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As you surely know by now, no one who disagrees with you about observing a Saturday sabbath is going to change their mind no matter what you write, as you will not change your mind no matter what anyone writes to you. So why not discuss something else for a while?Computer going kaput---out trying to get fixed for almost a week--no can do. Have to get new one soon---
Last I was commenting on was that people seem to think that the Holy Spirit has informed no one of the Sabbath except through "ink"----I posted this and wonder why no one commented on it.
God has His Spirit everywhere:
God prepares Northwest Alaska
In 1867, God was working within the hearts of Inupiat people while the United States negotiated the purchase of Alaska from Russia. Although that contract was ridiculed and called Steward’s Folly because Secretary of State Steward bargained for what was termed a worthless frozen wilderness, God was instructing an Inupiat native (popularly called Eskimos) named Maniilaq in changes that would forever affect these people. God esteems them more precious than minerals and petroleum an industrialized society coveted.
This prophet Maniilaq knew God was speaking and although he was belittled and scorned, a time would come when his contemporaries understood unseen forces loved them. These Eskimos would soon learn how modern conveniences could lessen their everyday cares and about a cosmic conflict where choices have eternal consequences.
A day to keep sacred
One day in seven, later known to be Saturday, the Sabbath, Maniilaq’s beating drum echoed in the hostile wilderness calling his people to a place where he foretold of unimagined changes. Like the children of Israel elevating a serpentine pole in the wilderness, Maniilaq elevated a staff with a dead animal’s skin attached indicating Saturday was a sacred day. It was also time for Eskimo people to hear of God’s plans. It was God’s Son whose body was also elevated upon what was called the death on a tree. His sacrificial death became the substitutional cloak for humankind’s unworthiness.
Some revelations are still future
Maniilaq’s revelations were and are for everyone. When associated with Bible prophecies, they reveal God’s providential care for His entire creation. This allows humanity to prepare for coming food shortages, higher ocean levels after glacial ice melts, and an apocalyptic climax to scriptures that none can escape.
Lifestyle, social and religious change
In the mid 1800s these Eskimos knew nothing of the government to the south that purchased their homeland. Never hearing of a white man, the Ten-Commandments, or Jesus, yet similar to John the Baptist’s mission to Israel, the prophet Maniilaq prepared Eskimos for important lifestyle and social changes. Terror had gripped natives of other Inupiat tribes who first saw white-faced men yet those who heard Maniilaq were composed.
In a wooing manner, God spoke softly to Maniilaq, telling of the Father and Son above who are the Source of intelligence and thought. Then God revealed to him even greater truths.
Natives elsewhere hear of God
Maniilaq’s story reminds us of other visionaries in isolated locations where God similarly prepared natives to receive His Sabbath truth and learn of Christ’s great sacrifice for humanity.
God prepares South America
Perhaps the most famous such case among Sabbath-keeping Christians is the tribe of Davis Indians in South America. Nearly a century ago, Chief Auka was told by a divine being to hang a rope with seven knots, resting weekly on the day of the last knot—this being Saturday. This shining angel introduced them to the seventh-day Sabbath long before Sabbath-keeping Pastor Davis worked with these natives.
They were vegetarians and looked for a white man carrying a book telling about God. So much of Chief Auka’s tribe were already aware of Bible truths. They kept telling Pastor Davis, “We already know this, teach us something new.” This remote tribe is quite civilized today and speaks English fluently.
God prepares African natives
The Bushman Sekuba, an African of the mid 1900s, is another native prophet. A glowing being told him to travel eastward to find the Sabbath-keeping pastor Moyo who had a black book explaining about God. After hiking more than one hundred miles, a cloud appeared in the distance and led him another hundred miles to an Adventist missionary compound. There Sekuba received a Bible (that he could miraculously read). Those at the compound kept a Saturday-Sabbath and possessed the Ellen White, “Testimonies”, as the angel had instructed.
Maniilaq revered God’s Sabbath
Most biographies about Maniilaq are written by Sunday-keepers. These chronicles report he observed one-day-in-seven, thinking it was Sunday. Quakers were the first to evangelize the Inupiat; sometime afterward they changed to Sunday observance.
Inupiat elders hold Maniilaq in the highest regard as a true prophet of God. To preserve his history for future generations, in 1978 Eskimos who knew of Maniilaq were invited to speak at The Nana Elders Conference. This meeting was transcribed and is similar to our Bible that preserves ancient history of God’s dealings with humanity.
In this document, an Eskimo named Aqsivaabruk is quoted as remembering earlier years when they kept Saturday sacred because Maniilaq rested every seventh-day.
Initially the Inupiat were confused on Maniilaq resting. Accusing him of being lazy, he responded by saying he kept the commandments of his heavenly Grandfather. Then Aqsivaabruk recalls how his people later followed the teachings of those who changed their Sabbath to Sunday.
How easy it is to adopt the teachings of authority figures in the church who, like the priests of Jesus’ day, “nail jots and tittles” of God’s law to the cross (Matthew 5:18). It is imperative we do not follow the traditions of men but obey Christ who said: “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matthew 15:9).
As you surely know by now, no one who disagrees with you about observing a Saturday sabbath is going to change their mind no matter what you write, as you will not change your mind no matter what anyone writes to you. So why not discuss something else for a while?
Not if you just accept what it says instead of inserting preference and spin into it.
God himself is pretty creative too, so then we accurately convey what He has creatively written in scripture - instead of quoting-self, making stuff up, engaging in creative writing instead of accurate reading.
etc.
1 Cor 10:4
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
1 Peter 1: 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow
Heb 4:1-2 "WE have had the gospel preached to us just as THEY also"
Computer going kaput---out trying to get fixed for almost a week--no can do. Have to get new one soon---
Last I was commenting on was that people seem to think that the Holy Spirit has informed no one of the Sabbath except through "ink"----I posted this and wonder why no one commented on it.
God has His Spirit everywhere:
God prepares Northwest Alaska
In 1867, God was working within the hearts of Inupiat people while the United States negotiated the purchase of Alaska from Russia. Although that contract was ridiculed and called Steward’s Folly because Secretary of State Steward bargained for what was termed a worthless frozen wilderness, God was instructing an Inupiat native (popularly called Eskimos) named Maniilaq in changes that would forever affect these people. God esteems them more precious than minerals and petroleum an industrialized society coveted.
This prophet Maniilaq knew God was speaking and although he was belittled and scorned, a time would come when his contemporaries understood unseen forces loved them. These Eskimos would soon learn how modern conveniences could lessen their everyday cares and about a cosmic conflict where choices have eternal consequences.
A day to keep sacred
One day in seven, later known to be Saturday, the Sabbath, Maniilaq’s beating drum echoed in the hostile wilderness calling his people to a place where he foretold of unimagined changes. Like the children of Israel elevating a serpentine pole in the wilderness, Maniilaq elevated a staff with a dead animal’s skin attached indicating Saturday was a sacred day. It was also time for Eskimo people to hear of God’s plans. It was God’s Son whose body was also elevated upon what was called the death on a tree. His sacrificial death became the substitutional cloak for humankind’s unworthiness.
Some revelations are still future
Maniilaq’s revelations were and are for everyone. When associated with Bible prophecies, they reveal God’s providential care for His entire creation. This allows humanity to prepare for coming food shortages, higher ocean levels after glacial ice melts, and an apocalyptic climax to scriptures that none can escape.
Lifestyle, social and religious change
In the mid 1800s these Eskimos knew nothing of the government to the south that purchased their homeland. Never hearing of a white man, the Ten-Commandments, or Jesus, yet similar to John the Baptist’s mission to Israel, the prophet Maniilaq prepared Eskimos for important lifestyle and social changes. Terror had gripped natives of other Inupiat tribes who first saw white-faced men yet those who heard Maniilaq were composed.
In a wooing manner, God spoke softly to Maniilaq, telling of the Father and Son above who are the Source of intelligence and thought. Then God revealed to him even greater truths.
Natives elsewhere hear of God
Maniilaq’s story reminds us of other visionaries in isolated locations where God similarly prepared natives to receive His Sabbath truth and learn of Christ’s great sacrifice for humanity.
God prepares South America
Perhaps the most famous such case among Sabbath-keeping Christians is the tribe of Davis Indians in South America. Nearly a century ago, Chief Auka was told by a divine being to hang a rope with seven knots, resting weekly on the day of the last knot—this being Saturday. This shining angel introduced them to the seventh-day Sabbath long before Sabbath-keeping Pastor Davis worked with these natives.
They were vegetarians and looked for a white man carrying a book telling about God. So much of Chief Auka’s tribe were already aware of Bible truths. They kept telling Pastor Davis, “We already know this, teach us something new.” This remote tribe is quite civilized today and speaks English fluently.
God prepares African natives
The Bushman Sekuba, an African of the mid 1900s, is another native prophet. A glowing being told him to travel eastward to find the Sabbath-keeping pastor Moyo who had a black book explaining about God. After hiking more than one hundred miles, a cloud appeared in the distance and led him another hundred miles to an Adventist missionary compound. There Sekuba received a Bible (that he could miraculously read). Those at the compound kept a Saturday-Sabbath and possessed the Ellen White, “Testimonies”, as the angel had instructed.
Maniilaq revered God’s Sabbath
Most biographies about Maniilaq are written by Sunday-keepers. These chronicles report he observed one-day-in-seven, thinking it was Sunday. Quakers were the first to evangelize the Inupiat; sometime afterward they changed to Sunday observance.
Inupiat elders hold Maniilaq in the highest regard as a true prophet of God. To preserve his history for future generations, in 1978 Eskimos who knew of Maniilaq were invited to speak at The Nana Elders Conference. This meeting was transcribed and is similar to our Bible that preserves ancient history of God’s dealings with humanity.
In this document, an Eskimo named Aqsivaabruk is quoted as remembering earlier years when they kept Saturday sacred because Maniilaq rested every seventh-day.
Initially the Inupiat were confused on Maniilaq resting. Accusing him of being lazy, he responded by saying he kept the commandments of his heavenly Grandfather. Then Aqsivaabruk recalls how his people later followed the teachings of those who changed their Sabbath to Sunday.
How easy it is to adopt the teachings of authority figures in the church who, like the priests of Jesus’ day, “nail jots and tittles” of God’s law to the cross (Matthew 5:18). It is imperative we do not follow the traditions of men but obey Christ who said: “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matthew 15:9).
Scripture can be pretty creative
If you think this is "creative writing" then point out where all the Christians are in these Isaiah verses you quoted !
Then why do you keep doing it yourself? What you convey through your creatively cherry-picked verses <obligatory sniping deleted here>...
As you surely know by now, no one who disagrees with you about observing a Saturday sabbath is going to change their mind no matter what you write,
I am not opposed to the idea that Holy Spirit may require particular people to observe a physical sabbath, regardless of whether it is on Saturday or any other day. It is physically healthy and as a means of grace, can help people strengthen their relationship with God in the same manner as fasting, meditation, studying scripture, prayer, etc.
What I disagree about is that it is *required* of all Christians and there is absolutely no scriptural evidence that a ceremonial weekly sabbath is mandatory for all Christians. If it was mandatory for Christians, it would be all over Christian scriptures, and yet not a word is ever said about it *any* of the Christian writers. It's not scriptural to be under the old covenant as a Christian. To do so is to make a statement that Jesus' grace isn't enough and we have to somehow "help" him to save us, which displays a *lack* of faith and trust.
What I see in the Maniilaq tale (provided he isn't a false prophet) is of God's prevenient *grace* and not about sabbath-keeping, that even before the man knew God, God knew him and was extending his grace to him, and then it seems that thanks to God working through the Quakers, he finally came to know Christ. To make this a story about sabbath-keeping rather than Christ does a disservice to the tale.
Really? Well OK. I guess I should assume then no sda member has been born again, for in your view, the people you mentioned knew they must observe a specific Saturday sabbath as that law as written was in their heart and mind. As no sda member believed that without looking to where the law is not for the believer, I guess none of them are born again if you are right.LOL!!---Nice dodge!
I cannot debate with you, you do gymnastics with the plainly written word whenever you have a problem with it. Then you accuse me of deleting one text with another which is exactly what you were trying to do. Have a nice dayAs we all know by now - ALL these pro-sunday Christian groups AGREE that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God - written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
In the case of the Bible Sabbath it is very clear - beyond all question,
1. It was made for mankind Mark 2:27
2. It is one of the TEN commandments - Ex 20:8-11 and is the seventh day
3. It is still in force for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth for all mankind Is 66:23
4. Gentiles are specifically singled out even in the OT for Sabbath keeping - Isaiah 56:6-8
Not if you just accept what it says instead of inserting preference and spin into it.
God himself is pretty creative too, so then we accurately convey what He has creatively written in scripture - instead of quoting-self, making stuff up, engaging in creative writing instead of accurate reading.
etc.
1 Cor 10:4
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
1 Peter 1: 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow
Heb 4:1-2 "WE have had the gospel preached to us just as THEY also"
Substance..... looking for substance.
1. No text calls the 4th commandment Sabbath "ceremonial Sabbath" for that fiction we need to "quote you".
2. Almost every Christian group on the planet admits the obvious fact that all TEN of the TEN commandments are moral law - not ceremonial law.
Christ created the Sabbath at creation. It is His Sabbath, He is the Lord of it and never said to worship Him on ay other day. Obeying God is not a matter of if it is convenient or not or if it "feels" right or not.
The time will come when it will be a clear choice. I am going to have to quite for a while--see what I can do to get new computer. We are all set in our path.
I cannot debate with you, you do gymnastics with the plainly written word whenever you have a problem with it. Then you accuse me of deleting one text with another which is exactly what you were trying to do. Have a nice day
Really? Well OK. I guess I should assume then no sda member has been born again, for in your view, the people you mentioned knew they must observe a specific Saturday sabbath as that law as written was in their heart and mind. As no sda member believed that without looking to where the law is not for the believer, I guess none of them are born again if you are right.
I wonder if I found stories of people who had never read a bible but believed they should worship and contemplate on God every day of the week the same what you would say then? Or if they believed they should set aside a Sunday for God, how you would feel then? Hmmm, I doubt the same logic would apply then would it!!
Anyway, you obviously believe Christians have a licence to sin, so I wouldn't feel able to accept what you write anyway. It is true isn't it, you accept as Christians people who have no conscience whatsoever about breaking the letter of ten commandments(in respect of your view they must follow a specific Saturday sabbath) that you believe is written in their hearts and minds. . They can hardly be said to be sinning in ignorance for everyone you debate with on this website knows what the wording of the fourth commandment states. LGW relentlessly tells us: Break one of the Ten Commandments and you break them all. So I guess, according to what sda members believe I can commit murder, steal, commit adultery and lie and its no problem, for I remain saved anyway
The true sabbath of creation is an eternal sabbath through Jesus Christ. Not about ritually observing a day of the week as in the Sinai covenant. That was a "shadow sabbath" and had a very particular purpose that was made obsolete under the new covenant. When you stop mixing and matching covenants, you can see. No one is arguing convenience. It's all about Jesus Christ and the real, living *event* of his resurrection.
You struggle it seems to understand simple sentances. The law is not a written law in ink for believers, how does learning of the Holy Spirit concern that?MMM---I wonder where you heard that there is a Holy Spirit? Where did you learn the law is written anywhere? What law is that and here did you hear about it?
You all said that no one ever heard bout the Sabbath but through the written word---But many have. And why do you lie and say that I believe Christians have a license to sin when the bible clearly says that no sinner gets to be with Jesus---have you not been born again that you should judge another in this way? Who is LGW? And why do you believe that anyone remains saved if they unrepentantly break any commandment?? I do hope you read the written word of God sometime instead if relying on feelings for your doctrines--
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
You struggle it seems to understand simple sentances. The law is not a written law in ink for believers, how does learning of the Holy Spirit concern that?
You must believe Christians have a licence to sin. You accept as Christians people you believe break the ten commandments, and do so constantly concerning law in their hearts. You do believe unrepentant sinners remain saved, for you accept as Christians those you believe constantly break law written in their minds and placed on their hearts concerning the ten commandments unrepentantly.
I said sda members only know they should observe a specific Saturday sabbath by looking to where the law is not for believers. Please pay attention to what is written to you, or reply honestly concerning what is written to you.
Why in the world would anyone think they have a license to sin? You make no sense--sorry. You keep insisting on telling me what I think, instead of listening to what I say. As long as you keep telling anyone what they think instead of paying attention to what they are saying--no one will ever be able to have a true discussion with you. You decide what the person thinks and that is that. Nothing at all to do with what they say. It's a one way conversation.
Lets spell it out clearly. SDA members believe it is written in your mind and placed on your heart to follow a specific Saturday Sabbath
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