Seven Days Before

[Riberra]

Do you have Scripture stating that Daniel 7 is a blueprint?

Daniel contains certain details. Revelation contains some of the same and some others. Revelation does not invalidate Daniel. Scripture does not contradict itself. The Reformers could proclaim Daniel without proclaiming Revelation and still be completely scriptural.

Where did i said that Revelation 13 ...Revelation 17:8-17 and Revelation 19:11-21 invalidate Daniel 7 ?I said that it give more details who complete the Prophecy of Daniel 7 ....

 

[jgr]

Where did i said that Revelation 13 ...Revelation 17:8-17 and Revelation 9:11-21 invalidate Daniel 7 ?I said that it give more details who complete the Prophecy of Daniel 7 ....

I didn't say that you said it. I said it myself.

 

[Riberra]

I didn't say that you said it. I said it myself.

What is your interpretation of
Revelation 13 ...Revelation 17:8-17 and Revelation 19:11-21 if you don't think that these verses are related to the Little Horn of Daniel 7 ?

 

[jgr]

What is your interpretation of
Revelation 13 ...Revelation 17:8-17 and Revelation 19:11-21 if you don't think that these verses are related to the Little Horn of Daniel 7 ?

That's a good question, and one that I haven't yet formed an opinion about.

It's apparent that the Reformers hadn't formed an opinion either.

 

[Riberra]

That's a good question, and one that I haven't yet formed an opinion about.

It's apparent that the Reformers hadn't formed an opinion either.

Apart from saying that the Papacy is the Little Horn /"Antichrist" of Daniel 7:8 ,what does the Reformers have done ?

 

[jgr]

Apart from saying that the Papacy is the Little Horn of Daniel 7 ,what does the Reformers have done ?

You can google as well as I.

You and I wouldn't be having this discussion without them, because the historical papacy prohibited access to the Scriptures by the masses.

So give thanks for the freedoms purchased for us, often in blood and lives, by the Reformers.

 

[Riberra]

You can google as well as I.

I have ...and with no surprise the goal of the Reformers was to get "their part of the cake" of power and money by trying to convert Catholics to became Protestants in their Protestant Church who of course they defined as the "true Church"....

The Reformation - Facts & Summary - HISTORY.com
The Protestant Reformation was the 16th-century religious, political, intellectual and cultural upheaval that splintered Catholic Europe, setting in place the structures and beliefs that would define the continent in the modern era. In northern and central Europe, reformers like Martin Luther, John Calvin and Henry VIII challenged papal authority and questioned the Catholic Church’s ability to define Christian practice. They argued for a religious and political redistribution of power into the hands of Bible- and pamphlet-reading pastors and princes. The disruption triggered wars, persecutions and the so-called Counter-Reformation, the Catholic Church’s delayed but forceful response to the Protestants.

 

[jgr]

I have ...and with no surprise the goal of the Reformers was to get their part of the cake of power and money by trying to convert Catholics to became Protestants in their Protestant Church...

The Reformation - Facts & Summary - HISTORY.com
The Protestant Reformation was the 16th-century religious, political, intellectual and cultural upheaval that splintered Catholic Europe, setting in place the structures and beliefs that would define the continent in the modern era. In northern and central Europe, reformers like Martin Luther, John Calvin and Henry VIII challenged papal authority and questioned the Catholic Church’s ability to define Christian practice. They argued for a religious and political redistribution of power into the hands of Bible- and pamphlet-reading pastors and princes. The disruption triggered wars, persecutions and the so-called Counter-Reformation, the Catholic Church’s delayed but forceful response to the Protestants.

So you wish that the Reformation had never happened?

 

[Riberra]

So you wish that the Reformation had never happened?

Since 1830 the Protestant Churches have [also] been reformed....

John Nelson Darby - Wikipedia

John Nelson Darby was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism [Pre-tribulation rapture of the "true" Church] and Futurism.

 

[jgr]

Since 1830 the Protestant Churches have [also] been reformed....

John Nelson Darby - Wikipedia

John Nelson Darby was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism [Pre-tribulation rapture of the "true" Church] and Futurism.

You didn't answer my earlier question.

Since 1830 the Protestant Churches have [also] been reformed....

More deformed than reformed.

John Nelson Darby - Wikipedia

John Nelson Darby was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism [Pre-tribulation rapture of the "true" Church] and Futurism.

Correct, modern dispensationalism aka modernism. Pretrib rapture is modernist doctrine.

Futurism was born in the 16th century's apostate papal counter-reformation.

Not doctrines I'd want in my spiritual pedigree.

 

[Riberra]

You can google as well as I.

You and I wouldn't be having this discussion without them, because the historical papacy prohibited access to the Scriptures by the masses.

So give thanks for the freedoms purchased for us, often in blood and lives, by the Reformers.

Gutenberg In 1455 -[thus long before the Reformation]-printed a Bible in Latin ...and that Bible was accessible to anyone who wanted to purchase it...the Catholic Church have never prohibited the lecture of the Bible.

In 1455, Gutenberg produced what is considered to be the first book ever printed: a Latin language Bible, printed in Mainz, Germany.

Gutenberg Bible

 

[Riberra]

So you wish that the Reformation had never happened?

The Reformation have only produced division among Christians and religious conflicts in England between Protestants and Catholic ....Satan must be laughing a lot.

 

[jgr]

Gutenberg In 1455 -[thus long before the Reformation]-printed a Bible in Latin ...and that Bible was accessible to anyone who wanted to purchase it...the Catholic Church have never prohibited the lecture of the Bible.

In 1455, Gutenberg produced what is considered to be the first book ever printed: a Latin language Bible, printed in Mainz, Germany.

Gutenberg Bible

Council of Toulouse, 1229
"We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old and the New Testament; unless anyone from the motives of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."[8][9]

 

[jgr]

The Reformation have only produced division among Christians and religious conflicts in England between Protestants and Catholic ....Satan must be laughing a lot.

I interpret that to be "I wish the Reformation had never happened."

Well, if you're not already a Catholic, you should waste no time joining. I'm certain that they would be overjoyed to welcome you.

 

[Riberra]

Council of Toulouse, 1229
"We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old and the New Testament; unless anyone from the motives of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."[8][9]

The reason for the prohibition is explained below...

‘In early times, the Bible was read freely by the lay people, and the Fathers constantly encourage them to do so, although they also insist on the obscurity of the sacred text. No prohibitions were issued against the popular reading of the Bible. New dangers came during the Middle Ages. When the heresy of the Albigenses arose there was a danger from corrupt translations, and also from the fact that the heretics tried to make the faithful judge the Church by their own interpretation of the Bible. To meet these evils, the Council of Toulouse (1229) and Tarragona (1234) forbade the laity to read the vernacular translations of the Bible. Pius IV required the bishops to refuse lay persons leave to read even Catholic versions of the Scripture, unless their confessors or parish priests judged that such readings was likely to prove beneficial.’ (Addis and Arnold, Catholic Dictionary, The Catholic Publications Society Co., N.Y., 1887, p. 82).

Source:
Bible Forbidden to the Laity

 

[jgr]

The reason for the prohibition is explained below...

‘In early times, the Bible was read freely by the lay people, and the Fathers constantly encourage them to do so, although they also insist on the obscurity of the sacred text. No prohibitions were issued against the popular reading of the Bible. New dangers came during the Middle Ages. When the heresy of the Albigenses arose there was a danger from corrupt translations, and also from the fact that the heretics tried to make the faithful judge the Church by their own interpretation of the Bible. To meet these evils, the Council of Toulouse (1229) and Tarragona (1234) forbade the laity to read the vernacular translations of the Bible. Pius IV required the bishops to refuse lay persons leave to read even Catholic versions of the Scripture, unless their confessors or parish priests judged that such readings was likely to prove beneficial.’ (Addis and Arnold, Catholic Dictionary, The Catholic Publications Society Co., N.Y., 1887, p. 82).

Source:
Bible Forbidden to the Laity

So these do not apply to you and me?

2 Timothy 3:16 ESV
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Acts 17:11 ESV
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

2 Timothy 3:15 ESV
And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:15 ESV
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Romans 15:4 ESV
For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

[Riberra]

So these do not apply to you and me?

...we don't try to corrupt the Scriptures.

 

[jgr]

...we don't try to corrupt the Scriptures.

There was no greater corruption of the Scriptures than that perpetuated by the papacy. But God always preserves and protects His Word.

 

[Riberra]

But God always preserves and protects His Word

True....lets do the test.


Revelation 20:1-5 tell us about the 1,000 years reign of Jesus with those who will be beheaded by the Beast during the tribulation .... Some Protestant Denominations does not agree about what is clearly written, and try to say that the 1,000 years means only a long period of time who have started 2,000 years ago....That is an example of an attempt to corrupt the Scriptures.

Revelation 20:1-5 KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[jgr]

True....lets do the test.


Revelation 20:1-5 tell us about the 1,000 years reign of Jesus with those who will be beheaded by the Beast during the tribulation .... Some Protestant Denominations does not agree about what is clearly written, and try to say that the 1,000 years means only a long period of time who have started 2,000 years ago....That is an example of an attempt to corrupt the Scriptures.

Revelation 20:1-5 KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Are these Scriptures corrupt?

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecclesiastes 6:6
Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.