Should a Christian Date A Non-Christian?

[Black Dog]

Actually, IF an omnipotent, omniscient God exists, THEN there are no random events. As Einstein is reputed to have said: "God does not throw dice."

Which nicely negates the effect of the rest of your post.

From your perspective, all events are random.

Um, Einstein was an atheist, although he didn't like that label (understandable), and wasn't referring to a personal "God". You can find more here, and if you use the references in the article, can find the same information in many sources.

Einstein was commenting on Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Without that, without some degree of randomness, there is no Free Will, because everything is predetermined (Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% sure on this. Please include link if correcting. Thanks). Since you don't seem to believe there is randomness in the Universe, do you not believe in free will either?

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Um, Einstein was an atheist, although he didn't like that label (understandable), and wasn't referring to a personal "God". You can find more here, and if you use the references in the article, can find the same information in many sources.

Thanks for the info. i already knew that, but thanks anyway.

Of course it has absolutely nothing to do with the post which stated that IF an omnipotent, omniscient God exists, THEN there are no random events.

Einstein was reputed to have said just what was cited. Whatever his views on God, he did not accept 'random'.

 

[Black Dog]

I would raise children to decide for themselves what should be privileged and what is useful.

Sounds like you want your children to grow up to be critical thinkers and skeptics. Very good, and I hope you are applying the same logic to religion.

My experience has been that intuition is almost always right.

Oh, terrible terrible idea. Our intuition evolved to help use survive as hunter/gathers, and is often wrong. For instance, intuitively mankind believed we lived on a flat earth. Intuitively mankind believed we were unmoving, and it was the sun that rose and fell. Intuitively mankind believed that stars are little specks of light that can fall to the earth.

I wish that somebody had at an earlier age made me conscious of intuition and encouraged me to trust it.

Be glad no one did you that disservice. As I just showed, intuition often fails us.

I doubt that many people who have made deep inquiries into the nature of intuition would define it as "going by your gut".

It doesn't really matter how anyone describes it, our intuition demonstrably fails sometimes.

Or people could learn to use tuition effectively and have another powerful tool in their toolbox in addition to formal reason.

No, as I just demonstrated, intuition fails and provides false results, so it cannot be used to formally reason, nor can it be considered "another powerful tool".

And future generations may suffer greatly because of that, speaking of children.

A lot of humans and non-human animals have already suffered greatly because of the work of science.

And a lot of humans have already suffered greatly because of food. They eat it after it goes bad, or they eat something that is poisonous. Are you seriously suggesting we should stop eating? And while we're at it, we better take a long look at breathing too, a lot of humans have suffered from breathing in airborne diseases.

 

[Black Dog]

Thanks for the info. i already knew that, but thanks anyway.

Of course it has absolutely nothing to do with the post which stated that IF an omnipotent, omniscient God exists, THEN there are no random events.

Einstein was reputed to have said just what was cited. Whatever his views on God, he did not accept 'random'.

I agree with your interpretation of what Einsten said. But without random, isn't everything predetermined, and so no Free Will. Is this your belief?

 

[The Cadet]

I think you're correct. And I know she laughs at those Christians.

FWIW, and because I just realized what I said could easily be misconstrued: your wife sounds like my favorite kind of Christian.

 

[Xalith]

Actually, IF an omnipotent, omniscient God exists, THEN there are no random events. As Einstein is reputed to have said: "God does not throw dice."

Which nicely negates the effect of the rest of your post.

From your perspective, all events are random.

It's more like... God knows the outcome of everything He allows, or doesn't allow, or does or doesn't do before it even happens. I think when a lot of people say "omnipotent", "omnivoyent" and "omniscient", I think some people can't really grasp what that really means.

He doesn't cause evil, though sometimes He will allow evil to take place when He can turn it around for good purposes. Nothing is random in God's kingdom, but yet He doesn't directly cause everything to happen, either. He winds up the springs and then lets it tick, every cog and gear turning as He knew it would when He wound it up in the first place. Sometimes He reaches His fingers in to budge something to make it turn out a certain way, other times He just sits back and watches.

Either way, He already knows how everything is going to play out, He knew all of this before He even made the Earth.

 

[Xalith]

I agree with your interpretation of what Einsten said. But without random, isn't everything predetermined, and so no Free Will. Is this your belief?

Your question falls in line with what I just posted so I'll use it to reply to you too: We have Free Will, but God knows beforehand what we will choose to do.

 

[Black Dog]

FWIW, and because I just realized what I said could easily be misconstrued: your wife sounds like my favorite kind of Christian.

LOL, no worries, it never crossed my mind that you were saying anything negative.

 

[Black Dog]

Your question falls in line with what I just posted so I'll use it to reply to you too: We have Free Will, but God knows beforehand what we will choose to do.

Thanks for the reply Xalith. The subject is way off topic, so I'm going to let you have the last word ^^^^^.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

I agree with your interpretation of what Einsten said. But without random, isn't everything predetermined, and so no Free Will. Is this your belief?

That depends on how you define the term 'free will'. If i deny 'free will' i would not be the only Christian who has done so. You may wish to consult Luther's The Bondage of the Will, which was written as a rebuttal to Erasmus' The Freedom of the Will.

However, If random events exist, an omnipotent, omniscient God cannot exist.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

It's more like... God knows the outcome of everything He allows, or doesn't allow, or does or doesn't do before it even happens. I think when a lot of people say "omnipotent", "omnivoyent" and "omniscient", I think some people can't really grasp what that really means.

He doesn't cause evil, though sometimes He will allow evil to take place when He can turn it around for good purposes. Nothing is random in God's kingdom, but yet He doesn't directly cause everything to happen, either. He winds up the springs and then lets it tick, every cog and gear turning as He knew it would when He wound it up in the first place. Sometimes He reaches His fingers in to budge something to make it turn out a certain way, other times He just sits back and watches.

Either way, He already knows how everything is going to play out, He knew all of this before He even made the Earth.

You're arguing the issue of what the Westminster Confession calls "Primary and Secondary causes". This is indeed a separate argument.

The argument presented here is simply this: IF an omnipotent, omniscient God exists, THEN there are no random events. It does not speak of will, indeed, where there is no mind --cosmic events, movement of sub-atomic particles, etc-- will is not involved.

 

[Lulav]

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