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YOU also would have to reject what you have believed and been taught! No difference.
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YOU also would have to reject what you have believed and been taught! No difference.We may have to reject what we have believed and been taught. And for some, that is a lifetime of deception. It is a tough pill to swallow.
No FG,What the loss of salvation crowd don't believe is that Jesus' sheep (who have been given eternal life per John 10:28) cannot perish.
They believe that Jesus' sheep, IN DIRECT OPPOSITION to His words, can perish.
I can't believe how silly this claim is.You know GR8, the idea of eternal security was not present when the gospels and letters were written. If it was, the writers would have been much more careful in their wording.
It's been around for as long as God has been communicating with mankind.It's only recently that this idea of eternal security has come about.
Let's take John 10:28, for example:
28 "and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."
Did Jesus ever lie? No. So how do we get eternal security from the above? Because Jesus said that He gives eternal life to THEM and THEY will never perish. This is true of course.
So who are the THEM and the THEY?
Yep. Believers. We know that from John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.HIS SHEEP.
So, now all you've got to do is prove your theory that a sealed IN HIM believer (eph 1:13,14) can be unsealed.Of course, Jesus' sheep will NEVER PERISH! Jesus is the life,,,,if we are IN JESUS we have eternal life, but if we are NOT in Jesus, we do not have eternal life.
Actually, from the MOMENT one believes, they possess eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13) and Jesus said they shall never, no, not ever, perish.We must make sure to be Jesus' sheep at the time of our death or we will not be saved.
John 10:26-20
26“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30“I and the Father are one.”
verse 26: Those who do not believe are not of Jesus' sheep.
It doesn't matter if we don't believe BEFORE being saved or AFTER being saved....if there is no belief, we are NOT one of Jesus' sheep.
I will be waiting (with popcorn) for your proof from Scripture that support your opinions.Verse 27: The saved HEAR Jesus' voice, they KNOW Jesus and they FOLLOW Him. If one abandons God do you suppose they still hear the voice of Jesus?
Verse 28: Jesus gives eternal life to THEM....His sheep.
If a person is NOT one of His sheep, he does not have eternal life.
Verse 29: God has given the saved to Christ by His salvation economy and to those that choose to be saved by following Jesus, through whom salvation comes. Nothing can take a saved person away from God...except that person himself.
Verse 30: Jesus and God share the same nature.
I answered this above in a post to you.Anybody?
Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB
Why do you persist in believing that one of Jesus' sheep can become "NOT one of His sheep"? What Scripture says this? None.No FG,
You're right...Jesus' sheep CANNOT perish.
100% right on this.
We just have to make sure to be Jesus' sheep...
That's all.
Many believers have and will die physically the "sin unto death" (1 John 5:16) for disobedience. The Bible has many examples: 1 Cor 5:5, 10, 11:30, Acts 5.I answered this above in a post to you.
A sheep that wanders away is in a dangerous position and if it does not return to the shepherd, it WILL die.
Well FG, YOU could be one of those that are not exegeting properly since the idea of eternal security wasn't even around in the first century.I said:
"Hi there, GG101.
It amazes me how some are so resistant to knowing what the original language actually says."
Because it's the original language that was inspired. Not any of the many translations.
Irrelevant because we have lexicons to KNOW what the original word means.
Really? Just what the Holy Spirit actually inspired the writers to write.
No, there are many who fail to properly exegete and come up with wildly unbiblical ideas.
From the original languages.
And we have knowledge of what the 1st Century Greek meant.
And I do.
Do you believe what He said about recipients in Johbn 10:28?
So do I.
No. I got rather tired of the ridiculous amount of political correctness on the other site.
Why do YOU persist in believing this cannot happen?Why do you persist in believing that one of Jesus' sheep can become "NOT one of His sheep"? What Scripture says this? None.
Your opinions show that you either don't believe or don't understand Eph 1:13,14.
Which do you think it is?
What do you mean?Many believers have and will die physically the "sin unto death" (1 John 5:16) for disobedience. The Bible has many examples: 1 Cor 5:5, 10, 11:30, Acts 5.
A sheep that wanders away is in danger:
1. Of becoming lost and dying of hunger and thirst.
2. Of falling and getting mortally hurt.
3. Of being killed by a wolf.
If WE become lost, we can die of hunger. Jesus said that HE is the bread of life, without Him we will die of hunger.
John 6:33-35
33“For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”
35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst."
We can fall away from God. When we do, we always get hurt, one way or another. God gave us His commandments to keep us safe.
Mathew 24:10-13
10“At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11“Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. "
We can die because of an unbelieving heart.
Hebrews 3:12-14
12Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
What do you mean?
Those who do not obey will die?
What is the sin unto death? You know?
Not every theologian will state that he's sure what this means.
There are differing opinions.
Absolutely.The death that these scriptures are referring to is a spiritual death. Not a physical death.
I agree 100% with what you've posted...The death that is referred to in the bread of life discourse and pertaining to the wages of sin is a spiritual death. It cannot be a physical death otherwise those who are not written in the book of life should all be dead because God has already foreseen that they will fail. The Greek word used for die is
apothnḗskō which can mean die but can also mean to perish which seems to better fit the situation. Perish can mean to die or to suffer complete ruin or destruction. I think in this case it means to suffer complete ruin or destruction since the lake of fire is eternal suffering.
Some people quickly jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing certain sins that lead them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context:I agree 100% with what you've posted...
What I don't know, and am not sure anybody really knows, is...
What is the sin unto death?
(FreeGrace2 brought it up)
1 John 5:16-17
16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leadingto death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
Matthew 5:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.For a sheep to be lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.
JPT
Yes...it can't be certain sins because we know that we can be forgiven of all sins except one...the sin of blasphemy or denying the Holy Spirit (or attributing to Him the works of the evil one).Some people quickly jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing certain sins that lead them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context:
1 John 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
The practice of sin certainly leads to "spiritual" death (Galatians 5:19-21). Yet in 1 John 3:9, we read - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.Yes...it can't be certain sins because we know that we can be forgiven of all sins except one...the sin of blasphemy or denying the Holy Spirit (or attributing to Him the works of the evil one).
John does speak about sinning, and making a practice of sin. Maybe the sin is the PRACTICE OF SIN...IOW, living a life of sin - which, to my understanding, is different than sinning. Maybe this sin leading to death is the practice of sin? (or a life of sin).
I had to dump a lot of bad theology when I started studying the original language.YOU also would have to reject what you have believed and been taught! No difference.
Back to square one!The practice of sin certainly leads to "spiritual" death (Galatians 5:19-21). Yet in 1 John 3:9, we read - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
I know someone who reads and speaks and taught Koine Greek, which just means simple Greek.I had to dump a lot of bad theology when I started studying the original language.
There are people who want The Truth.
And there are people who want their own 'truth.' Or are just to lazy to check it out for themselves.
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