Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[GodsGrace101]

Actually, it doesn't. Where it occurs is a literary technique called a litotes. You can look it up.

There are NO verses that tell us that anyone's name HAS BEEN, or WILL BE blotted out.

Hi FG
It's amazing to me how much Greek, English grammar, and Literary Technique is necessary before one could understand the Bible!

It sure does take lots of knowledge to know how to twist those scriptures around.

 

[GodsGrace101]

But the names were written in the book of life before creation. The only way that is possible is if God had foreseen the choices we will make in our life from beginning to end. It wouldn’t make sense that He wrote people’s names in the book of life who would fall away. Surely God wouldn’t only see part of our destiny. He would see the entire outcome. God has foreseen our future but we still have the free will to decide our fate. So we are today unfolding what God has already foreseen. The choices we make today, tomorrow, until the end of our life here are shaping what God has foreseen. For example I have the freedom to choose to smash my iPhone right now or I can choose not to. Whatever choice I decide to make is what God has already foreseen before creation. This would explain predestination which the Greek work also means preordained. Meaning we were preselected according to the choices we made that God had foreseen. The book of life is foreseen which means it is complete and cannot be altered. If it complete and cannot be altered then those who are written in the book of life will never be blotted out and can never lose salvation. But it doesn’t mean that the choices we make do not determine our fate. What are your thoughts?

So much talk about the book of Life.
Could you tell me where it states the names were written before the beginning?

It does seem to me that Revelation shows it could be blotted, or deleted. You can't delete something that's not there.

Do you believe in eternal security?

 

[OSAS 101]

JLB and FreeGrace2;
I've discovered that the two of you are brothers in Scripture
You take the same Scriptures and see them differently
But remember, God will judge us his way, for his ways are not our ways
We need to follow the best we can what we believe as long as we live.
God knows we're not all the same, he knows we don't think all the same, but he does know our hearts.
And the way I see it, you both pass.
Therefore, I declare this debate a tie even if you continue to batter each other.
I suggest now is a good time to start a new subject.

 

[GodsGrace101]

JLB and FreeGrace2;
I've discovered that the two of you are brothers in Scripture
You take the same Scriptures and see them differently
But remember, God will judge us his way, for his ways are not our ways
We need to follow the best we can what we believe as long as we live.
God knows we're not all the same, he knows we don't think all the same, but he does know our hearts.
And the way I see it, you both pass.
Therefore, I declare this debate a tie even if you continue to batter each other.
I suggest now is a good time to start a new subject.

There have been two recent posts from persons explaining how they abandoned God after being saved.

How do you explain that?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Why do you consistently reject Scripture?

It’s real simple.

Of course it's real simple. You don't like what refutes your opinons.

Just go to the scriptures that portray the Day of Judgement when we all will stand before Him to be judged according to our deeds.

I've gone to them. What is your point? You really think they teach that salvation is based on deeds, huh. Well, Jesus condemned the Pharisees, who thought just like yourself.

Your “doctrinal theory” disregards this Day and all the scriptures that pertain to and speak about this Day.

And, of course, you're wrong again.

In fact, I have explained BOTH the Bema and the Great White Throne Judgment and what both believers and unbelievers will earn at those judgments.

All relevant and true doctrine, the doctrine of Christ, must reconcile everything together and line up with the Day of Judgement, when we will be resurrected and stand before the throne of our King, Jesus Christ.

This is true, and your opinions don't reconcile anything from the Bible.

On that Day some will be given eternal life and some will be given eternal condemnation.

So again, we see that you have rejected what Jesus said about having eternal life from John 5:24 and 6:47 and what John said in 1 John 5:13. Those who believe HAVE eternal life.

Trying to quote other scriptures in an attempt to somehow make the truth “go away” will do no good.

Nonsense.

You are only deceiving yourself and those who choose to listen to you.

The deceiver is the one who rejects what Jesus taught in John 5:24, 6:47 and 10:28.

Here are a few.
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Do you really believe you have fulfilled the patient continuance in doing good? Why don't you believe what Paul wrote AFTER he wrote that? In Rom 3:9 and 23 he said that all are under sin and that all have sinned. So much for your unbiblical theories.

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-10

Wow. You really nailed a passage that directly applies to yourself.

Esp the "hardness and impenitent heart" by rejecting what Jesus taught about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life in John 10:28 and WHEN one possesses eternal life in John 5:24 and 6:47.

 

[FreeGrace2]

• And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

When do the righteous enter into eternal life?

When eternal life is referred to in the future, it always means eternity itself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

JLB and FreeGrace2;
I've discovered that the two of you are brothers in Scripture
You take the same Scriptures and see them differently

What I see is that he rejects outright the clear teaching of Jesus in John 10:28 about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life. His views are in direct opposition to what Jesus very plainly said.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish.

He believes there are many reasons why a recipient of eternal life CAN perish.

But remember, God will judge us his way, for his ways are not our ways

However, His Word is to us, so we know His ways by what His Words say. I don't believe it's a mystery.

We need to follow the best we can what we believe as long as we live.

We need to believe the truth. Which is what the Bible says.

God knows we're not all the same, he knows we don't think all the same, but he does know our hearts.
And the way I see it, you both pass.

I would never give a passing grade to anyone who directly contradicts what Jesus taught so plainly.

Therefore, I declare this debate a tie even if you continue to batter each other.
I suggest now is a good time to start a new subject.

When truth and error are in debate, there can be no ties. It's "right and wrong".

2 directly opposing ideas cannot both be true. Ever.

But thanks for the suggestion.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hi FG
It's amazing to me how much Greek, English grammar, and Literary Technique is necessary before one could understand the Bible!

Hi there, GG101.

It amazes me how some are so resistant to knowing what the original language actually says.

It sure does take lots of knowledge to know how to twist those scriptures around.

Actually, not so much. But it does take knowledge to know what the original writers actually meant by what they wrote.

 

[OSAS 101]

There have been two recent posts from persons explaining how they abandoned God after being saved.

How do you explain that?

prove it

 

[OSAS 101]

What I see is that he rejects outright the clear teaching of Jesus in John 10:28 about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life. His views are in direct opposition to what Jesus very plainly said.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish.

He believes there are many reasons why a recipient of eternal life CAN perish.


However, His Word is to us, so we know His ways by what His Words say. I don't believe it's a mystery.


We need to believe the truth. Which is what the Bible says.


I would never give a passing grade to anyone who directly contradicts what Jesus taught so plainly.


When truth and error are in debate, there can be no ties. It's "right and wrong".

2 directly opposing ideas cannot both be true. Ever.

But thanks for the suggestion.

Glad to be involved.
I learn from both of you.

 

[JLB777]

Do you really believe you have fulfilled the patient continuance in doing good? Why don't you believe what Paul wrote AFTER he wrote that? In Rom 3:9 and 23 he said that all are under sin and that all have sinned. So much for your unbiblical theories.

Is a sheep who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

What I see is that he rejects outright the clear teaching of Jesus in John 10:28 about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life. His views are in direct opposition to what Jesus very plainly said.

Please quote John 10:28 for us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Is a sheep who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved?



JLB

If it is found it is saved.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Hi FG
It's amazing to me how much Greek, English grammar, and Literary Technique is necessary before one could understand the Bible!

Fran, Most of our popular translations do a fine Job.

Take John 10:28 for example. Most of our translations do a good job at translating it. And most 3rd graders can understand it......but when the false teachers come in and say, believers can perish. We have the original language to go back to further substantiate that believers will NEVER perish.

Our translations say NEVER PERISH. But when the false teachers come along and add doubt .........The original language actually shows us that 'never perish' is in the double negative. Never, not ever perish. So the original language will substantiate what the translators got right, and will prove wrong what the translators got wrong.

Take the KJV for example. In Rom 8:1. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.PERIOD. The original language will show us that the KJV ADDED the rest of that verse.


Study to show yourself approved. And that includes the history at the time of writing and the original language. No translator was inspired.

 

[Gr8Grace]

If it is found it is saved.

He still say's, " I found my sheep...." He didn't say, " The sheep who became lost and returned to being a goat was found and when found became a sheep again."

 

[BNR32FAN]

He still say's, " I found my sheep...." He didn't say, " The sheep who became lost and returned to being a goat was found and when found became a sheep again."

What about verse 7?

“In the same way, there is more joy in heaven over one lost sinner who repents and returns to God than over ninety-nine others who are righteous and haven’t strayed away!”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:7‬

The sinner must repent and return to God. This is what I was talking about when I said if the sheep is found.

 

[Gr8Grace]

What about verse 7?

“In the same way, there is more joy in heaven over one lost sinner who repents and returns to God than over ninety-nine others who are righteous and haven’t strayed away!”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:7‬

The sinner must repent and return to God. This is what I was talking about when I said if the sheep is found.

Verse 7 is about a sinner who repents( believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.)

I think what you are overlooking is the "In the same way.." In verse 7.

When, we as sheep, rebound and get back in fellowship with the Lord( I found MY sheep)......Heaven rejoices.

IN THE SAME WAY Heaven rejoices when a sinner(unbeliever) repents(believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.)

 

[JLB777]

If it is found it is saved.

Yes. Agreed.

Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.



JPT

 

[JLB777]

Verse 7 is about a sinner who repents( believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.)

I think what you are overlooking is the "In the same way.." In verse 7.

When, we as sheep, rebound and get back in fellowship with the Lord( I found MY sheep)......Heaven rejoices.

IN THE SAME WAY Heaven rejoices when a sinner(unbeliever) repents(believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.)

For a sheep to be lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.



JPT

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes. Agreed.

Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.



JPT

Yes that makes sense.