Sex before marrieag - just not the women?

[Kayeliz]

First, I'm sorry if this is the wrong area, I wasn't sure where to post it, so if this is wrong, I'm kindly asking the mods to put this in the right area.
Recently, there was a discussion on a different Christian forum about sex before marriage. I know, old topic, has been discussed a thousand times. What shocked me, however, was that one of the very strict Christians there (who, admittedly, seems to be a bit of a misogynist, considering the way he writes about women), claimed that it was the women who were not supposed to have sex before getting married.
I had always understood that not having sex before marriage is something Christians would want both to do, the men and the women, but this guy on the forum claimed it just mattered that the woman was a virgin when getting married. He didn't explain how he came to that conclusions, generally he then likes to go of in the area of "I'm just telling you what God wants, if you don't like it, something is wrong with you" which is why I find it hard to have a discussion with him, when I get that instead of proper reasoing and explanations.

Is he right? Does it say anywhere in the Bible that just the women are supposed not to have sex before getting married, but it's fine for men?
Btw, this is not really a request for personal advice since I'm already married. I was just a bit shocked because I hadn't really heard that one beofre, but then I think in my case, it was a lot of assumptions, so maybe he really is right? I just don't quite understand why it would be important for the woman, but not for the man, to be a virgin until they get married.

 

[Sketcher]

Did he say that not waiting for marriage is fine for men? It's not fine for men. I'm still waiting.

 

[Saucy]

No he's wrong. It's just a measure of control the ultra-religious use to keep women down. It's written for both men and women to wait until marriage.

 

[archer75]

There are lots of social 'double standards' along these lines (oh, so many), but I'm not aware of any scriptural or traditional basis.

In general, when someone refuses to explain their position at all, you can be pretty sure they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Find me a scripture that says that marriage is defined by a piece of paper issued by civil government, and not, first consummation of union. What I see in scripture is: first joined, first cleaved unto, first becoming one flesh. First is first, so I don't see an "sex before marriage" as even possible in the bible. I see "first sex = married" all sex to anyone else afterward is apparently adultery.

 

[Kayeliz]

Did he say that not waiting for marriage is fine for men?

Yes, he said exactly that. Women are supposed to wait, but only they, not the men.
Generally, he does tend to go a bit far with a lot of stuff he writes, but I wanted other people's views on this because that one really surprised me.

 

[rockytopva]

The first council of the Apostles to the Gentiles...

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25-26 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. - Acts 12

"If ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well."

It is well for all Christians to keep themselves from fornication. And if they can't it is good for each man to have his own wife, and for each wife to have her own husband...

Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. - 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

 

[Sketcher]

Yes, he said exactly that. Women are supposed to wait, but only they, not the men.
Generally, he does tend to go a bit far with a lot of stuff he writes, but I wanted other people's views on this because that one really surprised me.

The rebukes against fornication and adultery are not just toward women, but also toward men. This guy is a loser.

Besides, if that's what he said, he's not even consistent. If it's OK for a man to fornicate, but not for a woman, then the fornicating man has to be helping the woman he is with to sin, which itself is sin. Or he would be engaging in homosexual relations. There's no way out of this for him, really.

 

[Goodbook]

If they were discussing it here on CF report the post and get the mods on to them.
Otherwise he's very mistaken. Warn him he's WAY off-base and then leave it.

It seems on many forums ppl go on there who don't know their Bible, twist scripture to suit themselves, or aren't even christians, possibly athiests trying to disrupt the forums. They will go and spy out forums seeing who they can rile up, mostly cos they are jealous.

This happened even in the early church. Their god is their belly.

 

[Ffraid]

So, assume for a moment that all women really go with it and don't have sex before marriage.

Who do men have sex before marriage with?

If you went 'ew', you have your answer.

 

[TurtleAnne]

From Mark 7:

17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?”20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”

It also seems like there are more verses addressing men (as in male humans) than women specifically or humans in general, when it comes to adultery and fornication both. Like this search here:25 Bible Verses About Adultery or this one BIBLE VERSES ABOUT FORNICATION

But even with that I don't think the standards are different, between the two.

And also at the same time, I believe that when someone is saved through Christ and dedicates their life to God and not sinning anymore, that if God is going to forgive them and forget their previous sins, then so should we, such as mentioned in Matthew 7.

Considering John 8:2-12, as a specific example of someone caught in adultery. And then all of the various verses about salvation from Jesus and sin, like from 1 John 1: 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

But whether or not someone has really been saved and washed of their sins, and goes forward dedicating their life to God as a disciple of Christ, well the scriptures also say we will know them by their fruits, which I think can be taken in part to mean that their behavior going forward will reflect the truth.

So just as I trust in Jesus' words about my own salvation, more than I give weight to the judgement of other humans, similarly for my brothers and sisters in Christ, I trust Jesus' words about them. So be they male or female, if they are saved and their sins washed away, and they are now going forward in a genuine effort to follow the teachings of Christ, then I do not care about their pasts, either.

 

[AvgJoe]

Find me a scripture that says that marriage is defined by a piece of paper issued by civil government, and not, first consummation of union. What I see in scripture is: first joined, first cleaved unto, first becoming one flesh. First is first, so I don't see an "sex before marriage" as even possible in the bible. I see "first sex = married" all sex to anyone else afterward is apparently adultery.

The Bible disagrees. While there is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that precisely refers to sex before marriage, 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality.

2) But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.​

In this verse, Paul states that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality. 1 Corinthians 7:2 is essentially saying that, because people cannot control themselves and so many are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married. Then they can fulfill their passions in a moral way.

Since 1 Corinthians 7:2 shows that sex before marriage is sexual immorality, then all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful, also condemn sex before marriage as sinful.

 

[Soyeong]

First, I'm sorry if this is the wrong area, I wasn't sure where to post it, so if this is wrong, I'm kindly asking the mods to put this in the right area.
Recently, there was a discussion on a different Christian forum about sex before marriage. I know, old topic, has been discussed a thousand times. What shocked me, however, was that one of the very strict Christians there (who, admittedly, seems to be a bit of a misogynist, considering the way he writes about women), claimed that it was the women who were not supposed to have sex before getting married.
I had always understood that not having sex before marriage is something Christians would want both to do, the men and the women, but this guy on the forum claimed it just mattered that the woman was a virgin when getting married. He didn't explain how he came to that conclusions, generally he then likes to go of in the area of "I'm just telling you what God wants, if you don't like it, something is wrong with you" which is why I find it hard to have a discussion with him, when I get that instead of proper reasoing and explanations.

Is he right? Does it say anywhere in the Bible that just the women are supposed not to have sex before getting married, but it's fine for men?
Btw, this is not really a request for personal advice since I'm already married. I was just a bit shocked because I hadn't really heard that one beofre, but then I think in my case, it was a lot of assumptions, so maybe he really is right? I just don't quite understand why it would be important for the woman, but not for the man, to be a virgin until they get married.

Hello,

He does not hold a position that I think many people would agree with. We must be careful not to confuse our interpretation of what is written as having the authority of God and being the way that God intended it to be understood.

During biblical times, inheritance laws played a much bigger role in regard to the survival of a community, so it was extremely important to establish the legitimacy of an heir. It is much easier to establish the virginity of a woman, so that played a more prominent role. For example, it was a common practice for a couple not to have sex until a year after they had been married to establish that the offspring did not come from an sexual encounter that the woman had prior to getting married. However, I still think it would be a strain to say sexual purity was only important for women.

 

[John Hyperspace]

The Bible disagrees. While there is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that precisely refers to sex before marriage, 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality.

2) But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.


In this verse, Paul states that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality. 1 Corinthians 7:2 is essentially saying that, because people cannot control themselves and so many are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married. Then they can fulfill their passions in a moral way.

Since 1 Corinthians 7:2 shows that sex before marriage is sexual immorality, then all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful, also condemn sex before marriage as sinful.

I propose it is your understanding of the bible that may disagree but, not necessarily the bible. The first thing I would again ask is, produce a passage defining "marriage" in the bible? I know that men define it by a slip of paper for tax purposes; but there is no hint of this in the bible, nor that God recognizes the slip of paper. But in the scripture it's very clear that when a man is joined to a woman the two become one. This would necessarily indicate that the very first consummation is an act of becoming one flesh; man and woman in consummation of union.

Now, your verse speaks of "fornication" but how is this understood? As sex before marriage? By what biblical definition of "marriage", you see? We can define the words of the bible with our own understanding, but that doesn't make the understanding correct. The Greek word (and Hebrew) translated as "fornication" both mean sex from the base of selling i.e. prostitution. Paul is admonishing each have a single partner in order to avoid engaging in prostitution, selling and buying of sex.

So the verse provides no biblical meaning for "marriage" and looks to be referencing prostitution to fulfill sexual desires, which are best fulfilled with a single partner.

 

[ValleyGal]

Marriage in the OT and the NT are based on the covenant between the husband and wife. It is a bilateral contract. It is not sex. Sex seals the contract.

 

[Norbert L]

We can define the words of the bible with our own understanding, but that doesn't make the understanding correct. The Greek word (and Hebrew) translated as "fornication" both mean sex from the base of selling i.e. prostitution. Paul is admonishing each have a single partner in order to avoid engaging in prostitution, selling and buying of sex.

So how do you explain the use of the word "inappropriate contenteia" in 1 Corinthians 5:1? Paul disciplined this person not because he was buying it from a prostitute, but because it was his step mother.

 

[paul1149]

Take a look at 1Cor 5, where Paul insists that the brother in an incestuous relationship be disfellowshipped. Perhaps the woman involved wasn't a Christian, but she isn't even mentioned with regard to church action. I've always considered that, if anything, more onus is on the male to maintain sexual purity in relationships, considering we are to regard the woman as the "weaker vessel" - a piece of fine china, if you will. The notion that the man has sexual license flies madly against all precepts of godliness and sanctification, let alone the many explicit exhortations to purity we have in the NT. Anyone holding that view is flirting with reprobation.

 

[John Hyperspace]

So how do you explain the use of the word "inappropriate contenteia" in 1 Corinthians 5:1? Paul disciplined this person not because he was buying it from a prostitute, but because it was his step mother.

It's really just simple deduction. I suppose you're aware that "inappropriate contenteia" means the root "to sell" and specifies "selling sex": thus the man at 1 Corinthians is guilty of "selling sex" with the person mentioned. That is the meaning of the word, and by which meaning the statement would be understood. To understand it in some other way would be against the use of the word; but by what reasoning?

Yet, the real issue here is, where/how does the bible define "marriage"? Before we can discuss "sex before marriage" we first have to know "what constitutes 'marriage' in the eyes of God": is it a slip of paper signed by the government for tax purposes? Or, is it consummation of union between a man and woman? The latter seems clearly stated several times, that the two become one flesh upon consummation of union. The latter doesn't seem to appear at all in scripture.

 

[Goodbook]

A scripture someone hasnt mentioned the episode where the woman was caught in adultery.

Notice that Jesus did not condemn her because the MEN were guilty as well.

See John 8:1-11

 

[Goodbook]

Marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman to be true/faithful to each other (that is why marriages begin with a BETROTHAL) . Fornication misses this, they may be one flesh, i.e uncovering the nakedness of each other but it is lust, not love.