Sexual Preference

[SkyWriting]

So because of the degradation of sin upon our genetics causing all sorts of regressive, mutations to our offspring, you say that is the reason to disregard what God explicitly stated. Maybe some are born with developmental anger issues... does God dismiss the prohibition against the 6th commandment?
Seems to me you are saying that God needs to change for our sinful inclinations instead of what the Bible teaches... repenting from sin, turning from sin.

I'm saying we can't make up gender based rules of any kind based on the foundation of scripture.
I don't want others, making up gender rules for me.
I doubt you want me, making up gender based rules for your behavior.
If you do, I'd be happy to ask congress to make up a list for you to follow.


New International Version
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

New Living Translation
"Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.

English Standard Version
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Berean Study Bible
In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

Berean Literal Bible
All things therefore, as many as you might desire that men should do to you, so also you do to them, for this is the law and the prophets.

New American Standard Bible
"In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm saying we can't make up gender based rules of any kind based on the foundation of scripture.
I don't want others, making up gender rules for me.
I doubt you want me, making up gender based rules for your behavior.

God has already set those rules. We either conform to them or be judged by them.

 

[SkyWriting]

Seems to me you are saying that God needs to change for our sinful inclinations instead of what the Bible teaches... repenting from sin, turning from sin.

Holy Scriptures teach that salvation depends on God, not on us.
We live by his grace, not by gender based rules.

 

[SkyWriting]

God has already set those rules. We either conform to them or be judged by them.

We no longer live by the rules of the old testament.
We live by the grace of Jesus.
The letters to the churches were local improvements
which we can improve on further. At that time
women were gossiping in church and instructed
to keep quiet during service. We let women speak
in service now without calling it the sin sending them
to hell for eternity.

 

[SkyWriting]

God has already set those rules. We either conform to them or be judged by them.

Then I'd be happy to ask the government to make up a list of gender based rules for you to follow.
What city and town do you live in? Or perhaps only a neighborhood association is needed to keep you in line.

List of Current Neighborhood Associations:
Barrington Court
Quail Run Condominiums
Barton Estates
Ranch Oaks (formerly The Collections)
Hunter Valley
Revere Place
Beverly Oaks
Irving Arts District
Riverside Village
Broadmoor Hills
Irving Heights
Sherwood Forest
Cardinal Village Irving Hospital District Song
Club Townhomes
Irving Lake Association
(Lake Vilbig Homeowners)
South Austin Heights
Colby Court Lakeside Landing Phase 1
South Delaware Creek
The Collections Lakeside Landing Phase 2 Stonehill

 

[ewq1938]

We no longer live by the rules of the old testament.
We live by the grace of Jesus.

Anti-homosexual verses are in the NT too....God hasn't changed how he feels about it.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[ewq1938]

Then I'd be happy to ask the government to make up a list of gender based rules for you to follow.
What city and town do you live in? Perhaps only a neighborhood association is needed to keep you in line.

As I said, God made the rules not man. Do you reject what God has said?

 

[Armoured]

No, because even if both parties are adults, you still have some very real power dynamics in place, so I doubt the legitimacy of consent.

This is my concern with it.

In the very rare cases where an incestuous relationship forms between people who don't know they're related, and who wish to continue it after finding out they are, with the full and informed consent of both parties, then I'm not opposed to it, from a legal or ethical POV.

 

[Armoured]

I still don't understand what you mean by 'they can't determine the sex of the child'? Usually by their anatomy??

You can google "intersex", if you're interested. I on't know how any links I could post would be received by this forum, so I'll leave it to you.

 

[SkyWriting]

Anti-homosexual verses are in the NT too....God hasn't changed how he feels about it.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

As a person who once believed like you do, I'll be happy to show that each one of those
are not a condemnation of gender preferences. But I'll take the most direct one first.

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

This refers to sexually open, active, pubic, bi-sexuals, who leave one partner
for another and do so based on lust and desires.

Having lived with gay neighbors ( I believe) I can tell you after a decade of living next door
I have no idea if they lust or who they lust after, or who they have lustful relations with
or even if they do. The men, and women, may have bible studies for all I know.

If the scriptures were referring to my neighbors, the readers would be baffled
as to what they were talking about. To be honest, I don't see hetro couples lusting
after each other. My neighbors, gay or not, have natural affection for each other.
I could go through each and show how they do not apply to committed, gay relationships.
Yes, non-committed relationships suffer. VD and more.

We live by his grace, not by gender based rules.
God does not discriminate on the basis of gender.

 

[ewq1938]

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

This refers to sexually open, active, pubic, bi-sexuals, who leave one partner
for another and do so based on lust and desires.

No, it refers to any one who enjoys homosexual relations. You have personally added "who leave one partner for another and do so based on lust and desires" to change what it means.

 

[SkyWriting]

No, it refers to any one who enjoys homosexual relations. You have personally added "who leave one partner for another and do so based on lust and desires" to change what it means.

No, it specifically refers to leaving one partner for another.
Which is bad for everyone. What you are suggesting is that
leaving one female for another is better....which is not.

It also covers "Using a woman" a crime you are busy ignoring.

 

[ewq1938]

No, it specifically refers to leaving one partner for another.

No, it says as I said it says, homosexuality is wrong. It speaks of men and women sinning yet you wish to change what it says. Why?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

No, it says as I said it says, homosexuality is wrong. It speaks of men and women sinning yet you wish to change what it says. Why?

The Lord says we all have rebellious hearts and our natural inclination is enmity against God... thank God He gives us the Grace to be able to follow Him and obey His Word!

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

As a person who once believed like you do, I'll be happy to show that each one of those
are not a condemnation of gender preferences. But I'll take the most direct one first.

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

This refers to sexually open, active, pubic, bi-sexuals, who leave one partner
for another and do so based on lust and desires.

Having lived with gay neighbors ( I believe) I can tell you after a decade of living next door
I have no idea if they lust or who they lust after, or who they have lustful relations with
or even if they do. The men, and women, may have bible studies for all I know.

If the scriptures were referring to my neighbors, the readers would be baffled
as to what they were talking about. To be honest, I don't see hetro couples lusting
after each other. My neighbors, gay or not, have natural affection for each other.
I could go through each and show how they do not apply to committed, gay relationships.
Yes, non-committed relationships suffer. VD and more.

We live by his grace, not by gender based rules.
God does not discriminate on the basis of gender.

Can you say the same about people living together outside of marriage? Or do you think coveting others possessions if ok as long as we don't do it openly. Is secret sin ok in your understanding of scripture?

 

[Cuddles333]

Anti-homosexual verses are in the NT too....God hasn't changed how he feels about it.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Actually, Paul is speaking of those pagan worshippers matching the target audience of the 18th and 20th chapters of Leviticus. Most Christians and non-Christians cannot see this because the chapters were 'sanitized' when they were translated from the Hebrew into the Greek languages. Theses pagan temples were as plentiful from the 2nd century on back, as, fast food places are today. History records that when Constantine decided to make Christianity the State religion, that he tore down all these pagan places of worship. That he was bewildered by how the male priests in theses places were dressed as women and wore long hair or wigs, and, how the women wore their hair cropped short and depending on if it was near, during, or shortly after the Adonis mourning period.....had their hair shaved off.

Many scholars have found the link to the writer Philo that Paul refers to here, which places the participants in the heterosexual perversion arena, not the homosexual perversion arena.


This is a very interesting study and I welcome the challenge from anyone to contact me to meet in the Formal Debate Proposal section to work out the details.

 

[Armoured]

No, it says as I said it says, homosexuality is wrong. It speaks of men and women sinning yet you wish to change what it says. Why?

Nowhere does the Bible say homosexuality is wrong. You probably need to read it again.

 

[Arcangl86]

Anti-homosexual verses are in the NT too....God hasn't changed how he feels about it.

Because God has never changed God's mind about anyt... oh wait!

 

[ewq1938]

Many scholars have found the link to the writer Philo that Paul refers to here, which places the participants in the heterosexual perversion arena, not the homosexual perversion arena.

Clearly it is about homosexual relations not heterosexual relations.

 

[ewq1938]

Nowhere does the Bible say homosexuality is wrong.

That's obviously wrong.

Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination.


Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.


Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

And the NT continues to condemn the practice of homosexuality.