Seven Days Before

[jgr]

Revelation 13 tel us that the Fourth Beast KINGDOM mentioned in Daniel 7:23-28 will have that structure.

1-The GOVERNMENT BEAST made of 10 worldwide administrative regions with its 10 rulers [ten horns] who have received no kingdom as yet.

2-The INDIVIDUAL WOUNDED AT THE HEAD THAT THE WORLD SHALL WORSHIP

3-THE FALSE PROPHET

Who are the first three beasts in Daniel 7?

 

[Riberra]

Who are the first three beasts in Daniel 7?

Babylon ....Greece... Rome.

 

[jgr]

Babylon ....Greece... Rome.

Close, but you missed the cigar too.
Babylon...Medo-Persia...Greece

Rome is the fourth.

 

[Riberra]

Close, but you missed the cigar too.
Babylon...Medo-Persia...Greece

Rome is the fourth.

I known about Medo-Persia ...
I get the impression that Medo-Persia have been conveniently added to make Rome the Fourth Beast... rather than something yet to come before Jesus' Second Coming.

What makes you think that Rome fulfill Revelation 13 ?

 

[jgr]

I known about Medo-Persia ...
I get the impression that Medo-Persia have been conveniently added to make Rome the Fourth Beast... rather than something yet to come before Jesus' Second Coming.

What makes you think that Rome fulfill Revelation 13 ?

Have you forgotten the account of the fall of Babylon in Daniel 5? It fell to the army of Cyrus of Persia, not to a Greek army.

 

[Riberra]

Have you forgotten the account of the fall of Babylon in Daniel 5? It fell to the army of Cyrus of Persia, not to a Greek army.

Persia was not a great empire...compared to Babylon - Greece -and- Rome ...
What makes you think Rome fulfill the fourth beast of Daniel 7:23-28 and Revelation 13 who talk about a Kingdom RULING UPON the WHOLE EARTH ?
Daniel 7:23
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all the kingdoms, and shall devour THE WHOLE EARTH, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

 

[jgr]

Persia was not a great empire...compared to Babylon - Greece -and- Rome ...
What makes you think Rome fulfill the fourth beast of Daniel 7:23-28 and Revelation 13 who talk about a Kingdom RULING UPON the WHOLE EARTH ?

It was great enough to conquer Babylon.

Imperial Rome fulfills the fourth beast of Daniel 7:7. All four beasts/kingdoms are described in terms of the known earth of that day.

 

[Riberra]

It was great enough to conquer Babylon.

Imperial Rome fulfills the fourth beast of Daniel 7:7.

Rome have NOT fulfilled what is described Daniel 7:23-28 about the fourth beast ...

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all the kingdoms, and shall devour THE WHOLE EARTH, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

 

[Servant232]

The fourth beast was the Roman Empire, and when it collapsed, out of its head, the western empire arose 10 nations Daniel 7:20

And Another horn/Nation arose after them and plucks up three of those ten by the roots. Daniel 7:8

The Ten nations that arose

England - The Revolutionary War

France - The Louisiana Purchase

Spain - The Spanish American War

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A1 B2 C3 D4 E5 F6 G7 H8 I9 J10 K11 L12 M13
N14 O15 P16 Q17 R18 S19 T20 U21 V22 W23 X24 Y25 Z26

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. Dan 7:8


There were three = 163

England France Spain = 163

One hundred sixty three = 261

The United States of America = 261

_______

The Revolutionary War = 270

The Louisiana Purchase = 225

The Spanish American War = 225

270+225+225 = 720

Daniel 7:20

 

[Riberra]

The fourth beast was the Roman Empire, and when it collapsed, out of its head, the western empire arose 10 nations Daniel 7:20

And Another horn/Nation arose after them and plucks up three of those ten by the roots. Daniel 7:8

The Ten nations that arose

England - The Revolutionary War

France - The Louisiana Purchase

Spain - The Spanish American War

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A1 B2 C3 D4 E5 F6 G7 H8 I9 J10 K11 L12 M13
N14 O15 P16 Q17 R18 S19 T20 U21 V22 W23 X24 Y25 Z26

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. Dan 7:8


There were three = 163

England France Spain = 163

One hundred sixty three = 261

The United States of America = 261

_______

The Revolutionary War = 270

The Louisiana Purchase = 225

The Spanish American War = 225

270+225+225 = 720

Daniel 7:20

Obviously Daniel 7:21-22 have not been fulfilled ...it imply that God [Jesus]will come to put an end to the Little Horn Kingdom ...Which refers to [Revelation 13 > the Beast Kingdom] and [Revelation 19:11-21 >The Coming of Jesus to defeat the Beast and his armies]


Daniel 7:21-22
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 until the ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High, and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

 

[Servant232]

Obviously Daniel 7:21-22 have not been fulfilled ...it imply that God [Jesus]will come to put an end to the Little Horn Kingdom ...
Daniel 7:21-22
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 until the ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High, and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Yes He will, and the Angels will shout Hallelujah when the daughter of babylon is destroyed... and the USA is still here, so it hasn't happened yet.

If you want to get into the millions of Christians that have been murdered by the USA and her policies, on how she is drunk with the blood of the saints already, we can, Did you know that ground zero, the target for the second atomic bomb was the largest church in Asia at the time, located in Nagasaki Japan... Or about Pol Pot and tortured believers and the CIA connections...



Rev 17:12

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The Continuity of government is the responsibility of The Federal Emergency Management Agency

of which the United States has been divided into 10 regions.


Revelation Seventeen Twelve = 317

The Federal Emergency Management Agency = 327

The Continuity of government = 337


Babylon is a three-part city

religious - Independent Vatican City

political - Independent Washington D.C.

economic - Independent City of London

All Three Independent city-states

The mother of harlots = 226

The roman catholic church = 226

And the great city was divided into three parts ... Rev 16:19 KJV

Revelation Sixteen Nineteen = 303

And the great city was divided into three parts = 448

Vatican City = 127
Washington DC = 137
The City of London = 185

127+137+185 = 449

 

[jgr]

Rome have NOT fulfilled what is described Daniel 7:23-28 about the fourth beast ...

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all the kingdoms, and shall devour THE WHOLE EARTH, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

WHOLE EARTH is a symbolic description of the inhabited regions of the known world at that time.

Your futurized beast/kingdom doesn't match the WHOLE EARTH description; I didn't see Antarctica in your post 200 schematic.

 

[Riberra]

WHOLE EARTH is a symbolic description of the inhabited regions of the known world at that time.

The demonstration is done that the Vatican have not fulfilled every aspect of what is described in Revelation 13...and Revelation 17:8-17....Jesus have still not come to defeat the Beast and his armies as described in Revelation 19:11-21....and the Saints have still not inherited the Kingdom mentioned in Daniel 7:21-22.

Your futurized beast/kingdom doesn't match the WHOLE EARTH description; I didn't see Antarctica in your post 200 schematic.

Nobody is living there except some scientific teams ....

The people who travel to or live in Antarctica fall into two main groups, those who live and work on scientific research stations or bases, and tourists.

Who lives in Antarctica? - The Antarctic Population

 

[jgr]

The demonstration is done that the Vatican have not fulfilled every aspect of what is described in Revelation 13...and Revelation 17....Jesus have still not come to defeat the Beast and his armies as described in Revelation 19:11-21....and the Saints have still not inherited the Kingdom mentioned in Daniel 7:21-22.



Nobody is living there except some scientific teams ....

The people who travel to or live in Antarctica fall into two main groups, those who live and work on scientific research stations or bases, and tourists.

Who lives in Antarctica? - The Antarctic Population

Scientific teams are not nobody. They're real people.

However, there is nothing in the description of the 4th beast which requires that everywhere on the WHOLE EARTH be populated. There is in fact nothing about inhabitation or population anywhere on the WHOLE EARTH in the description of the 4th beast.

If you are insistent on a strict literal definition of WHOLE EARTH, then your futurized fulfillment scenario for the 4th beast fails the test.

 

[Riberra]

Scientific teams are not nobody. They're real people.

I should have been more precise....nobody is living there permanently !!!

However, there is nothing in the description of the 4th beast which requires that everywhere on the WHOLE EARTH be populated.
There is in fact nothing about inhabitation or population anywhere on the WHOLE EARTH in the description of the 4th beast.

The point is not that every part of the WHOLE Earth be inhabited ...even if that is actually the case ....remember, as you point out the scientific teams in Antarctica are people.

The point mentioned in
Revelation 13 is that EVERY INHABITANT ON THE WHOLE EARTH WILL RECEIVE A MARK OR WILL BE PUT TO DEATH IF THEY REFUSE.
Revelation 13
14 And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by reason of the signs which it was given him to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast who hath the stroke of the sword and lived.

15 And it was given [unto him] to give breath to it, [even] to the image to the breast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; 17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, [even] the name of the beast or the number of his name.

It can be very comforting to think that all that is only spiritual or have already been fulfilled....or as the pre-tribbers claim [wishful thinking] ,that they will not be there when this will happen.

 

[jgr]

I should have been more precise....nobody is living there permanently !!!

Your strict literal definition of WHOLE EARTH necessitates the inclusion of Antarctica, which is of course part of the WHOLE EARTH, whether or not there is any human presence. Your schematic omits Antarctica, thus does not fit your definition of WHOLE EARTH, and thus does not meet the requirement for a futurized fulfillment.

You are also confusing the issue of what the Reformers proclaimed by attempting to link the Daniel and Revelation prophecies. There are unquestionable correlations, e.g. ten kingdoms and blasphemies, but also significant differences, e.g. no mention of four beasts or a little horn or three horns in Revelation. There is therefore no absolute guarantee that Daniel and Revelation are referring to exactly the same entities and events. The Reformers focused virtually exclusively on Daniel in their recognition and proclamation of the prophetic fulfillments. We should do the same.

 

[Riberra]

Your strict literal definition of WHOLE EARTH necessitates the inclusion of Antarctica, which is of course part of the WHOLE EARTH, whether or not there is any human presence. Your schematic omits Antarctica, thus does not fit your definition of WHOLE EARTH, and thus does not meet the requirement for a futurized fulfillment.

Everyone on the whole earth will receive a mark or if they refuse they will be killed...no matter if the schematic omits Antarctica,

 

[jgr]

Everyone on the whole earth will receive a mark or if they refuse they will be killed...no matter if the schematic omits Antarctica,

Whatever. But let's limit our discussion to Daniel, as the Reformers did.

And scripturally and historically, a significant number of the Daniel 7 descriptions of what followed the demise of the fourth beast, imperial Rome; find fulfillment in the papacy.

 

[Riberra]

Whatever. But let's limit our discussion to Daniel, as the Reformers did.

And scripturally and historically, a significant number of the Daniel 7 descriptions of what followed the demise of the fourth beast, imperial Rome; find fulfillment in the papacy.

Daniel 7 is only the "pre-view" >>> while Revelation 13 ...Revelation 17:8-17 and Revelation 19:11-21 give the details ie [UNSEAL Daniel 7 prophecy].

As i said earlier, the reformers have done a sloppy work >>by ignoring the details given in Revelation cited above...and you are happy with that !!!

The proof is that you don't believe that the /Antechrist (the son of perdition)/ will come before the true Christ Jesus.
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, THE SON OF PERDITION;

 

[jgr]

Daniel 7 is only the "blue-print" >>> while Revelation 13 ...Revelation 17:8-17 and Revelation 9:11-21 give the details.

Do you have Scripture stating that Daniel 7 is a blueprint?

Daniel contains certain details. Revelation contains some of the same and some others. Revelation does not invalidate Daniel. Scripture does not contradict itself. The Reformers could proclaim Daniel without proclaiming Revelation and still be completely scriptural. The only sloppiness is dispensational denial of the significance of the Reformation, and the attempt to turn its truths into a futurized fantasy.

The proof is that you don't believe that the /AC (the son of perdition)/ will come before the true Christ Jesus.

I have no idea where you got that from. The Reformers declared that the man of sin and son of perdition in 2 Thessalonians 2 was the papacy. Obviously he's come long before Jesus' second coming. From the Westminster Confession:

Chapter XXV
VI. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ.[13] Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.[14]


"Futurism fantasizes. History realizes."