Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[Gr8Grace]

Your God's children, He loves you: you won't surely die.

Amen! John 10:28

 

[JLB777]

Thank God we do have eternal security! Loss of salvation is the EPITOME of hating and MURDERING brothers and sisters in Christ.

I seriously would not want to be in the shoes of those who CONTINUALLY try to find any way under the sun to toss other believers under the bus.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Born again Christians who do obey His commandments, do not love God, because they have shown hatred for His children.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


These are questions that I have asked to to answer, if your honest.

• If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

• If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

• If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20



2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



Teaching your brother and sisters that you have "eternal security" and can never die, not matter how you live your life, is not love.


Can a born again Christian live their life not keeping His commandments, and still have eternal life?


Yes?
No?




JLB

 

[Dan the deacon]

I find these arguements silly. People believing they are saved before the judgement is not biblical. What we are while here on earth is "being saved", not already saved. That (saved), happens at our judgement. If we remain of the Church we will be saved, if we do not we will not.

 

[Gr8Grace]

• If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

• If we try to steal the confidence of eternal security from a brother it is hate. And not to mention a serious impugning of the character and nature of the Lord Jesus Christ and His word.

• If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

• Actually if we commit adultery with Christ and Go back to our old husband of 'good' works and self righteousness it is hatred of His grace and infidelity with our Lord and Savior.

So thank God we have eternal security! John 10:28. And JLB, is this all you have? Your old copy and paste stuff? It's a pain in the butt to quote.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I find these arguements silly. People believing they are saved before the judgement is not biblical. What we are while here on earth is "being saved", not already saved. That (saved), happens at our judgement. If we remain of the Church we will be saved, if we do not we will not.

While eternal security and salvation are closely intertwined. If one doesn't even have salvation figured out, I could see how this argument is silly.

John 3:16

Acts 16:31

1 John 5:13~~New American Standard Bible
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 Pet 1:23~~New American Standard Bible
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

2 Cor 5:17~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

 

[JLB777]

• If we try to steal the confidence of eternal security from a brother it is hate. And not to mention a serious impugning of the character and nature of the Lord Jesus Christ and His word.

• Actually if we commit adultery with Christ and Go back to our old husband of 'good' works and self righteousness it is hatred of His grace and infidelity with our Lord and Savior.

So thank God we have eternal security! John 10:28. And JLB, is this all you have? Your old copy and paste stuff? It's a pain in the butt to quote.

More opinion and dodging the actual questions.

It is obvious to all that you must twist and redefine what is posted to hide in the darkness of your man made theology.

You can't even answer a simple question honestly. LOL





These are questions that I have asked to to answer, if your honest.

1. If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?
2. If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?
3. If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20



2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

Here we have the biblical definition of love.



JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

More opinion and dodging the actual questions.

It is obvious to all that you must twist and redefine what is posted to hide in the darkness of your man made theology.

You can't even answer a simple question honestly. LOL

4 or 5 years ago I went through them in detail. It's a broken record. To be honest, I don't really want to go through it all again. And freegrace, bless his tenacity, can expose you a lot quicker and better than I can.

I will just poke and prod when I feel up to it.

 

[JLB777]

4 or 5 years ago I went through them in detail. It's a broken record. To be honest, I don't really want to go through it all again. And freegrace, bless his tenacity, can expose you a lot quicker and better than I can.

I will just poke and prod when I feel up to it.

No scriptures. Just excuses.


This is the sum of your Bible Theology.


Man Made. Made promoted.


It is obvious to all that you must twist and redefine what is posted to hide in the darkness of your man made theology.

This is not a game. This is about people's salvation.


You obviously hate the truth.


These are questions that I have asked to to answer, if your honest.

1. If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?
2. If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?
3. If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20



2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

Here we have the biblical definition of love.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

OSAS is a theology of hate.

Hm. In reality, the theology of loss of salvation is the one of hate. God hating those children of His who don't measure up. So he kills them eternally.

Give me a break. I know you can do better than that.

Jesus taught LOve.

He sure did. Which is why He said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH.

The doctrine of Christ is about what love is.

The doctrine of eternal security is seen in Romans 8:38,39. Not even the 'future' can separate one from the love of Christ. That means ANYTHING that may happen in the future.

Most Christians think they can live the way they want and disobey obey Jesus Christ as Lord, and still inherit eternal life.

You're misunderstanding what "inheriting eternal life" refers to. As your statement stands, it is correct. But you misunderstand the meaning.

It isn't about entering heaven, it's about actually "sharing in Christ's glory" per Rom 8:17b and reigning with Christ 2 Tim 2:12a based on faithfulness and obedience.

Those believers who do "live the wasy they want" and "disobey Jesus as Lord" will NOT INHERIT eternal life. That means they WON'T share in Christ's glory or reign with Christ. Can you imagine spending ETERNITY seeing others sharing in Christ's glory and reigning with Christ while you stand on the sidelines for ETERNITY?

Such believers will be MIGHTY GLAD they are IN heaven, but they'll be quite aware of LOSING OUT on sharing in Christ's glory, which is reigning with Christ.

People who hate will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Correct.

Those who obey His commandments are those who love.

Correct.

Those who come to be in Christ by believing must remain in Christ or be cast into the fire and burned.

Faulty premise. All who have believed IN Christ are sealed IN HIM by the Holy Spirit, who is a GUARANTEE of their inheritance on the day of redemption as God's own possession. That's eternal security.

It's really comes down to believing.

Correct. Those who believe shall never perish because Jesus gives them eternal life and SAID they shall never perish.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

It should be clear to the spiritually discerning believer that this verse cannot in any way be about maintaining one's own salvation. It IS about fruit production, which is a choice, just as "abiding in Him" is a choice.

But no one has a choice about whether they maintain or lose salvation.

Jesus' point in John 15 is about fruit production, which requires the believer to be IN fellowship with Him.

Those believers who grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess5:19) the Spirit are OUT OF fellowship and cannot bear fruit.

If a person believes for a while, then no longer believes, is no longer a believer.

We call such a one an apostate. But because they were given eternal life back WHEN they believed and were SEALED IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, they are STILL SAVED.

It's one thing to be in Christ, it's another to remain in Christ.

Those with spiritual discernment understand this is about whether one is IN fellowship or OUT of fellowship.

Just as no human can be unborn physically, no believer can be unborn spiritually.

We must obey His word, His teaching, His doctrine as Lord if we are to remain in Christ.

In fact, that's the ONLY WAY to remain in Him.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

All about fellowship, a doctrine that seems to be in very short supply among the Arminnians.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Go back to ch 1 and count the times John mentions "fellowship". That's the subject of the epistle.

His commandments are about loving God by loving His people.

Yes they are. But that isn't about how to be saved.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

A lot of believers do not have the truth in them. For example, believing that salvation can be lost. Or a saved person ending up in hell.

5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5

Obedience is an evidence of being saved. Not the means, as you wrongly assume.

If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?
If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?
If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

hate x 3

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20

I'll give an example. How can you claim to love God or His Son Jesus when you claim that a saved person (possesser of eternal life) CAN perish when Jesus specificaly said they shall NEVER PERISH?

See what I mean?

You need to re-think your faulty position.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2

They are not burdensome, for sure. But neither of these verses supports your faulty claims.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

No one loses salvation by being disobedient.

Every believer who is disobedient will be painfully disciplined by God. Heb 12:11

IOW, no one "gets away" with anything, as the Arminian frequently assumes regarding the truth of eternal security.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

The spiritually discerning believer (2 Tim 2:15) knows that Paul meant that such a believer is not living in the sphere of eternal life.

IOW, he is not living as a believer.

He couldn't be meaning that anyone can lose eternal life, because he wrote that eternal life is a free gift of God in Rom 6:23 and that the gifts of God are irrevocable in Rom 11:29.

One doesn't have to be a rocket sciontist to "do the math" and realize that eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable.

BTW, this is what I posted and you ignored in your response:

"John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse, Jesus gives the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

The CAUSE of possessing eternal life is found in the red words "I give them eternal life".

The EFFECT of possessing eternal life is found in the blue words "and they shall never perish".

Also note that the 2 colored phrases are separated by "and", which is a connecting link between the 2 phrases.

Also note that there are no conditions listed or noted for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to never perish."

Why haven't you refuted my points?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I find these arguements silly. People believing they are saved before the judgement is not biblical.

That claim is silly.

I offer for your reading pleasure what the Bible says:
John 3:36 - 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

How many more verses will it take to convince you that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. It isn't a future promise. It's a PRESENT TENSE possession.

What we are while here on earth is "being saved", not already saved. That (saved), happens at our judgement. If we remain of the Church we will be saved, if we do not we will not.

Please provide the evidence from Scripture that one must "remain of the Church" in order to be saved?

 

[FreeGrace2]

More opinion and dodging the actual questions.

Said the master of opinion and dodgeball.

lol

 

[JLB777]

No one loses salvation by being disobedient.

Pure Heresy.

That’s the LIE of the serpent.

You will surely not die.

Go ahead Eve, you can disobey God and because you are His child you won’t perish.


Thanks for exposing the source of your doctrine.


11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:11


Now is the time for you to repent of your Heresy before you stand before and you do not inherit the kingdom because you are promoting heresies.


19 Now adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Hm. In reality, the theology of loss of salvation is the one of hate. God hating those children of His who don't measure up. So he kills them eternally.

Give me a break. I know you can do better than that.


He sure did. Which is why He said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH.


The doctrine of eternal security is seen in Romans 8:38,39. Not even the 'future' can separate one from the love of Christ. That means ANYTHING that may happen in the future.


You're misunderstanding what "inheriting eternal life" refers to. As your statement stands, it is correct. But you misunderstand the meaning.

It isn't about entering heaven, it's about actually "sharing in Christ's glory" per Rom 8:17b and reigning with Christ 2 Tim 2:12a based on faithfulness and obedience.

Those believers who do "live the wasy they want" and "disobey Jesus as Lord" will NOT INHERIT eternal life. That means they WON'T share in Christ's glory or reign with Christ. Can you imagine spending ETERNITY seeing others sharing in Christ's glory and reigning with Christ while you stand on the sidelines for ETERNITY?

Such believers will be MIGHTY GLAD they are IN heaven, but they'll be quite aware of LOSING OUT on sharing in Christ's glory, which is reigning with Christ.


Correct.


Correct.


Faulty premise. All who have believed IN Christ are sealed IN HIM by the Holy Spirit, who is a GUARANTEE of their inheritance on the day of redemption as God's own possession. That's eternal security.


Correct. Those who believe shall never perish because Jesus gives them eternal life and SAID they shall never perish.


It should be clear to the spiritually discerning believer that this verse cannot in any way be about maintaining one's own salvation. It IS about fruit production, which is a choice, just as "abiding in Him" is a choice.

But no one has a choice about whether they maintain or lose salvation.

Jesus' point in John 15 is about fruit production, which requires the believer to be IN fellowship with Him.

Those believers who grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess5:19) the Spirit are OUT OF fellowship and cannot bear fruit.


We call such a one an apostate. But because they were given eternal life back WHEN they believed and were SEALED IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, they are STILL SAVED.


Those with spiritual discernment understand this is about whether one is IN fellowship or OUT of fellowship.

Just as no human can be unborn physically, no believer can be unborn spiritually.


In fact, that's the ONLY WAY to remain in Him.


All about fellowship, a doctrine that seems to be in very short supply among the Arminnians.


Go back to ch 1 and count the times John mentions "fellowship". That's the subject of the epistle.


Yes they are. But that isn't about how to be saved.


A lot of believers do not have the truth in them. For example, believing that salvation can be lost. Or a saved person ending up in hell.


Obedience is an evidence of being saved. Not the means, as you wrongly assume.


hate x 3


I'll give an example. How can you claim to love God or His Son Jesus when you claim that a saved person (possesser of eternal life) CAN perish when Jesus specificaly said they shall NEVER PERISH?

See what I mean?

You need to re-think your faulty position.


They are not burdensome, for sure. But neither of these verses supports your faulty claims.


No one loses salvation by being disobedient.

Every believer who is disobedient will be painfully disciplined by God. Heb 12:11

IOW, no one "gets away" with anything, as the Arminian frequently assumes regarding the truth of eternal security.


The spiritually discerning believer (2 Tim 2:15) knows that Paul meant that such a believer is not living in the sphere of eternal life.

IOW, he is not living as a believer.

He couldn't be meaning that anyone can lose eternal life, because he wrote that eternal life is a free gift of God in Rom 6:23 and that the gifts of God are irrevocable in Rom 11:29.

One doesn't have to be a rocket sciontist to "do the math" and realize that eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable.

BTW, this is what I posted and you ignored in your response:

"John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse, Jesus gives the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

The CAUSE of possessing eternal life is found in the red words "I give them eternal life".

The EFFECT of possessing eternal life is found in the blue words "and they shall never perish".

Also note that the 2 colored phrases are separated by "and", which is a connecting link between the 2 phrases.

Also note that there are no conditions listed or noted for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to never perish."

Why haven't you refuted my points?

Not one single scripture that addresses my post or the scriptures I presented.




These are questions that I have asked to to answer, if your honest.

1. If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?
2. If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?
3. If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20



2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

Here we have the biblical definition of love.



JLB

 

[WordSword]

I find these arguements silly. People believing they are saved before the judgement is not biblical. What we are while here on earth is "being saved", not already saved. That (saved), happens at our judgement. If we remain of the Church we will be saved, if we do not we will not.

My friend Dan, faith is existent in this life only (2 Cor 5:7) and will pass away forever in the next life. This answers to the passage "He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already" (John 3:18).

The "Judgement" will not determine who is saved, but identifies who was saved! If we leave this life apart from Christ's expiation for our sin we will be judged guilty. If we leave this life within Christ's expiation for our sin we will be judged sinless.

 

[JakeyB123]

I said this:
"
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse, Jesus gives the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life"

There is nothing to repent of here. I explained what Jesus was teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of HAVING eternal life.

If you disagree, then please address the red and blue phrases are talking about.

And I'm not making a doctrine from 1 verse. I AM using the best single verse on eternal security and explained WHY it teaches eternal security.


None of this is relevant to what Jesus said in v.28. And v.27 is descriptive about who His sheep are. v.28 is about what Jesus GIVES to His sheep.

So there is nothing in v.27 that can be linked as a conditional clause to v.28.


That's my current state.


No, I never said that. I will allow that there are people that quote verses that seem TO THEM that salvation can be lost.


If you don't think Jesus was making clear the fact of eternal security, then please follow my lead and explain v.28 as to what Jesus was really talking about.


How does "sin" enter this discussion about what Jesus was teaching?

It seems your opinion is that a hardened heart and flesh that desires sin leads to the teaching of eternal security.

Do you believe that every person to whom Jesus Christ gives eternal life shall never perish, or do you believe that some of them WILL perish?

Jesus lost Judas for the sake of fulfilling scripture. John 17:12...
You have to compare the context, your taking v28 and saying "well it says this??" Sure it does, but the verse before says those who are his sheep FOLLOW him

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"No one loses salvation by being disobedient"

Pure Heresy.

I'll tell you what pure heresy is. Claiming that salvation can be lost.

You've yet to give ANY verse that tells us that salvation can be lost.

That’s the LIE of the serpent.

Yes, claiming that salvation can be lost IS the LIE of the devil.

Thanks for exposing the source of your doctrine.

You mean, of course, Jesus Christ, who said those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28, right? So yes, that's the source of the doctrine of eternal security.

11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:11

Directly applies to those who claim that salvation can be lost, IN SPITE of what Jesus said so clearly in John 10:28 and no one can refute.

Now is the time for you to repent of your Heresy before you stand before and you do not inherit the kingdom because you are promoting heresies.

Said the guy who doesn't even understand what "not inherit the kingdom" means.

19 Now adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 JLB

I've asked you many times, and you've so far avoided answering this question, but, just for the benefit of those who read this thread, please tell me where the Bible says that Jesus Christ didn't die for any of the sins listed in Gal 5.

Reality is that Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Hebrews 9-10.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Not one single scripture that addresses my post or the scriptures I presented.

Why would I address verses that don't come close to supporting your claims?

These are questions that I have asked to to answer, if your honest.

1. If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?
2. If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?
3. If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?

I did answer them. Don't you read my responses to your posts?

I said:
"hate x 3"

Did you notice that you asked 3 questions about love vs hate? Maybe you just don't understand how "hate x 3" answers ALL of your questions.

THen I followed my answers to your 3 questions with thi question:
"I'll give an example. How can you claim to love God or His Son Jesus when you claim that a saved person (possesser of eternal life) CAN perish when Jesus specificaly said they shall NEVER PERISH?"

Please answer this very pertinent question.

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20

Then I ended my post with this:

"BTW, this is what I posted and you ignored in your response:

"John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse, Jesus gives the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

The CAUSE of possessing eternal life is found in the red words "I give them eternal life".

The EFFECT of possessing eternal life is found in the blue words "and they shall never perish".

Also note that the 2 colored phrases are separated by "and", which is a connecting link between the 2 phrases.

Also note that there are no conditions listed or noted for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to never perish."

Why haven't you refuted my points?"

My conclusion is that you are unable to refute my points about John 10:28.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have to compare the context, your taking v28 and saying "well it says this??" Sure it does, but the verse before says those who are his sheep FOLLOW him

You've ignored all of my points.

I said this:

"I said this:
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse, Jesus gives the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life"

There is nothing to repent of here. I explained what Jesus was teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of HAVING eternal life.

If you disagree, then please address the red and blue phrases are talking about.

And I'm not making a doctrine from 1 verse. I AM using the best single verse on eternal security and explained WHY it teaches eternal security.


None of this is relevant to what Jesus said in v.28. And v.27 is descriptive about who His sheep are. v.28 is about what Jesus GIVES to His sheep.

So there is nothing in v.27 that can be linked as a conditional clause to v.28."

 

[Gr8Grace]

You've ignored all of my points.

I said this:

"I said this:
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse, Jesus gives the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life"

There is nothing to repent of here. I explained what Jesus was teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of HAVING eternal life.

If you disagree, then please address the red and blue phrases are talking about.

And I'm not making a doctrine from 1 verse. I AM using the best single verse on eternal security and explained WHY it teaches eternal security.


None of this is relevant to what Jesus said in v.28. And v.27 is descriptive about who His sheep are. v.28 is about what Jesus GIVES to His sheep.

So there is nothing in v.27 that can be linked as a conditional clause to v.28."

It really comes down to a whole bunch of people who don't believe they are His sheep. Anybody who contends that salvation can be lost..................Logically cannot say they are one of His sheep at this time.

His sheep have eternal life and can never perish. I am one of His. I can never perish.

John 10:28...anyone who thinks that they may perish, should make a absolute argument on how they are not one of His sheep at this time. Because His sheep NEVER perish.

 

[Gr8Grace]

My friend Dan, faith is existent in this life only (2 Cor 5:7) and will pass away forever in the next life. This answers to the passage "He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already" (John 3:18).

The "Judgement" will not determine who is saved, but identifies who was saved! If we leave this life apart from Christ's expiation for our sin we will be judged guilty. If we leave this life within Christ's expiation for our sin we will be judged sinless.

I probably give you fits. But it is because I respect you, and your OHHHHH so close.

Everybody is judged sinless. Christ paid for ALL sin. If we look at the judgement verses closely.....we see unbelievers are judged according to their DEEDS/WORKS and not their sins. Unbelief brings judgement, but they are judged according to their self-righteous " I was good enough" DEEDS.

This is why it is so,so dangerous to live a life of watching ourselves and others to 'see' if others are saved. The tares among us are those who have lifestyle figured out, have His overt ways figured out and have the Christian vocabulary down to a tee.

I read a lot of your stuff NC. and have a tremendous amount of respect for you and pray one day you can see the fact that folks who may be a little rough for us overtly........" they really were saved, but they are not going to reign and be rewarded in His kingdom. Because they failed to be filled and walk in the Spirit."