Sheol: is it a place or a state of being?

[YahuahSaves]

That's why I don't bother with the newer translations because they are suited for the "times"
We're in the LAST days and I think these translations are causing more to fall away then they are saving
"hades" wasn't hell, Hades was a false 'god" or a fallen angel depending on how you look at it

Yes, lots of deception from within the church I'm finding out.

 

[Lost Witness]

I'll take that as, 'I don't have a single one, now that you mention it?

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”

 

[Lost Witness]

Post #50 has KJV and the more literal translation from the original Hebrew and Greek Young's. If you truly believe God makes human souls (who are supposedly not inherently immortal) literally suffer for eternity, that's up to you. I prefer to not see God as that cruel.

I'm going to pray for you

 

[Wayne Gabler]

I'm an expert on the 1611KJV, if it was promoted, I would know which verse to post. I don't have any as it is not promoted. The ones sent to hell serve their punishment and them fulfill the new earth verse in Isa:65. Their punishment begins with the verse that says Jesus kills them with His sword. It also goes onto say the past is forgotten and never brought up again, for all eternity.

Re:19:21:
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse,
which sword proceeded out of his mouth:
and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Isa:65:12:
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

 

[YahuahSaves]

I'm going to pray for you

Don't be condescending.

Believe what you want to believe, you already do.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”

That is talking about any time that false Christians exist. Basically from about 100AD to the day Jesus resurrects the two witnesses. Today would be in that 'era'.

 

[Lost Witness]

Don't be condescending.

Believe what you want to believe, you already do.

Listen, Your own Post proves they still go to hell as quoted below

15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

I know the truth

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Listen, Your own Post proves they still go to hell as quoted below

The fallen angels are the only ones sent to the fiery lake. All of Adam and Eve's are found in Re:20:4-5. Non eof them end up in the lake as you have to be an immortal first. The 1,000 year group are immortals at the end of the 1,000 years, so it is either people from the 12 tribes or Gentile church that are sent there.
None are, as it would mean Jesus is not a perfect Shepherd.

 

[Lost Witness]

The fallen angels are the only ones sent to the fiery lake. All of Adam and Eve's are found in Re:20:4-5. Non eof them end up in the lake as you have to be an immortal first. The 1,000 year group are immortals at the end of the 1,000 years, so it is either people from the 12 tribes or Gentile church that are sent there.
None are, as it would mean Jesus is not a perfect Shepherd.

Wake up, before it's too late.
Jesus was/is a prefect Shepherd, He was/is GOD in the FLESH,
he made no Mistakes.
You are In Error, Wake Up.

 

[Lost Witness]

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Wake up, before it's too late.
Jesus was/is a prefect Shepherd, He was/is GOD in the FLESH,
he made no Mistakes.
You are In Error, Wake Up.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said nobody would fall into sin.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Listen, Your own Post proves they still go to hell as quoted below

I know the truth

Quote the whole thing. The lake of fire IS the second death. there's a lot of Greek mythology mixed in with the NT. A large majority of it is symbolic. especially what Jesus said.

If you knew the truth, you wouldn't assume God behaves like Ha-satan.

14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this [is] the second death;

15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire

 

[Lost Witness]

Quote the whole thing. The lake of fire IS the second death. there's a lot of Greek mythology mixed in with the NT. A large majority of it is symbolic. especially what Jesus said.

If you knew the truth, you wouldn't assume God behaves like Ha-satan.

Second death because you will not exist outside of the Lake of Fire,
what and who you are is gone,
nobody will know who or what you were,
you won't be a memory at all
That's why it's called the Second Death because you cease to be outside of it
inside of it will be Weeping and gnashing of teeth... don't forget the worms

 

[YahuahSaves]

Second death because you will not exist outside of the Lake of Fire,
what and who you are is gone,
nobody will know who or what you were,
you won't be a memory at all
That's why it's called the Second Death because you cease to be outside of it
inside of it will be Weeping and gnashing of teeth... don't forget the worms

You need to research the analogy Jesus was using when he spoke of the worms and the events to come after his death and resurrection. Not much in the bible is literal you know.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

You need to research the analogy Jesus was using when he spoke of the worms and the events to come after his death and resurrection. Not much in the bible is literal you know.

Da:7 and Re:17 have a vision and an explanation. The visions are in mythical language and the explanation are in literal terms. These two examples have a bonus, the 10 men mentioned are the same 10 men.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Da:7 and Re:17 have a vision and an explanation. The visions are in mythical language and the explanation are in literal terms. These two examples have a bonus, the 10 men mentioned are the same 10 men.

They aren't men.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

They aren't men.

Re:17:12:
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings,
which have received no kingdom as yet;
but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Re:18:8:
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day,
death,
and mourning,
and famine;
and she shall be utterly burned with fire:
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Re:16:1-2:
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels,
Go your ways,
and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
And the first went,
and poured out his vial upon the earth;
and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast,
and upon them which worshipped his image.

Da:7:8:
I considered the horns,
and,
behold,
there came up among them another little horn,
before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots:
and,
behold,
in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man,
and a mouth speaking great things.

Da:7:19-20:
Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast,
which was diverse from all the others,
exceeding dreadful,
whose teeth were of iron,
and his nails of brass;
which devoured,
brake in pieces,
and stamped the residue with his feet;
And of the ten horns that were in his head,
and of the other which came up,
and before whom three fell;
even of that horn that had eyes,
and a mouth that spake very great things,
whose look was more stout than his fellows.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Sometimes something from the Bible is more useful:
Isa:28:9-10:
Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk,
and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept,
precept upon precept;
line upon line,
line upon line;
here a little,
and there a little:

 

[Der Alte]

Yes I'm well aware of your assumptions of modern Jewish sources being trustworthy. 100 years old is a but a drop in the ocean mate.

Yes, I think that the Jewish Encyclopedia is a reliable record of their ancient beliefs and practices. Still waiting for you to show me something more credible. Think you can do that any time soon?

 

[parousia70]

Are you sure there's eternal suffering for human souls? Here is the KJV and YLT versions (they are the closest English translation of the original languages.) How can Hades (Greek for Hell) be cast into Hell? It says the eternal fire is the second death. the second death is final, no coming back to consciousness (resurrection).

Revelation 20:10-15
King James Version
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:10-15
Young's Literal Translation
10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;

12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works;

13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;

14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this [is] the second death;

15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

Yep. The annihilation vs. eternal conscious punishment debate is a fascinating one that I’ve studied for many years, with well meaning and honest Christians on both sides.

I definitely come down on the ECP side.