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Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

Gr8Grace

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For a sheep to be lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.



JPT
Pay attention!

Verse 7 does not say a lost sheep. It is a lost SINNER. The previous verses are talking about lost sheep(out of fellowship, saved right now, having eternal life, never perishing SHEEP.)

A lost sheep names and sites their sins to God.1 John 1:9(I found MY sheep.) Heaven rejoices!

In the same way heaven rejoices when a lost sinner BELIEVES on the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 16:31,John 3:16.
 
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Gr8Grace

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What I see is that he rejects outright the clear teaching of Jesus in John 10:28 about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life. His views are in direct opposition to what Jesus very plainly said.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish.

He believes there are many reasons why a recipient of eternal life CAN perish.


However, His Word is to us, so we know His ways by what His Words say. I don't believe it's a mystery.


We need to believe the truth. Which is what the Bible says.


I would never give a passing grade to anyone who directly contradicts what Jesus taught so plainly.


When truth and error are in debate, there can be no ties. It's "right and wrong".

2 directly opposing ideas cannot both be true. Ever.

But thanks for the suggestion.
Agreed.

2 parties debate over 2+2. And It is a tie if one party says it equals 4 and the other says it equals 25?

Crazy stuff going on in this world.
 
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redleghunter

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There have been two recent posts from persons explaining how they abandoned God after being saved.

How do you explain that?
Did they have a certified “saved card” they turned in?
 
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Gr8Grace

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It amazes me how some are so resistant to knowing what the original language actually says.

We may have to reject what we have believed and been taught. And for some, that is a lifetime of deception. It is a tough pill to swallow.
 
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Gr8Grace

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Did they have a certified “saved card” they turned in?
The real question is:
Did God abandon them?

NO. He bought them with a price. They are no longer their own. They are a new creation. They are His Child. They will never perish. The will not come into condemnation. They are not destined to wrath. They have been saved, are saved and will forever be saved.

Discipline? Yes.
Loss of rewards? Yes
Loss of rank? Yes.
Loss of reign? Yes.

But saved FOREVER.........John 10:28.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I asked this:
"Do you really believe you have fulfilled the patient continuance in doing good? Why don't you believe what Paul wrote AFTER he wrote that? In Rom 3:9 and 23 he said that all are under sin and that all have sinned. So much for your unbiblical theories."
Is a sheep who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved?
Your question does not answer my question. Why do you persist in ignoring questions from others but persist in asking questions of others?

Why can't you understand that Paul made it very clear after writing Rom 2:7-8 that NO ONE can continue in doing good? He said there is NO ONE who is good, that ALL have sinned, and that ALL have fallen short of the glory of God? Rom 3:9, 23

So why do you persist in the fantasy that anyone can earn eternal life?

And your irrelevant question is from a parable. And we all know WHY Jesus used parables.

Acts 28:26 “ ‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said:
"What I see is that he rejects outright the clear teaching of Jesus in John 10:28 about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life. His views are in direct opposition to what Jesus very plainly said."
Please quote John 10:28 for us.
I'll do ya one better. I'll even color code it for all to see what Jesus was teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The red words tell us the CAUSE of possessing eternal life.
The blue words tell us the EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

Now, please attempt to prove that Jesus wasn't teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

The color coding makes it extremely easy to follow exactly what Jesus taught about possessing eternal life.

ball.in.your.court.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Pay attention!

Verse 7 does not say a lost sheep. It is a lost SINNER. The previous verses are talking about lost sheep(out of fellowship, saved right now, having eternal life, never perishing SHEEP.)

A lost sheep names and sites their sins to God.1 John 1:9(I found MY sheep.) Heaven rejoices!

In the same way heaven rejoices when a lost sinner BELIEVES on the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 16:31,John 3:16.
What the loss of salvation crowd don't believe is that Jesus' sheep (who have been given eternal life per John 10:28) cannot perish.

They believe that Jesus' sheep, IN DIRECT OPPOSITION to His words, can perish.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Verse 7 is about a sinner who repents( believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.)

I think what you are overlooking is the "In the same way.." In verse 7.

When, we as sheep, rebound and get back in fellowship with the Lord( I found MY sheep)......Heaven rejoices.

IN THE SAME WAY Heaven rejoices when a sinner(unbeliever) repents(believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.)

Are you suggesting that a lost sheep does not need to repent?
 
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Gr8Grace

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Are you suggesting that a lost sheep does not need to repent?
1 John 1:9.

When a believer, who can never, no not ever perish,grieves or quenches the forever indwelling Spirit, they name and site their sins to God to get back into fellowship With Christ.
 
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Gr8Grace

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Are you suggesting that a lost sheep does not need to repent?
Here is the million dollar question though.

Did you notice that The Lord Jesus Christ was describing His Sheep In the verses previous to verse 7?

When we as believers become lost(out of fellowship with the Lord) and rebound(1 John 1:9) There is a party with friends and neighbors.......heaven rejoices.

Now verse 7~~In the same way, Heaven rejoices when a lost sinner(unbeliever) repents(Believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.)
 
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JLB777

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Pay attention!

Verse 7 does not say a lost sheep. It is a lost SINNER. The previous verses are talking about lost sheep(out of fellowship, saved right now, having eternal life, never perishing SHEEP.)

A lost sheep names and sites their sins to God.1 John 1:9(I found MY sheep.) Heaven rejoices!

In the same way heaven rejoices when a lost sinner BELIEVES on the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 16:31,John 3:16.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.



  • What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
  • Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.


  • I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


A Christian who wanders away and becomes lost is no longer justified [declared right with God], and has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance, or remain lost.


Matthew's version shows us what Jesus taught about dealing with such a person, and in context shows us the principle of forgiveness and unforgiveness.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17


  • If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
  • And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.



Jesus defines the steps to take, to go after a person who has sinned against you to get them to repent:


  1. Moreover [likewise] if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
  2. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
  3. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
  4. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.



James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


  • Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth
  • and someone turns him back
  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
  • will save a soul from death


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.


For one of His sheep to become lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.



JLB
 
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JLB777

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When we as believers become lost(out of fellowship with the Lord) and rebound(1 John 1:9)


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


1 John 1:9 doesn't apply to you, because you don't believe it.

You believe
that a born again Christian doesn't need to confess their sin, because all their sins, past present and future are forgiven the moment they believe.


Therefore, the unrighteousness you have from sin stays with you, and is present with you when you stand before the Lord on the Day of Judgement.


Your demonic doctrine will be your fate on that Day.


How many will you drag with you to hell?




JLB
 
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JLB777

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I said:
"What I see is that he rejects outright the clear teaching of Jesus in John 10:28 about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life. His views are in direct opposition to what Jesus very plainly said."

I'll do ya one better. I'll even color code it for all to see what Jesus was teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The red words tell us the CAUSE of possessing eternal life.
The blue words tell us the EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

Now, please attempt to prove that Jesus wasn't teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

The color coding makes it extremely easy to follow exactly what Jesus taught about possessing eternal life.

ball.in.your.court.



I see you can't answer a simple question. LOL.


Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and become lost, saved or unsaved?




JLB
 
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BNR32FAN

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Here is the million dollar question though.

Did you notice that The Lord Jesus Christ was describing His Sheep In the verses previous to verse 7?

When we as believers become lost(out of fellowship with the Lord) and rebound(1 John 1:9) There is a party with friends and neighbors.......heaven rejoices.

Now verse 7~~In the same way, Heaven rejoices when a lost sinner(unbeliever) repents(Believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.)

Ok but the determining factor is the person must come back to Christ. The person cannot be in Christ at one time then turn away from Him and still be saved without repenting and turning back to Christ. The end result must be that the person is in Christ either at the time of their death or the second coming. If a person is not in Christ at the time of their death or the second coming then they will not be saved. But such a person was never saved because they wouldn’t have been written in the book of life before creation. OSAS is true on the basis that the book of life is never edited. If it was written before creation then God had foreseen the outcome of all who are written in it and any editing of the book would mean that God either didn’t foresee something or God made a mistake which is impossible.
 
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JLB777

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Here is the million dollar question though.

Did you notice that The Lord Jesus Christ was describing His Sheep In the verses previous to verse 7?

When we as believers become lost(out of fellowship with the Lord) and rebound(1 John 1:9) There is a party with friends and neighbors.......heaven rejoices.

Now verse 7~~In the same way, Heaven rejoices when a lost sinner(unbeliever) repents(Believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.)


Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?




JLB
 
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JLB777

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The shepherd has 100 sheep, they are his sheep; the sheep belong to him.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.



  • What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
  • Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.


  • I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.



Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


JLB
 
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Dan the deacon

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Here is the million dollar question though.

Did you notice that The Lord Jesus Christ was describing His Sheep In the verses previous to verse 7?

When we as believers become lost(out of fellowship with the Lord) and rebound(1 John 1:9) There is a party with friends and neighbors.......heaven rejoices.

Now verse 7~~In the same way, Heaven rejoices when a lost sinner(unbeliever) repents(Believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.)
But what if there is no repentance?
 
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