Serious Question: Is Modalism a Damnable Heresy or just a Heresy ?

[sdowney717]

And in Luke 10, Jesus distinguishes Himself from the Father.
Father and Son are spoken of as 2 different persons who know each other.

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

 

[A_Thinker]

To A Thinker: Paul did tell Titus to reject a heretic after rebuking him. (Titus 3:-10-11, Gal 5:20, 2nd Pet. 2:1)

Yes ... he did.

Because he was already having trouble with false teaching in the church. This teaching, however, is given to Titus, a teacher-leader in the church. It was not directing all christians to become heresy hunters.

And I think the the O.P.'s question has more to do with the definition of doctrine. For instance, ... how definitive should we be trying to get an understanding the infinite nature of God (with our finite minds) ?

 

[A_Thinker]

The trinity of the Godhead is one of the mysteries of the faith.

1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Amen ...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Ps.22! Jesus Saying, This IS Me People!!! Fulfilling prophecy is the most likely, IMO. This Psalm shows Him on the Cross as a prophecy David made. But this is a hard verse, for sure!!

If we compare 2nd Cor. 5:19, Hebrews 2, Isa. 53, and John 17, we see that whatever was going on, God didn't leave Him. Maybe turned His back on Him-as many believe, or maybe something to do with His soul? God was judging everyone's sin-past present, and future, by putting it on the sinless Lamb of God. That's why it only had to be done once. (Hebrews 10:1-10) Praise God!
(by the way, at the end of "Hang on to your life", by the Guess Who, this is quoted). Yeah, I'm an old rocker.

I don't remember them!
Musta been in the 70s. I was busy raising two kids and that whole decade is almost a fog.

As to Psalm 22,,,yes! I also believe Jesus was probably reciting that.

I love your joy in the Lord!
Blessings

 

[sdowney717]

Yes ... he did.

Because he was already having trouble with false teaching in the church. This teaching, however, is given to Titus, a teacher-leader in the church. It was not directing all christians to become heresy hunters.

And I think the the O.P.'s question has more to do with the definition of doctrine. For instance, ... how definitive should we be trying to get an understanding the infinite nature of God (with our finite minds) ?

God's Holy Spirit reveals to us everything we need to know that pertains to life and godliness.

1 Corinthians 2

6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God [c]ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[oldrunner]

Yes ... he did.

Because he was already having trouble with false teaching in the church. This teaching, however, is given to Titus, a teacher-leader in the church. It was not directing all christians to become heresy hunters.

And I think the the O.P.'s question has more to do with the definition of doctrine. For instance, ... how definitive should we be trying to get an understanding the infinite nature of God (with our finite minds) ?

Eventhough not all Scripture is directed directly toward us, it is for all of us. All the warnings about keeping sound doctrine/teaching, is for everyone in the Body, not just a Pastor, Priest, or leader. The more the congregation knows, the less chance a false teaching- or teacher, will be tolerated. And it might just be their Pastor or Priest.

Jesus taught us to be "fruit inspectors", in Mat. 7:15-20. We can know a false teacher only by knowing what the real "friut", looks like. Right? That be sound/right doctrine, and a life that lines up with the Scripture.

We have a common creed that just about every denomination adheres to- and is stated on this web site. People that have been a Christian awhile should know the basics of true/false doctrine. Someone that continues in false doctrine after having multible reproofs or rebukes, needs to look in the mirror and examine their heart to see if they are really in the faith. (Prov. 17:10)

It's like a person that is smelling something really stinky! They look all around for the stink, and then they found out it is them that stinks afterall. I don't know how many times this has happened to me, but it's been more than once, for sure!

 

[sdowney717]

Eventhough not all Scripture is directed directly toward us, it is for all of us. All the warnings about keeping sound doctrine/teaching, is for everyone in the Body, not just a Pastor, Priest, or leader. The more the congregation knows, the less chance a false teaching- or teacher, will be tolerated. And it might just be their Pastor or Priest.

Jesus taught us to be "fruit inspectors", in Mat. 7:15-20. We can know a false teacher only by knowing what the real "friut", looks like. Right? That be sound/right doctrine, and a life that lines up with the Scripture.

We have a common creed that just about every denomination adheres to- and is stated on this web site. People that have been a Christian awhile should know the basics of true/false doctrine. Someone that continues in false doctrine after having multible reproofs or rebukes, needs to look in the mirror and examine their heart to see if they are really in the faith. (Prov. 17:10)

It's like a person that is smelling something really stinky! They look all around for the stink, and then they found out it is them that stinks afterall. I don't know how many times this has happened to me, but it's been more than once, for sure!

Good fruit are the fruits of the Holy Spirit appearing in your life.
Everyone must bear good fruit or they will be thrown into the fire as they are unsaved unregenerate bad trees not having the Spirit of God indwelling them. Jesus saves us from the wrath to come.

A good tree bears good fruit, and bad tree bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fruits.
A tree is known by its fruits.
And the fruit is of the lips for out of the heart the mouth speaks, so we will know them by what they say, by their doctrine, by their life.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

I'm inclined to say yes because that still affirms the belief that Jesus is God incarnate.

However, that wouldn't keep the belief from being a heresy, if that matters, and it wouldn't go for every other anti-Trinitarian theory that has ever come along.

Since "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit" (Psalms 34:18) who come to Him and trust the risen Lord Jesus to save them on his account (implicitly attributing deity), then they can be saved since as you say, they believe that Jesus is God incarnate.

But that does not mean that modalists are saved, only that some can be, though confused about the nature of God.

But i think that is less likely with those who earnestly defend this theologically, and also preach one must be baptized "in Jesus name," excluding the trinitarian formula, and speak in tongues to be saved. That tends toward cultic faith, which excludes those who are not of their flock from having true faith.

 

[sdowney717]

Jesus's promise is that His sheep will hear, believe and follow Him and He gives to them eternal life.
They will not listen to the voice of a stranger.
So they will not believe in a false christ.
They will have an anointing from God to know the truth and have no need for anyone to teach them, the Holy Spirit will teach them and they will abide in Him.

John 10
1 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

I john 2
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

One thing you will note, the apostles were all uniformly confident in salvation being certain for those God elected, called and preserved in Christ, since they are His people, the sheep of His pasture, He will lose none of all that the Father has given Him and will raise all of them up on the Last Day.