SDA

[Karola]

WHAT T IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT CAN TAKE A WHILE FOR SOME PEOPLE TO LEARN WHAT THERE IS TO LEARN UNDER ANY COVENANT! What do you think happens---they learn everything by placing their hand on the bible?? This isn't Star Trek! Yes--people are very prone to hold onto to their mind sets---they will make all sorts of excuses for not giving up something or someone no matter how hard the Holy Spirit tells them not to! Sometimes God will then let you continue on your stubborn way until you end up with the dire consequences and start to think things over. I've seen it many times---and done it myself. But God will always take you at what point you are and move you forward--He never lets you stay where you are--unless you absolutely refuse to do His bidding. He will rake you over the same coals until you learn.

So while people are sinning in ignorance, due to as you say numbing, or hardening their hearts, due to not giving something or someone up, they are at this time committing unknown, not known sin, and known sin which you wrote are the only sins Christians can commit. That is what you wrote isn't it?

 

[mmksparbud]

The discussion was about the Ten Commandments, and the sda view you can sin in ignorance of them. Has someone not shown you previously, it is not a law written in ink anymore, but one written on human hearts. So why would you have to rely on reading a bible, reading what is written in ink to know what that specific law is? Does sola scripture not apply?
It seems it would not matter whether you read a bible, or had the law in your heart, for many sda members, it would still be the case that through the written law or law in your heart you may or may not be conscious of sin

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Act 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Aquila and Priscilla had to teach him some things. I f you think you do not need the bible to show you anything--by all means--go right ahead and get rid of it. Why bother giving them to anyone? Just baptize then and let their feelings lead them. For that matter why bother going to church and listening to sermons--seems like that also woud be redundant and not needed.

 

[Karola]

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Act 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Aquila and Priscilla had to teach him some things. I f you think you do not need the bible to show you anything--by all means--go right ahead and get rid of it. Why bother giving them to anyone? Just baptize then and let their feelings lead them. For that matter why bother going to church and listening to sermons--seems like that also woud be redundant and noit needed.

I did not say you don't need the bible for anything. I wrote that under the new covenant the law is in your heart, it is not a law written in ink. So why would you need a bible to know what that law is? I can only assume, for many sda members, sola scripture does not apply concerning the basis of the new covenant

 

[mmksparbud]

Enough--got to go--computer overheating again, running out of ice. You may continue on your own.

 

[mmksparbud]

I did not say you don't need the bible for anything. I wrote that under the new covenant the law is in your heart, it is not a law written in ink. So why would you need a bible to know what that law is? I can only assume, for many sda members, sola scripture does not apply concerning the basis of the new covenant

Why do you keep saying sola scriptura does not apply when it does, obviously, or we wouldn't be having this discussion at all as we are talking about the scriptures!! I must go--I can't have my computer melt yet! No way to replace it.

 

[Karola]

Why do you keep saying sola scriptura does not apply when it does, obviously, or we wouldn't be having this discussion at all as we are talking about the scriptures!! I must go--I can't have my computer melt yet! No way to replace it.

Hope your computer works better once it has cooled down.
How can sola scripture apply if sda members believe
Through the law we may or may not become conscious of sin

How can sola scripture apply if you must read what is written down in the Ten Commandments, what was engraved on stone to know what sin is, or law you should follow? Sola scripture says the law is in your heart and mind, it is not a law written in ink, or engraved on stone, but a law by the Spirit of the living God written on tablets of human hearts

 

[Original Happy Camper]

but one written on human hearts.

Would you be so kind as to explain your view of which law,it is that is written on our hearts?

 

[Karola]

Would you be so kind as to explain your view of which law,it is that is written on our hearts?

On the basis that sin is the transgression of the law, and through the law we become conscious of sin, it would be anything you in your mind knew was wrong to do, anything that gave you heartfelt conviction you sinned by doing. That is the only way to answer you, to write down a long list of anything you believe would be sin to do, would be far too time consuming.
Of course, if you believe, through the law you may or may not become conscious of sin, I imagine my response would not be adequate.

 

[bekkilyn]

And we have always maintained that.

Except that you seem to need "supplements" to continue being saved, which would suggest the trust is lacking.

 

[bekkilyn]

Would you be so kind as to explain your view of which law,it is that is written on our hearts?

The Holy Spirit.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Was there a Catholic church in the third and fourth centuries?

It is different according to who you talk to.

 

[klutedavid]

It is different according to who you talk to.

That is what complicates and confuses everyone.

The difference between a catholic (universal) church and the Roman Catholic church, is what people misunderstand.

The council of Laodicea was not attended by a bishop from Rome, the Roman Catholic church still did not exist as late as 363 AD.

 

[BobRyan]

The discussion was about the Ten Commandments, and the sda view you can sin in ignorance of them. Has someone not shown you previously, it is not a law written in ink anymore, but one written on human hearts. So why would you have to rely on reading a bible, reading what is written in ink to know what that specific law is? Does sola scripture not apply?
It seems it would not matter whether you read a bible, or had the law in your heart, for many sda members, it would still be the case that through the written law or law in your heart you may or may not be conscious of sin

There a many avenues for ignorance regarding truth and light. "Sanctify them in Thy Truth - Thy WORD is Truth" John 17. "I am the way the TRUTH and the Life" John 14

1. Many have a Bible and "choose" not to read it. Their choice is not an "excuse" that works with God. they choose to turn from light.
2. Many others have no Bible at all - and for them Romans 1 and Romans 2 come into the picture

 

[BobRyan]

Would you be so kind as to explain your view of which law,it is that is written on our hearts?

Jeremiah is writing in Jer 31:31-33 for the "NEW Covenant" definition. the term is the moral law of God that as 1John 3:4 says -- defines what sin is. "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Hebrews 8:6-12 says that the NEW Covenant definition is unchanged from its Jer 31 form.

 

[BobRyan]

From some sda members perspective, the new covenant should read

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts, which are unknown
I will remember no more.
For through the law you may or may not be conscious of sin

Entertaining but not factual.
The text speaks of forgiveness of sins and no SDA here has argued that you do not get forgiveness of a sin "if you know about the sin".

Please be serious. This is the Bible and in this case - the Gospel. That sort of joking around falls short of reality.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
And God the Holy Spirit is the author of scripture -- 2 Tim 3:16 , 2 Peter 1:20-21. No amount of attempting to pit God's Word against God - will ever survive the light of day."

So your claim is that God is *limited* by scripture then

Less creative writing - more attention to details in the discussion please.

My claim is that Jesus (the whole Trinity) is not limited by scripture

My claim is that God's Word can be trusted and those who choose "their own feelings" instead, may then go on to rely on sola-creative-writing or sola-emotional-statement since they "feel" that God's Word does not have as much value as "feelings".

The problem there is that Muslims and Hindus also have "feelings". Sola-feelings is in fact "shifting sand"

 

[1stcenturylady]

That is what complicates and confuses everyone.

The difference between a catholic (universal) church and the Roman Catholic church, is what people misunderstand.

The council of Laodicea was not attended by a bishop from Rome, the Roman Catholic church still did not exist as late as 363 AD.

The Orthodox church claims to have started on the Day of Pentecost, but the Pentecostal denomination is the only one that closely resembles that Church. The Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox churches added praying to Mary and pagan bells and whistels which really takes them out of the running for a totally Christian denomination. You can't add paganism and be pure. It's not how you start the race, but how you finish.

 

[BobRyan]

On the basis that sin is the transgression of the law, and through the law we become conscious of sin, it would be anything you in your mind knew was wrong to do

So then "knowing in your mind" that the Bible is the "Word of God" and is "Truth" - your mind would know to read what God has said and to obey.

 

[BobRyan]

So while people are sinning in ignorance,

"To him that knows to do right - and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17

Some people "know" it is right to read the Bible.

Some other people "don't have Bibles".

So then - the case of those who have not bible.

Romans 2:13-16
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

 

[klutedavid]

The Orthodox church claims to have started on the Day of Pentecost, but the Pentecostal denomination is the only one that closely resembles that Church. The Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox churches added praying to Mary and pagan bells and whistels which really takes them out of the running for a totally Christian denomination. You can't add paganism and be pure. It's not how you start the race, but how you finish.

Your missing the point.