Sheol: is it a place or a state of being?

[Der Alte]

Like you do, quoting a modern Jewish source?

Huh? What's that got to do with this thread or post #30?

The JPS is 100+ years old. If you have a better more credible Jewish source, I'd like to know about it. Or are you just throwing shade? I doubt it very seriously. I have been looking for a few decades and have not found a more reliable source. Certainly not any "translation" by a non-Jew. My bad on the thread I was looking at that thread before this one, forgot I switched.

 

[Der Alte]

Yeah, I don't make the presumption that they are the only 3 that suffer for eternity, but many do.
And as I said it makes no difference if its just those three, or if its ALL the unrepentant. The result is the same:
The Post GWTJ age is an age where Sin and Suffering exist forever.

FYI one of the three, the false prophet, was a person. Just sayin'.

 

[Der Alte]

Lots of Greek mythology got mixed in to the NT. Perhaps start looking outside of the modern Jewish encyclopaedia.

Lots of heterodox religious groups make that accusation, as if they alone can tell the difference. Present company not excepted. Assuming that God would permit His word to be tainted by paganism, so that only a chosen [i.e. self appointed] few can discern the difference. The Jewish Encyclopedia is also 100+ years old. You got a better source? Let me know. All I have seen are various arguments by self-appointed "experts."

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Hell is a locked cage in a place known as 'the Pit'. The Pit is an escape proof prison for immortal beings. The ones Jesus sends there are actually immortal as they are awake in that place for more than 1,000 years.

2Pe:2:17:
These are wells without water,
clouds that are carried with a tempest;
to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
Jude:1:12:
These are spots in your feasts of charity,
when they feast with you,
feeding themselves without fear:
clouds they are without water,
carried about of winds;
trees whose fruit withereth,
without fruit,
twice dead,
plucked up by the roots;

Re:19:21:
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse,
which sword proceeded out of his mouth:
and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Isa:65:12-16:
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
my servants shall eat,
but ye shall be hungry:
behold,
my servants shall drink,
but ye shall be thirsty:
behold,
my servants shall rejoice,
but ye shall be ashamed:
Behold,
my servants shall sing for joy of heart,
but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart,
and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen:
for the Lord GOD shall slay thee,
and call his servants by another name:
That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth;
and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth;
because the former troubles are forgotten,
and because they are hid from mine eyes.

Re:7:9-17:
After this I beheld,
and,
lo,
a great multitude,
which no man could number,
of all nations,
and kindreds,
and people,
and tongues,
stood before the throne,
and before the Lamb,
clothed with white robes,
and palms in their hands;
And cried with a loud voice,
saying,
Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne,
and unto the Lamb.
And all the angels stood round about the throne,
and about the elders and the four beasts,
and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying,
Amen:
Blessing,
and glory,
and wisdom,
and thanksgiving,
and honour,
and power,
and might,
be unto our God for ever and ever.
Amen.
And one of the elders answered,
saying unto me,
What are these which are arrayed in white robes?
and whence came they?
And I said unto him,
Sir,
thou knowest.
And he said to me,
These are they which came out of great tribulation,
and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore are they before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple:
and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
They shall hunger no more,
neither thirst any more;
neither shall the sun light on them,
nor any heat.
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters:
and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

 

[Der Alte]

No, or rather, best not to accept self appointed persons.
Instead, find if possible someone appointed, set apart, by the Creator Himself for His Kingdom.

Please don't quote me out-of-context and reply to only one sentence I posted.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Well, those scriptures have to square with this one:

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Even if we propose these three are the ONLY ones that suffer in the LoF for ever and ever, the result is the same.
An age where Sin and suffering exist forever.

Are you sure there's eternal suffering for human souls? Here is the KJV and YLT versions (they are the closest English translation of the original languages.) How can Hades (Greek for Hell) be cast into Hell? It says the eternal fire is the second death. the second death is final, no coming back to consciousness (resurrection).

Revelation 20:10-15
King James Version
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:10-15
Young's Literal Translation
10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;

12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works;

13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;

14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this [is] the second death;

15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

 

[Lost Witness]

Are you sure there's eternal suffering for human souls?

Yes anything else would be heresy

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Fallen angels names are the only names erased from the book of life by the end of Re:20. Adam and Eve and all their children are gathered in either Re:20:4 or Re:20:5.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Yes anything else would be heresy

Read the scripture. It says second death. Hell cannot be cast into Hell.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Yes anything else would be heresy

You must have lots of verse that show there are people that are not in any part of Re:20:4-5.
Care to post some of them?

 

[Lost Witness]

Read the scripture. It says second death. Hell cannot be cast into Hell.

That's why I don't bother with the newer translations because they are suited for the "times"
We're in the LAST days and I think these translations are causing more to fall away then they are saving
"hades" wasn't hell, Hades was a false 'god" or a fallen angel depending on how you look at it

 

[YahuahSaves]

The never-ending story.
Until it ends.

Do you know the original texts had pieces missing? There was a lot of guessing done when they made the bible compilation.... that's why I prefer to research the original languages as much as possible.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Read the scripture. It says second death. Hell cannot be cast into Hell.

Men are not threatened with a 2nd death until after the new earth era had begun. That is the sinless version of this sinful earth, there is no sin that breaks any of the Re:21 set of Laws, no men ever suffer the 2nd death.
The 'sons of God' in Ge:6 were breaking all those commands, that is why they will be sent to the lake of fire.

 

[Lost Witness]

You must have lots of verse that show there are people that are not in any part of Re:20:4-5.
Care to post some of them?

UR IS false.

 

[Lost Witness]

Men are not threatened with a 2nd death until after the new earth era had begun. That is the sinless version of this sinful earth, there is no sin that breaks any of the Re:21 set of Laws, no men ever suffer the 2nd death.
The 'sons of God' in Ge:6 were breaking all those commands, that is why they will be sent to the lake of fire.

Say that to people that have had NDE and were sent to HELL

 

[Wayne Gabler]

That's why I don't bother with the newer translations because they are suited for the "times"
We're in the LAST days and I think these translations are causing more to fall away then they are saving
"hades" wasn't hell, Hades was a false 'god" or a fallen angel depending on how you look at it

Re:20:14:
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.

Jude:1:5-6:
I will therefore put you in remembrance,
though ye once knew this,
how that the Lord,
having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,
afterward destroyed them that believed not.
And the angels which kept not their first estate,
but left their own habitation,
he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Lots of heterodox religious groups make that accusation, as if they alone can tell the difference. Present company not excepted. Assuming that God would permit His word to be tainted by paganism, so that only a chosen [i.e. self appointed] few can discern the difference. The Jewish Encyclopedia is also 100+ years old. You got a better source? Let me know. All I have seen are various arguments by self-appointed "experts."

Yes I'm well aware of your assumptions of modern Jewish sources being trustworthy. 100 years old is a but a drop in the ocean mate.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Say that to people that have had NDE and were sent to HELL

I'd rather say Jonah and Jesus spent 3 days in hell and then they were taken out of it.
Great tribulation in Re:7 is about the people Jesus sends to hell, they look pretty saved by the last few verses in that passage. The 12 tribes represent the Re:20:4 group, the 2nd group represents the Re:20:5 group.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

UR IS false.

I'll take that as, 'I don't have a single one, now that you mention it.'

 

[YahuahSaves]

That's why I don't bother with the newer translations because they are suited for the "times"
We're in the LAST days and I think these translations are causing more to fall away then they are saving
"hades" wasn't hell, Hades was a false 'god" or a fallen angel depending on how you look at it

Post #50 has KJV and the more literal translation from the original Hebrew and Greek Young's. If you truly believe God makes human souls (who are supposedly not inherently immortal) literally suffer for eternity, that's up to you. I prefer to not see God as that cruel.