Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[Dan the deacon]

As long as we understand that we are not communicating to compete (which I believe is the same for you) we can continue with our fellowship in the Word.

Concerning Ananias and Sapphira, I would be hard-pressed to conceive they were born again, considering they lied to the Author of rebirth (Spirit of God).

Does God's word not indicate they were part of the Church? This is something written in the Word of God. Do you really believe God inspiring this to be penned is leaving your assumption out? If God's word says they were of the Church, I'll believe it means just what it says.
So do you believe He rewarded their lies with heaven or are you gonna say belonging to the Church means nothing in God's word?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you suppose I should accept everything everybody tells me about God that I feel is incorrect? Do YOU accept what I say?
No. So what's the difference? YOU have the truth and I don't?

The truth is the Word of God. Some of which you simply don't believe, based on your posts.

I've said many times that the writers of the N.T. would have been much more careful in their wording if they knew we'd come up with such silly ideas in our time.

What Jesus said in John 10:28 was as clear as could be. There is nothing difficult in that verse. Jesus was speaking about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

The CAUSE of having (possessing eternal life) is Jesus Himself, proven by "I give them eternal life".

The EFFECT of having (possessing eternal life) is never perishing, proven by "and they shall never, no, not ever, perish".

If you disagree, please prove your disagreement. But what He said was very clear.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"I showed the definition of a "pledge". It's a solemn promise.

And I asked you if God ever reneges on any of His promises.

Do you have an answer?"

The answer is no.

Well, then, why do you persist in thinking that a sealed believer can become unsealed then? Eph 1:14 is very clear. The sealing ministry of the Spirit is a pledge or guarantee or solemn promise of our inheritance for the day of redemption.

Notice Paul didn't say anything about the day of wrath here.

2 Timothy 2:13
Yes, FG, this is what 2 Timothy means,,,not what YOU think it means. God remains faithful to HIMSELF because He cannot lie.

He does NOT remain faithful to YOU if you are not faithful to Him. Read also 2 Timothy 2:12

Good grief. v.12 says NOTHING of what you opine. It is speaking about those who endure (in the faith) will reign with Christ. This is a reward.

And those who deny Him (that means not endure in the faith) will be denied.
So, denied what, exactly? The right to reign with Him.

You want to just enter heaven, but not reign with Christ?

Does the bible contradict itself? No.

Of course not. Which is why there can't be ANY verses that teach loss of salvation, because Jesus taught eternal security in John 10:28 as plain as day!!

So does He deny us or does He remain faithful even if we're faithless? It's simple if you're willing to accept the truth.

I notice you actually didn't lay out your cards and specify your view. Afraid to?

Because of v.13, and the PERMANENT sealing with the Spirit, God CANNOT deny entrance to heaven for any believer. Because they are PERMANENTLY sealed with the Holy Spirit. If He sends even 1 believer to hell for any reason, Eph 1:14 would be a lie.

Why don't you grasp this?

What is the reward?

The privilege of reigning with Christ, the King of kings, and Lord of lords.

Colossians 3:24-25
24knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve. 25For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.


What was Paul preaching for? Rewards? No!

Sure. Not in Col 3, but he sure was, clearly, in 2 Tim 2:12.

Jesus said on different occasions that it is those who endure to the end who will be saved.

Please check the context for those occasions. If one must endure to be saved, then one is saved by one's own effort, and NOT by grace, which would violate Eph 2:8,9.

Why don't you grasp that?

[/QUOTE]Mathew 10:22
22“You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved."[/QUOTE]
Check the context.

Hebrews 3:6

6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Did you bother to check out the Greek word for "hold fast"? It means to possess.

What the verse isn't saying is that one needs to endure to the end to be saved, as you opine.

Notice the comparison: Christ WAS faithful as a Son, and we are faithful as sons, IF we possess OUR CONFIDENCE AND BOAST OF OUR HOPE FIRM.

It seems you have a penchant for misreading a whole lot of Scripture.

There are so many verses that I rarely use the same ones over and over --- as you seem to do with John 10.

I don't need any other verses. John 10:28 is THE MOST CLEAR VERSE in the Bible about eternal security.

And NONE of the verses you (or any other Arminian) share say anything about losing salvation.

What thing doesn't Ephesians 1:14 permit?

Your view of becoming unsealed and therefore unsaved.

But that's not what JESUS said..

Yes He did.

HE said that they FELL AWAY.

What in the world do you think He was referring to? Their believing, of course.

Do you know what that means?

I sure do, unlike yourself.

If parts of something fall away, they break off and drop to theground:

On the bathroom ceiling, some piecesof plaster had fallen away.
The rear sections of the rocket fellaway.
source: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fall-away

As you can see, fall away means to be SEPARATED from an object..

By believing "for a while", they ceased to believe, which separated them from their faith.

as when we FALL AWAY from our faith, we are separated from the OBJECT OF OUR FAITH,,,which is Christ.

Well, then, now we know, Eph 1:14 is a lie and not to be believed.

Thanks for your astute in helping everyone to understand that there are verses in the Bible NOT to be believed.

Feel better now?

Everyone is wrong, I guess.
Except you.

What nonsense. Maybe counting isn't your forte. There are many posters who believe exactly the same as I do.

But I know your comment was just for snark.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you BELIEVE you have ETERNAL LIFE.
If you DO NOT BELIEVE, you DO NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

This is what you PERSIST in misunderstanding, or just simply resisting the truth.

WHEN one believes, they are PERMANENTLY sealed with the Spirit, as God's own possession (Eph 1:14), and ARE GIVEN eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13), and therefore SHALL NEVER PERISH.

But you don't believe that.

This is one of God's conditions...
You must believe to have eternal life.
If you stop believing...you stop having eternal life.
If you stop living as He wants you to...
You stop having eternal life.

I'm so tired of this really stupid claim. No offense.

But it is stupid because there are NO verses that even come close to saying that.

The clear verses say the exact opposite, but you refuse to believe.

This is not to scare anyone, as YOU think is the case...
It's to warn them against persons such as yourself who will lead many to become lost because of your incorrect doctrine.

Go ahead and tell Jesus that His teaching in John 10:28 (which you cannot refute, so you just ignore) "will lead many to become lost".

I can't think of anything more stupid than that idea.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You worry too much about my English and not enough about your salvation and the salvation of others.

Why should I worry about my salvation? It was FINALIZED when I believed in Jesus Christ for my salvation. It's not in any danger. You know why? (well, of course you don't know why) It's because He gave me eternal life and therefore, I shall never perish.

Anyone with common sense and is reading along will understand that we are saved for as long as we wish to be and for as long as we trust in Jesus and believe in Him.

Said the person who can't find any verse that backs up her opinions.

Answer this:
Did any covenant ever abolish the preceding one?

No. And totally irrelevant. It's apparent that you have no clue what any of the covenants were for. All of them are specific. But you wouldn't know that, huh.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No FG.
You have no desire to know the truth.

Ah, more snark, I see. Well, at least you're good as something. But it doesn't complement those who claim to be Christians.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"No, there is ony 1 condition to be met for salvation.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Please believe the red words.

Acts 16-
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Please believe the Bible."

I do FG.

No you don't, because you believe there are conditions (plural) to be met for salvation, including works, deeds, enduring, etc.

Please tell me what the word BELIEVE means...
in the Greek.
Thanks.

Sure. My pleasure:

NT:4100 pisteuo (pist-yoo'-o); from NT:4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):

Now, do you understand what "to entrust" means?

Please explain.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I remember reading an account of a couple belonging to the Church in the book of Acts. They lied about their finances. It does not appear they kept thier salvation.

Where does it "not appear" that they kept their salvation?

What they lost was their physical lives. There was NO comment about their spiritual lives.

btw, are you aware that IF either person did end in hell, then what Jesus said in John 10:28 would be LYING?

He said those He gives eternal life (believers) shall never perish.

How comfortable with that are you?

You're proposing that believers can perish. In total opposition to what the Savior said.

 

[WordSword]

Does God's word not indicate they were part of the Church?

Not everyone among them that were in the church believed, only the "multitude of them that believed" were truly in the church (vs 30). This also applies to them who "were all filled with the Holy Ghost" (vs 31), who are described as being of "one heart and of one soul," which eliminates them because their heart was shown not to be one with the church, because they did not consider as the others did, "that nothing of the things which he possessed was his own," because they were of a different heart concerning this.

Also, in my opinion it doesn't make sense to thing that one who was just "filled with the Holy Ghost" would desire to lie to Him.

 

[Dan the deacon]

This is what you PERSIST in misunderstanding, or just simply resisting the truth.

WHEN one believes, they are PERMANENTLY sealed with the Spirit, as God's own possession (Eph 1:14), and ARE GIVEN eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13), and therefore SHALL NEVER PERISH.

But you don't believe that.


I'm so tired of this really stupid claim. No offense.

But it is stupid because there are NO verses that even come close to saying that.

The clear verses say the exact opposite, but you refuse to believe.


Go ahead and tell Jesus that His teaching in John 10:28 (which you cannot refute, so you just ignore) "will lead many to become lost".

I can't think of anything more stupid than that idea.

Really? If you deny Christ, what does scripture say Christ does?

 

[Dan the deacon]

Not everyone among them that were in the church believed, only the "multitude of them that believed" were truly in the church (vs 30). This also applies to them who "were all filled with the Holy Ghost" (vs 31), who are described as being of "one heart and of one soul," which eliminates them because their heart was shown not to be one with the church, because they did not consider as the others did, "that nothing of the things which he possessed was his own," because they were of a different heart concerning this.

Also, in my opinion it doesn't make sense to thing that one who was just "filled with the Holy Ghost" would desire to lie to Him.

Sorry, if you do not believe God would not consider you a part of the Church. These two He did until they lied.

 

[Dan the deacon]

There's no need to dance around these passages. Jesus stated plainly that some believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Discussion over. Jesus has the final word.

Not around this thread. I am sure someone will attempt to change the meaning of those verses to match the theology they seem to love more than they love Christ.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The truth is the Word of God. Some of which you simply don't believe, based on your posts.


What Jesus said in John 10:28 was as clear as could be. There is nothing difficult in that verse. Jesus was speaking about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

The CAUSE of having (possessing eternal life) is Jesus Himself, proven by "I give them eternal life".

The EFFECT of having (possessing eternal life) is never perishing, proven by "and they shall never, no, not ever, perish".

If you disagree, please prove your disagreement. But what He said was very clear.

I DO believe I have.
You just don't accept it.
And I've used many verses...
You otoh.....

 

[GodsGrace101]

Not around this thread. I am sure someone will attempt to change the meaning of those verses to match the theology they seem to love more than they love Christ.

Amen to that.
But it does seem to happen on many threads.
Not just this one.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I said:ng isn't your forte. There are many posters who believe exactly the same as I do.

But I know your comment was just for snark.

Ah, more snark, I see. Well, at least you're good as something. But it doesn't complement those who claim to be Christians.

I'M snarky?
You're funny.
Now, if you were as good looking as OSAS101, you coulda maybe been a catch for some lucky girl.

I leave you to the others.
Till next time,,,

 

[Gr8Grace]

Kings would put a seal on an order of theirs. So, could the order be rescinded? Of course!

Gods seal can be rescinded?

John 6:27~~New American Standard Bible
"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."

I find it very disconcerting that a Christian believes that the Father will perhaps rescind the Son's seal.

 

[Ron Gurley]

1 John 5:16-18 (NASB)
15 If anyone sees his brother committing a (FORGIVABLE) sin not leading to death (spiritual separation) ,
he shall ask and God will for him give life (FORGIVENESS) to those who commit sin not leading to death.
There is a sin leading to death; (SEE: Luke 12:10 (NASB)..The "un-forgivable sin")
I do not say that he should make request for this.
17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
We know that no one who is born of (abides in) God sins;
but He who was born of God keeps him (from temptation), and the evil one does not touch him

1 John 1:5-10...God Is Light...God forgives the sin of believers
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, (believers) that
God is Light, and
in Him there is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with Him and yet walk in the darkness,
we lie and do not practice the truth;
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light,
we have FELLOWSHIP with one another, and
the blood of Jesus His Son CLEANSES us from all sin.
>>>If we say that we have no sin,
we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.<<<
If we CONFESS our sins, (agree with God about)
He is faithful and righteous to FORGIVE us our sins AND
to CLEANSE us from all unrighteousness.
>>>If we say that we have NOT sinned,
we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

 

[Ron Gurley]

John 20:20-23
The (11) disciples then rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21 So Jesus said to them again,
“Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them,
“Receive (God) the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them;
if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

When the apostles died, their temporary sign gift of forgiveness of sins died.

 

[Gr8Grace]

What nonsense. Maybe counting isn't your forte. There are many posters who believe exactly the same as I do.

Count me as one. I am a baby in bible doctrine, and your a treasure trove of doctrine.

Honestly, can't wait to shake your hand and give you a Bro hug in the eternal state......That's if I make it!

 

[JLB777]

As long as we understand that we are not communicating to compete (which I believe is the same for you) we can continue with our fellowship in the Word.

Concerning Ananias and Sapphira, I would be hard-pressed to conceive they were born again, considering they lied to the Author of rebirth (Spirit of God).

Why bother then selling and giving a portion of the money to the Apostles in the first place if they weren’t born again.



JLB