Senate Passes Historic Tax Cuts and Jobs Act 51-48

[Calminian]

Just about a done deal. Have to admit, I was doubtful at times. Props to Trump and Congress. Hafta give up for McConnell and Ryan. Senate Republicans were totally united. No VP tie breaker necessary.

Just one little trip back to the house, and onto Trump's desk.

Can't wait for the phony "tax cuts for the rich" arguments that are sure to come—one of the biggest political lies of the 21st century. But we'll take those as the come.

Senate Passes Historic Tax Cuts and Jobs Act 51-48

The Senate passed the historic Tax Cuts and Jobs Act on Tuesday, sending the bill to the House, and soon to President Donald Trump to sign.


BREAKING: Senate Passes Trump Tax Bill 51-48 in Midnight Showdown
December 19, 2017, 11:50 pm by Cristina Laila


POTUS Trump Fires Off Midnight Celebratory Tweet After Senate Passes GOP Tax Bill – Gloats “Terrible” Obamacare Mandate Repealed
December 20, 2017, 12:42 am by Cristina Laila

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
The United States Senate just passed the biggest in history Tax Cut and Reform Bill. Terrible Individual Mandate (ObamaCare)Repealed. Goes to the House tomorrow morning for final vote. If approved, there will be a News Conference at The White House at approximately 1:00 P.M.

10:09 PM - 19 Dec 2017​

 

[Basil the Great]

I was doubtful until the very end almost, but my uncle told me last week that it was going to pass.

 

[Calminian]

I was doubtful until the very end almost, but my uncle told me last week that it was going to pass.

Props to your uncle, a man of great insight and foresight.

Some immediate effects of the new tax bill.


TRUMPMAS: Comcast Announces $50 BILLION INVESTMENT Due To Historic GOP Tax Reform



TRUMP EFFECT: Fifth Third Bancorp Raises Minimum Hourly Wage, Issues Bonuses To Employees Due To GOP Tax Reform


TRUMP EFFECT: Boeing Announces $300 Million Investment Initiative Thanks To GOP Tax Reform


TRUMP EFFECT: AT&T Announces it Will Pay 200,000 US Employees ‘Special $1,000 Bonus’ Due to GOP Tax Reform Bill

 

[Phil 1:21]

 

[Yarddog]

Just about a done deal. Have to admit, I was doubtful at times. Props to Trump and Congress. Hafta give up for McConnell and Ryan. Senate Republicans were totally united. No VP tie breaker necessary.

Just one little trip back to the house, and onto Trump's desk.

Can't wait for the phony "tax cuts for the rich" arguments that are sure to come—one of the biggest political lies of the 21st century. But we'll take those as the come.

10:09 PM - 19 Dec 2017​

There is nothing phony that this is a tax cut for the rich. Throwing the poor and middle class a bone to keep them happy does not change the intentions of this bill. Look to history to see how these things play out. Ran away debt, a short term upswing in the economy and then and big recession and big layoffs. (Hopefully that won't happen this time but history tends to repeat itself)

 

[Yekcidmij]

Can't wait for the phony "tax cuts for the rich" arguments that are sure to come—one of the biggest political lies of the 21st century. But we'll take those as the come.

I think it's just a mathematical truth that the biggest benefits of this tax cut are intended to be corporations and individuals with high effective tax rates, especially in states with low state and local taxes. For individuals, most will see a small cut of about 15% on their income taxes, but a corporation with an eff. rate of 40% would see a huge 50% cut down to 21% (of course, most corp's effective tax rates are already as low as or lower than the new statutory rate, so I'm not really sure that it's actually that beneficial). People who are shareholders/unitholders of pass through entities could see large cuts too since most are being taxed on those at ordinary income levels of >30% but will be taxed at 20%. I for one don't really care - it's their money, not mine, but the largest beneficiaries are corporations and the more wealthy, they just aren't the only beneficiaries.

I personally wish the income tax rate on everyone were zero so that everyone keeps everything they earn.

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
The United States Senate just passed the biggest in history Tax Cut and Reform Bill. Terrible Individual Mandate (ObamaCare)Repealed. Goes to the House tomorrow morning for final vote. If approved, there will be a News Conference at The White House at approximately 1:00 P.M.

10:09 PM - 19 Dec 2017​

Is it really the largest ever? Reagan's were pretty large.

 

[Calminian]

There is nothing phony that this is a tax cut for the rich. Throwing the poor and middle class a bone to keep them happy does not change the intentions of this bill. Look to history to see how these things play out. Ran away debt, a short term upswing in the economy and then and big recession and big layoffs. (Hopefully that won't happen this time but history tends to repeat itself)

Unfortunately you have no idea what you're talking about. That's what's so sad about this whole thing. You don't get that taxes on businesses are really indirect taxes on the poor and middle class. I suppose I could try to explain it to you but, i've been down this road with liberals many times.

 

[Yarddog]

Unfortunately you have no idea what you're talking about.

No, I've been before.

That's what's so sad about this whole thing. You don't get that taxes on businesses are really indirect taxes on the poor and middle class.

When we see a significant price drop at the counter then I'll agree with you but if we see a significant amount of this money going to stock holders and bonuses for Corporate boards, like they did with bailout money, then you can agree with me.

I suppose I could try to explain it to you but, i've been down this road with liberals many times.

Sounds like Trump. He doesn't know what he is talking about on many issues but wants people to trust his word. No thanks.

Now, some companies are run by good people and they will use money wisely but far too many are greedy dogs and will act just like they did when Reagan and Bush cut taxes.

 

[Calminian]

...Now, some companies are run by good people....

No, it has nothing to do with being good. AT&T just gave thousand dollar bonuses to their employees directly because of the tax cut, and announced major expansions. They're not Trump lovers nor inherently good. They are businessmen and want to inspire their employees as much as they can because it's good for business, and tax cuts give them a means to do it.

Your whole line thinking is backward. Currently we have a large amount of businesses moving to Ireland. Do you know why? Because they've lowered their corporate tax to 12%. Many other European nations have done similar. Is it because they're all right-winger? LOL! I doubt even you would make that charge. They did it to lure companies to there country. It's good business. This is one area where we would do well to take Europe's lead.

Taxes are part of a companies cost of doing business. They have to be taken into account, and they have to be paid for. It's common sense.

 

[Yekcidmij]

but if we see a significant amount of this money going to stock holders and bonuses for Corporate boards, like they did with bailout money,

Of course, this isn't bailout money, so it's not the same. This is their money that they're getting to keep. Who really cares if it goes to stockholders and corporate boards (btw, I agree this is likely to be the average outcome, though I could be wrong) and why should they care what other people do with their money? This is the stockholder's money, and they elect a board of directors to determine what capital allocations, bonuses, dividends, and buybacks are in their best interest. If they determine that the CEO gets a fat paycheck, so what? It's theirs to give out.

Now, some companies are run by good people and they will use money wisely but far too many are greedy dogs and will act just like they did when Reagan and Bush cut taxes.

How do you know what's wisest for all companies? Why are buybacks, dividends, and bonuses necessarily unwise? I mean, if a company looks at it's available capital allocation options, people are doing their fiduciary duty, and they determine that the best use of their own capital is that the CEO should get a fat paycheck and/or the shareholders should get some extra dividends and buybacks, wouldn't that be the wise thing to do?

Apparently AT&T has looked at their options and determined that their employees should get bonuses. That's great! It's their money and they get to determine the wisest way to spend it.

 

[Yarddog]

No, it has nothing to do with being good.

So, you believe that companies being run by bad people is good? Strange.

AT&T just gave thousand dollar bonuses to their employees directly because of the tax cut,

Incorrect. The bonuses which they are giving employees are from contract negotiations. They said that they will give another grand whenever Trump signs the bill.

and announced major expansions.

Announcing what they will do and what they actually may be completely different. Hopefully they follow through but as a former President of a Railroad union, I believe it when they do it.

Your whole line thinking is backward.

So, you agree with what US Corporations did after the Reagan and Bush tax cuts and the Bush bailout money and give all those additional profits as bonuses for CEOs?

Taxes are part of a companies cost of doing business. They have to be taken into account, and they have to be paid for. It's common sense.

And? Tell us something that the average Joe doesn't know

Here's something. You boast about At&T's claim but of the top 20 corporations on the S&P list, only two have said that they will use the money to expand their business and add employees. Instead they will use the money to pay share holders, pay down company debt, and for mergers which may reduce employees. That means that only 10% of companies, by these numbers will do something to help fix the problems which Trump says he will fix.

Fortune mag says that by the time companies get around to doing something positive for the economy, the huge debt left by this tax cut will choke off real progress and a recession will set in.

 

[Yekcidmij]

So, you agree with what US Corporations did after the Reagan and Bush tax cuts and the Bush bailout money and give all those additional profits as bonuses for CEOs?

What's their to agree or disagree with? It's their money, not "ours." I think it may really be an indictment of the administration in the effectiveness of the intended purpose of the tax cut. I think they same will probably be able to be said about the current tax cut. The problem to me wouldn't be agreeing or disagreeing about what other people do with their own money (unless it's illegal or something) - it's their earnings, not mine, and I'm not in a position to agree or disagree (unless I happen to be a shareholder, management, or employee). The problem is the policy, it's intent and likely effectiveness and probable outcomes.

Instead they will use the money to pay share holders, pay down company debt, and for mergers which may reduce employees.

All of these could be an efficient use of capital.

That means that only 10% of companies, by these numbers will do something to help fix the problems which Trump says he will fix.

Seems to me that a lot of the economic "problems" Trump wants to solve either aren't problems or aren't solved through the policies he wants to enact.

Fortune mag says

I wouldn't cite Fortune magazine as a source about a future which has yet to happen.

that by the time companies get around to doing something positive for the economy, the huge debt left by this tax cut will choke off real progress and a recession will set in.

I think the Republicans will eventually try to get around to cutting spending in order to claim that they are addressing the debt. But I agree - this will increase the debt. Of course, who can say if that increase leads to a recession. Government debt doesn't seem a necessary cause for recession. In fact, since one of the components of GDP is "Government Expenditures," then by definition an increase in deficit financing will stand to boost GDP.

 

[Yarddog]

What's their to agree or disagree with? It's their money, not "ours."

Not entirely true. An economy is like a big ecosystem that needs constant churning. Money needs to move in order for the system to work. A corporation needs people in order for it to sustain so that corp. needs to pay the people who work to keep it alive. It needs people to buy its product and those people need money to buy it. When the money flow is restricted to move from top to bottom and then back again, everybody suffers.

If the corporation hoards its money and the workers hoard their money the ecosystem fails.

During the Reagan and Bush tax cuts we saw an initial upswing in the economic numbers
due the feel good affect of tax cuts for the rich. They increased spending on the military and this was followed by a recession and massive increase in the national debt. Reagan then raised taxes but the debt kept raising because he wouldn't curb spending GHW Bush promised no new taxes but had to raise them after another recession and run away debt ate up the economy.

Clinton got taxes increased and cut spending and we had the longest sustained growth in our history at the time and only a small recession at the end of his 2nd term was his only economic blemish.

GW Bush got massive tax cuts and took a large budget surplus which Clinton passed to him and created a large budget deficit in his first year. We were then off to the races as the National debt increased more under him than any US President and threw us into one of the worse recession in our history.

Obama allowed Bush's tax cut to expire and his Presidency was the only one which saw sustained growth throughout. The debt is most likely the reason that recovery was slow but the slow recovery was also most likely the reason for the lack of a recession. President Trump was given a strong economy with record Wall St. highs.

Before the Tax cut bill, nothing that Trump had done had much effect on the economy. The record highs on Wall St. which were a continuation of Obama's works, were a bump fueled by the hope of this tax cut plan BUT it will take time for this to help the poor and middle class workers. The National debt will explode, if history repeats itself, and a recession will follow.

 

[Calminian]

More fallout from the tax cuts.... for dems.


BROKE=> DNC Closes November Millions in Debt, Lowest Fundraising in 10 Years

 

[Calminian]

And on a good note:


TRUMP EFFECT: Apple Looking To Bring $252 Billion In Foreign Cash Back To USA After Landmark Tax Bill

 

[Calminian]

...During the Reagan and Bush tax cuts we saw an initial upswing in the economic numbers due the feel good affect of tax cuts for the rich. They increased spending on the military and this was followed by a recession and massive increase in the national debt. Reagan then raised taxes but the debt kept raising because he wouldn't curb spending GHW Bush promised no new taxes but had to raise them after another recession and run away debt ate up the economy....

LOL! Total revisionist history. What YD failed to tell you was that tax revenue went up dramatically after his tax cuts. It doubled! Think about that. Regain dropped the rate from 70% to 29% and ending up doubling tax revenue. It was amazing.

What Mr. Dawg also left out was the fact that his party, the democrats, were in charge of congress at that time. It was they who drove up spending way beyond the revenue increase. Reagan wanted a strong military, and the dems took advantage of it, taking spending way up. We can only thank God Reagan increased tax revenue through tax cuts, or the dems would have crushed us with their spending in the 80s. We had a mild increase in the debt, and the economy continued to boom. Contrast that with what happened to the debt when Obama and the dems were in charge. They actually raised the debt more than any other government in history.

 

[Yarddog]

LOL! Total revisionist history. The saying about ly'n dogs come to mind. What YD failed to tell you was that tax revenue went up dramatically after his tax cuts. It doubled! Think about that. Regain dropped the rate from 70% to 29% and ending up doubling tax revenue. It was amazing.

ROTFL, what you fail to understand that even though tax revenue "nearly" double under Reagan, it was the smallest amount of increase since the Great Depression. Talk about revisionist history. LOL Revenues also more than doubled under Clinton.

The key is economic growth as far as revenue goes. Revenues increase during growth and decrease during recessions.

Investments also play a big part. Investments fell after the Daddy Bush tax increase of '90 but recovered at the end of his term but investment soared after the Clinton increase. They also fell steeply after the Baby Bush tax cuts of 2001 and took four years to recover for and then tanked a couple of years later during the Great Recession.e

Some tout Bush's tax cut as an economic stimulus but they fail to explain that this was more due to the Housing Bubble as banks were lending money freely and housing starts grew. Of course we should all know what followed when that caved in.

The National Debt plays a factor as well. The debt fell from Truman all the way through Cater but rose under Reagan all the way to the amount during Eisenhower's 1st term. It fell under Clinton's tax increase and spending cuts and then rose again under Bush to a level higher than Reagan's.

Somewhere along the way we have to realize that things may collapse unless we can get control of the National debt. Spending has to fall below revenues and as long as we spend more money on defense than most of the free world combined, that won't happen.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Just about a done deal. Have to admit, I was doubtful at times. Props to Trump and Congress. Hafta give up for McConnell and Ryan. Senate Republicans were totally united. No VP tie breaker necessary.

Just one little trip back to the house, and onto Trump's desk.

Can't wait for the phony "tax cuts for the rich" arguments that are sure to come—one of the biggest political lies of the 21st century. But we'll take those as the come.

Senate Passes Historic Tax Cuts and Jobs Act 51-48

The Senate passed the historic Tax Cuts and Jobs Act on Tuesday, sending the bill to the House, and soon to President Donald Trump to sign.


BREAKING: Senate Passes Trump Tax Bill 51-48 in Midnight Showdown
December 19, 2017, 11:50 pm by Cristina Laila


POTUS Trump Fires Off Midnight Celebratory Tweet After Senate Passes GOP Tax Bill – Gloats “Terrible” Obamacare Mandate Repealed
December 20, 2017, 12:42 am by Cristina Laila

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
The United States Senate just passed the biggest in history Tax Cut and Reform Bill. Terrible Individual Mandate (ObamaCare)Repealed. Goes to the House tomorrow morning for final vote. If approved, there will be a News Conference at The White House at approximately 1:00 P.M.

10:09 PM - 19 Dec 2017​

Don't worry. Money will "trickle" down from richest people. Trump family will save hundreds of millions. I am sure he will help less fortunate with that extra dollars.

How Donald Trump Shifted Kids-Cancer Charity Money Into His Coffers

Unless less fortunate is child with Cancer of course. These children need to learn self reliance and not always be looking for handout. Good for Trump taking their money. It will build some character.

 

[brinny]

LOL!

LOVE it!!!!!!

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

LOL!

LOVE it!!!!!!

Me too!

It is funny watching people cheering to give more of their money to the very richest in society. It is like a Monty Python sketch but in real life. Trump family alone will save hundreds of millions. Very funny stuff. Trump must be saying to himself: "This is even better than the scam I ran at Trump University! It's all legal!"

Trump settles fraud case against Trump University for $25M
Donald Trump settles fraud lawsuits relating to Trump University