SDA

[1stcenturylady]

And so also do these non-SDA groups claim that the TEN Commandments are written on the heart under the New Covenant

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And so also these non-SDA groups



Do you know how many of them think all Catholics go to hell if they don't believe just like they do??



Indeed you are apparently not going to answer.



1. They are "proof" that this basic Bible detail is not something "only known to SDAs". Irrefutable.
2. I am happy to have those who wish to differ with me do so -- I merely stop them as they go to the "extreme" point of claiming that "only BobRyan knows that" or "only SDAs know that" when it comes to this basic Bible detail.
3. The detail you "missed" in the post you are quoting is that it is in answer to the notion that such non-SDA groups would always condemn anyone that may not know about one of the commandments or might not be aware that their current practice is in violation of the Ten.



We can see that same response to "inconvenient details" each time they are posted.

Nothing new there.

The irrefutable points remain..

1. They are "proof" that this basic Bible detail is not something "only known to SDAs". Irrefutable.
2. I am happy to have those who wish to differ with me do so -- I merely stop them as they go to the "extreme" point of claiming that "only BobRyan knows that" or "only SDAs know that" when it comes to this basic Bible detail.
3. The detail you "missed" in the post you are quoting is that it is in answer to the notion that such non-SDA groups would always condemn anyone that may not know about one of the commandments or might not be aware that their current practice is in violation of the Ten.

There you go again with your proof list! Yikes! If you only knew...

 

[bekkilyn]

There you go again with your proof list! Yikes! If you only knew...

The programmed responses do kind of get old as I'm not really sure what point that list is trying to make anyway. Is it a matter of because so-and-so thinks/thought this way, then we all have to think that way too for all time, even if it's wrong? Just because someone was a "respected theologian" or something like that doesn't mean that they are right on all things. Even they didn't fully know God. No one fully knows God, whether as an individual or as a denomination. Name dropping in order to "prove" that someone is right simply because it comes from a "famous" person (or organization) hasn't worked well on me. Many famous people have turned out to be wrong about many things over the course of history.

 

[mmksparbud]

The programmed responses do kind of get old as I'm not really sure what point that list is trying to make anyway. Is it a matter of because so-and-so thinks/thought this way, then we all have to think that way too for all time, even if it's wrong? Just because someone was a "respected theologian" or something like that doesn't mean that they are right on all things. Even they didn't fully know God. No one fully knows God, whether as an individual or as a denomination. Name dropping in order to "prove" that someone is right simply because it comes from a "famous" person (or organization) hasn't worked well on me. Many famous people have turned out to be wrong about many things over the course of history.

It's not that---it's that so many think that what we believe is only believed by us--because of EGW--which just isn't true. These other churches---no matter what other believes they have which we do not share with them--were a part of the reformation. They were important to the breaking away from RCC--they had martyrs for their faith and were a stepping stone to us. That warrants respect. They may not have advanced any further in their bible knowledge than to what they found, but it was people who were using the scriptures for the first time in centuries and that should be respected. Some of those people went up in flames for their faith, and others worked themselves into an early grave doing what they thought was the work of God. We protestants should not forget that though RCC did much in the persecution of believers, we turned around and did the very same thing to everyone else when we had the power. This isn't a matter of parading names to justify our pint of view. We justify our view by the scriptures, but these others lead the way to our freedom to decide what to believe.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The programmed responses do kind of get old as I'm not really sure what point that list is trying to make anyway. Is it a matter of because so-and-so thinks/thought this way, then we all have to think that way too for all time, even if it's wrong? Just because someone was a "respected theologian" or something like that doesn't mean that they are right on all things. Even they didn't fully know God. No one fully knows God, whether as an individual or as a denomination. Name dropping in order to "prove" that someone is right simply because it comes from a "famous" person (or organization) hasn't worked well on me. Many famous people have turned out to be wrong about many things over the course of history.

He just cuts and pastes nonsensically. You just wait, he'll blindly do it again. It's like a list of country leaders with Hitler on the list.

 

[BobRyan]

Every seventh day Adventist would believe the Ten Commandments are written in the mind and placed on the heart of believers

And so also do these non-SDA groups claim that the TEN Commandments are written on the heart under the New Covenant

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

I hope you know that not everyone respects those in that group you keep posting as "proof."

My job here is to state the incredibly obvious --

1. They are "proof" that this basic Bible detail is not something "only known to SDAs". Irrefutable.
2. I am happy to have those who wish to differ with me do so -- I merely stop them as they go to the "extreme" point of claiming that "only BobRyan knows that" or "only SDAs know that" when it comes to this basic Bible detail.

And I'm saying, I couldn't care less.

My job here is to "state the obvious".

You are taking the role of claiming that the obvious detail is "too difficult" to be seen.
Fine... I am happy with that division of roles here.

Far be it for me to complain about such an arrangement.

He just cuts and pastes

Because the "incredibly obvious" statement I make above - is more easily seen than you seem to have imagined to yourself.

Irrefutable statements cannot be "refuted" by the nonsensical "harrrumph" logic so cherished by some

The programmed responses do kind of get old .

Irrefutable statements often get that sort of "we can't refute it so it just keeps coming back... oh what will we do" sort of response. I think we all can easily see that point.

 

[BobRyan]

Excuse me? Who says the blood of Jesus doesn't take away sin??? We don't, I don't know of any church that says that!

True.. But your detractors might prefer to "make stuff up" instead of dealing with the real life posts we find in the discussion on this thread.

I just get tired of Bob posting those that do as if he is looking up to them. .

is it mere "emotionalism" that does not "wish" to notice that some Bible details are sooo incredibly obvious that even Calvinists admit to them??

 

[bekkilyn]

Irrefutable statements often get that sort of "we can't refute it so it just keeps coming back... oh what will we do" sort of response. I think we all can easily see that point.

Well considering that I never stated that only SDA's believe in the ten commandments, or whatever it is you are accusing people of doing, your entire point was lost on me, and I'm still not quite sure what it is other than if so-and-so famous guy believes in the ten commandments as his lord and savior, then no one should ever question it because so-and-so famous guy knows best.

It's really as simple as putting one's *full* trust in Jesus Christ under guidance of the Holy Spirit. The law cannot save you or keep you saved. Only Jesus can.

 

[mmksparbud]

It's really as simple as putting one's *full* trust in Jesus Christ under guidance of the Holy Spirit. The law cannot save you or keep you saved. Only Jesus can.

And we have always maintained that.

 

[Karola]

So sda have given up on sola scripture in order to accomadate what they see as errant catholic belief(though catholics will tell them they do not pray to the dead or worship statues)

The sda version of romans3:20 is then
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin.
So the law may or may not be a mirror that reveals your sin.
So you may or may not have an excuse to sin, depending on whether or not the law has made you conscious of sin.
So you cannot be condemned by committing sin, as you may not know you are breaking the law
Sounds like a licence to sin to me
As sola scripture has gone, I imagine they won’t ask anyone to accept it in their comments.

 

[mmksparbud]

So sda have given up on sola scripture in order to accomadate what they see as errant catholic belief(though catholics will tell them they do not pray to the dead or worship statues)

The sda version of romans3:20 is then
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin.
So the law may or may not be a mirror that reveals your sin.
So you may or may not have an excuse to sin, depending on whether or not the law has made you conscious of sin.
So you cannot be condemned by committing sin, as you may not know you are breaking the law
Sounds like a licence to sin to me
As sola scripture has gone, I imagine they won’t ask anyone to accept it in their comments.

And where do you get that idea?? We take the bible--the whole bible, not just random verses--for our doctrines. And the law is a mirror--period. A plain, thou shalt not is clear enough. The problem lies when the conscience has been replaced with a need for some sort of feeling to verify that what they are doing or not doing is right. There is no feeling involved with a plain thou shalt not--or a plain--remember. There is no justifying ones actions because you have no "burning bosom" to tell you otherwise as you have let complacency and routine, and convenience take over.

Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus expanded on the commandments---it is not just don't commit adultery--it is not having lust in the heart---the Holy Sprit leads into the further insight. Not away from it.

Mat_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

All will be fulfilled when He returns.

 

[Karola]

And where do you get that idea?? We take the bible--the whole bible, not just random verses--for our doctrines. And the law is a mirror--period. A plain, thou shalt not is clear enough. The problem lies when the conscience has been replaced with a need for some sort of feeling to verify that what they are doing or not doing is right. There is no feeling involved with a plain thou shalt not--or a plain--remember. There is no justifying ones actions because you have no "burning bosom" to tell you otherwise as you have let complacency and routine, and convenience take over.

Luk_16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus expanded on the commandments---it is not just don't commit adultery--it is not having lust in the heart---the Holy Sprit leads into the further insight. Not away from it.

Mat_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

All will be fulfilled when He returns.

Didn't you previously write
I don't know of anyone who believes Christians don't commit known sins! Those are the only ones they can commit! Christians can commit unknown sins because they have not understood everything yet, or are numbing their own consciences because they do not want to give up something---or someone:

So a Christian can commit as much unknown sin as they like due to numbing their own consciences because they do not want to give something up, and this will not affect their standing before God for they are not committing known sins, and only these sins are truly committing sin.


Same still applies, you have to believe rom 3:20 should be written as:
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin

 

[Karola]

Lets look at some other non solar scripture as far as sda members are concerned

If you love me, obey my commandments you are conscious you sin by failing to obey, I cannot expect you to show your love for me by obeying commandments you haqve no consciousness of failing to obey John14:15

The rich young ruler from an sda persepective:

A certain ruler asked him, ‘Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?’

19 ‘Why do you call me good?’ Jesus answered. ‘No one is good – except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: “You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honour your father and mother, but if you are not conscious you sin when you fail to obey these commandments, it is OK, your eternal security in this circumstance will not be threatened Luke18:19&20

 

[mmksparbud]

Didn't you previously write
I don't know of anyone who believes Christians don't commit known sins! Those are the only ones they can commit! Christians can commit unknown sins because they have not understood everything yet, or are numbing their own consciences because they do not want to give up something---or someone:

So a Christian can commit as much unknown sin as they like due to numbing their own consciences because they do not want to give something up, and this will not affect their standing before God for they are not committing known sins, and only these sins are truly committing sin.


Same still applies, you have to believe rom 3:20 should be written as:
Through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin

???? You are making no sense to me at this time.

Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[Karola]

???? You are making no sense to me at this time.

Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

And you relate the above to the Ten Commandments?

Why does it make no sense?
I don't know of anyone who believes Christians don't commit known sins! Those are the only ones they can commit! Christians can commit unknown sins because they have not understood everything yet, or are numbing their own consciences because they do not want to give up something---or someone:

You wrote that a Christian can only commit known sins. They can commit unknown sins by hardening their hearts, or numbing them because they want to be selfish and not give something up.

 

[Karola]

From the perspective of some sda mmebers, again, non sola scripture

If we confess our unknown sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. For Christians do not commit known sins, only unknown
1John1:9

 

[Karola]

From some sda members perspective, the new covenant should read

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts, which are unknown
I will remember no more.
For through the law you may or may not be conscious of sin

 

[mmksparbud]

And you relate the above to the Ten Commandments?

Why does it make no sense?
I don't know of anyone who believes Christians don't commit known sins! Those are the only ones they can commit! Christians can commit unknown sins because they have not understood everything yet, or are numbing their own consciences because they do not want to give up something---or someone:

You wrote that a Christian can only commit known sins. They can commit unknown sins by hardening their hearts, or numbing them because they want to be selfish and not give something up.

I'm not following you because 1--I've had 1 hr of sleep and I'm Tired! 2--You sin when you knowingly do what you know you are not to do---I said there are sins Christians will commit unknowingly--because they have not yet learned -- I said God even made provision for those sins even in the OT---
Lev 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
Lev 4:3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.
Lev_5:15 If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:
Num_15:26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
Num_15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.


Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
1Pe_1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe_2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Sometimes it can take a while for a new Christian to get everything right. Don't understand what is so very difficult about that. A Masai may discover Jesus---but it may take a while before he understands that we are not to drink the blood of animals--which is their culture. Not every Christian is born in the good old USA with 5 bibles in their home---- that nobody reads.

 

[Karola]

I'm not following you because 1--I've had 1 hr of sleep and I'm Tired! 2--You sin when you knowingly do what you know you are not to do---I said there are sins Christians will commit unknowingly--because they have not yet learned -- I said God even made provision for those sins even in the OT---
Lev 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
Lev 4:3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.
Lev_5:15 If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:
Num_15:26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
Num_15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.


Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
1Pe_1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe_2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Sometimes it can take a while for a new Christian to get everything right. Don't understand what is so very difficult about that. A Masai may discover Jesus---but it may take a while before he understands that we are not to drink the blood of animals--which is their culture. Not every Christian is born in the good old USA with 5 bibles in their home---- that nobody reads.

You wrote
Christians can commit unknown sins because they have not understood everything yet, or are numbing their own consciences because they do not want to give up something---or someone


Under the old covenant sins of ignorance were committed. Where specifically does it state sins of ignorance are committed for someone under the new covenant?

 

[mmksparbud]

You wrote
Christians can commit unknown sins because they have not understood everything yet, or are numbing their own consciences because they do not want to give up something---or someone


Under the old covenant sins of ignorance were committed. Where specifically does it state sins of ignorance are committed for someone under the new covenant?

WHAT T IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT CAN TAKE A WHILE FOR SOME PEOPLE TO LEARN WHAT THERE IS TO LEARN UNDER ANY COVENANT! What do you think happens---they learn everything by placing their hand on the bible?? This isn't Star Trek! Yes--people are very prone to hold onto to their mind sets---they will make all sorts of excuses for not giving up something or someone no matter how hard the Holy Spirit tells them not to! Sometimes God will then let you continue on your stubborn way until you end up with the dire consequences and start to think things over. I've seen it many times---and done it myself. But God will always take you at what point you are and move you forward--He never lets you stay where you are--unless you absolutely refuse to do His bidding. He will rake you over the same coals until you learn.

 

[Karola]

Sometimes it can take a while for a new Christian to get everything right. Don't understand what is so very difficult about that. A Masai may discover Jesus---but it may take a while before he understands that we are not to drink the blood of animals--which is their culture. Not every Christian is born in the good old USA with 5 bibles in their home---- that nobody reads.

The discussion was about the Ten Commandments, and the sda view you can sin in ignorance of them. Has someone not shown you previously, it is not a law written in ink anymore, but one written on human hearts. So why would you have to rely on reading a bible, reading what is written in ink to know what that specific law is? Does sola scripture not apply?
It seems it would not matter whether you read a bible, or had the law in your heart, for many sda members, it would still be the case that through the written law or law in your heart you may or may not be conscious of sin