowhere in the bible does it forbid (advise against it)
Not all 'unbelievers' will be wilful sinners
We are simply told NOT TO walk in the paths of sinners (?)


What you have is a lesson, where, the believer will set good example for the unbeliever
When the unbeliever LOVES the believer (for who he/she 'is') then you may believe
that 'some of his / her ways, will, rub off on the other' (no pun intended)
ie: she'll have respect for him and him for her

We are ALL "sinners" for who can claim they are not ?
 
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