SDA

[BobRyan]

Without wishing to sidetrack the debate, I always thought roughly half of trinitarian churchgoers believed Jesus was a created being if you like, at some point pre the biblical beginning(creation) and they solely referred to Christ as the Son of God. This is based on what I have experienced, in many protestant denominations

I have heard and read a great many denominational statements on the person of Christ (God the Son) and have only found a small handful of people that do not admit that God the Son is infinite - from eternity past... with beginning as Hebrews 7 states.

Oh I have met seventh day Adventists who believe only the Father is the one true God, you want to broaden your horizons

I have actually read the 28 fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists and have attend the sessions of the world wide church representatives voting on the agreed upon statement of beliefs for the entire world church of Seventh-day Adventists.

I repeat -

I have heard and read a great many denominational statements on the person of Christ (God the Son) and have only found a small handful of people that do not admit that God the Son is infinite - from eternity past... with beginning as Hebrews 7 states.

So then generally speaking - a non-SDA who has "met a seventh-day Adventist" at some point -- does not come across to me as some sort of expert on the denomination's statement of beliefs as if I might need to toss out a life time of evidence to the contrary for whatever creative writing they wish to propose on a ad hoc basis.

 

[BobRyan]

Let me enlighten you, roughly half(conservative figure) of people who attend trinitarian churches solely term Christ the Son of God. And at least 95% of people in those churches will accept anyone as a Christian if they only term Christ the son of God. The internet is very different of course, head theology is what matters most here

Which does nothing to sustain your accusation since "definition of the term" is being ignored in your statement. You do not "show" that 95% of Christians define the term as "created and not from all eternity" -- are you imagining it for us - or what exactly is your proposal?

 

[Karola]

I have heard and read a great many denominational statements on the person of Christ (God the Son) and have only found a small handful of people that do not admit that God the Son is infinite - from eternity past... with beginning as Hebrews 7 states.



I have actually read the 28 fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists and have attend the sessions of the world wide church representatives voting on the agreed upon statement of beliefs for the entire world church of Seventh-day Adventists.

I repeat -

I have heard and read a great many denominational statements on the person of Christ (God the Son) and have only found a small handful of people that do not admit that God the Son is infinite - from eternity past... with beginning as Hebrews 7 states.

So then generally speaking - a non-SDA who has "met a seventh-day Adventist" at some point -- does not come across to me as some sort of expert on the denomination's statement of beliefs as if I might need to toss out a life time of evidence to the contrary for whatever creative writing they wish to propose on a ad hoc basis.

Yes, I am sure you believe if anyone stands on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth they are condemned to hell(John17:3&John14:28) But as it is no problem for you to do sommersaults with scripture when you need to, I imagine that will be the response

 

[BobRyan]

off topic tactic -- bring up doctrines contrary to the published 28 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists - that you also believe are wrong - then complain that Adventist will not say they believe it.

 

[Karola]

Which does nothing to sustain your accusation since "definition of the term" is being ignored in your statement. You do not "show" that 95% of Christians define the term as "created and not from all eternity" -- are you imagining it for us - or what exactly is your proposal?

Isnt your church signed up to what all the other mainline trinitarian churches are signed up to? You must believe Christ is the one true God to inherit eternal life?

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, I am sure you believe if anyone stands on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth they are condemned to hell(John17:3&John14:28)

I assume this is another one of your "fictions" being tried out in the form of creative writing.

Why keep doing that?

Who is supposed to be snookered by it? me??

 

[BobRyan]

Isnt your church signed up to what all the other mainline trinitarian churches are signed up to? You must believe Christ is the one true God to inherit eternal life?

Romans 2:13-16 says that those with no Bible at all will in some case be found to be under the New Covenant -- the Law of God written on the heart... saved.

 

[Karola]

I assume this is another one of your "fictions" being tried out in the form of creative writing.

Why keep doing that?

Who is supposed to be snookered by it? me??

Great response, fiction to give you the words of Christ

 

[Karola]

Romans 2:13-16 says that those with no Bible at all will in some case be found to be under the New Covenant -- the Law of God written on the heart... saved.

I'm still waiting for your scripture that states:
Through the law we may or may not become conscious of sin

 

[Karola]

Romans 2:13-16 says that those with no Bible at all will in some case be found to be under the New Covenant -- the Law of God written on the heart... saved.

good deflection BTW

 

[Karola]

Romans 2:13-16 says that those with no Bible at all will in some case be found to be under the New Covenant -- the Law of God written on the heart... saved.

Just to let you know, all the mainline trinitarian churches are signed up to the belief, you must believe Jesus is the one true God to inherit eternal life. Yet Jesus states only the Father is the one true God
Which means, you are condemned to hell if you stand on the words of Christ when he walked this earth(unless you do sommersaults with what is clearly written of course)

 

[BobRyan]

Just to let you know, all the mainline trinitarian churches are signed up to the belief, you must believe Jesus is the one true God to inherit eternal life. Yet Jesus states only the Father is the one true God

Deut 6:5 "God is ONE" - One God
Matthew 28:19 in THREE Persons -- "The name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit".

Jesus is the second person of that Godhead - each "person" in it - fully God but not polytheism not "three gods".

We are saved by "our great God and Savior - Jesus Christ" Titus 2:13 as Jesus reminds us via the writing of Paul.

There is "no other name under heaven given among men - whereby we must be saved".

 

[Karola]

Deut 6:5 "God is ONE" - One God
Matthew 28:19 in THREE Persons -- "The name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit".

Jesus is the second person of that Godhead - each "person" in it - fully God but not polytheism not "three gods".

Did you not read my post, Jesus stated ONLY the Father is the one true God

 

[BobRyan]

Did you not read my post, Jesus stated ONLY the Father is the one true God

Jesus never says "I am not God" or "I am a false God - the Father is the true God".

Thus in the Bible Jesus is "our great God and Savior" Titus 2:13

You keep trying to "delete one text with another" in the scripture-slicing "either-or" model you have chosen. That is a flawed theory.

 

[Karola]

Jesus never says "I am not God" or "I am a false God - the Father is the true God".

Thus in the Bible Jesus is "our great God and Savior" Titus 2:13

You keep trying to "delete one text with another" in the scripture-slicing "either-or" model you have chosen. That is a flawed theory.

Jesus never says "I am not God" or "I am a false God - the Father is the true God".

Thus in the Bible Jesus is "our great God and Savior" Titus 2:13

You keep trying to "delete one text with another" in the scripture-slicing "either-or" model you have chosen. That is a flawed theory.

That they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

I guess you will just have to do sommersaults with what is written won't you

 

[Karola]

Jesus never says "I am not God" or "I am a false God - the Father is the true God".

Thus in the Bible Jesus is "our great God and Savior" Titus 2:13

You keep trying to "delete one text with another" in the scripture-slicing "either-or" model you have chosen. That is a flawed theory.

BTW
I could respond to your scripture, but see no point, you will just keep arguing that what Jesus plainly stated could not be the truth

 

[BobRyan]

BTW
I could respond to your scripture, but see no point, you will just keep arguing that what Jesus plainly stated could not be the truth

I never argue that ... I argue that your slice-and-ignore-scripture trying to delete one with the other... via the "either or" flawed model - ends up in false doctrine which Christ himself condemned.

 

[BobRyan]

Did you not read my post, Jesus stated ONLY the Father is the one true God

Jesus never says "I am not God" or "I am a false God - the Father is the true God".

Thus in the Bible Jesus is "our great God and Savior" Titus 2:13

You keep trying to "delete one text with another" in the scripture-slicing "either-or" model you have chosen. That is a flawed theory.

That they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

Is that how you imagined you could delete Titus 2:13?

Stop using the "either-or so I deleted that text" idea.

 

[Karola]

Jesus never says "I am not God"

Keep up with your deflection


That they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

 

[Karola]

Jesus never says "I am not God" or "I am a false God - the Father is the true God".

Thus in the Bible Jesus is "our great God and Savior" Titus 2:13

You keep trying to "delete one text with another" in the scripture-slicing "either-or" model you have chosen. That is a flawed theory.



Is that how you imagined you could delete Titus 2:13?

Stop using the "either-or so I deleted that text" idea.

I could answer that easily, but what is the point? Here is a hint, the answer is in John17:3