Scripture ?

Giantsbran1227

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If the Bible is the word of God.... why is it that there are so many contradictions written in it? Why do we accept a book that has been re-written so many times, has had tons of passages removed, been revised by numerous councils, and is filled with contradictions? If it is truly the book given to us by God, shouldn't it be perfect as God himself is? I know we accept it as being so but why? It is hard to overlook all the glaring faults. We can't even say for sure who wrote a large majority of it. I've been talking to a few of my Islamic friends, and they bring up some very good points I find hard to refute.
 

ArmyMatt

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If the Bible is the word of God.... why is it that there are so many contradictions written in it? Why do we accept a book that has been re-written so many times, has had tons of passages removed, been revised by numerous councils, and is filled with contradictions? If it is truly the book given to us by God, shouldn't it be perfect as God himself is? I know we accept it as being so but why? It is hard to overlook all the glaring faults. We can't even say for sure who wrote a large majority of it. I've been talking to a few of my Islamic friends, and they bring up some very good points I find hard to refute.

that is because your Muslim friends think that the Bible should be read like their Koran. it shouldn't. there are only contradictions if you wanna see them in there. just like how if you interviewed a number of people who witnessed 9/11, you would get different details depending on what they saw, even though all testimonies could be true.

what evidence do they have that it has been added to, revised, rewritten, etc? that seems to be a post Da Vinci Code talking point. it's pretty weak.

it was a book written by God, but His Word is His Son. His Son is His perfect word, and no book can contain Him.
 
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choirfiend

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Who is saying that the contents aren't perfect, when perfectly understood and applied? No, we dont say that it is a book given as direct revelation to one man, literally the words God said and can never be translated like the Koran. If that's what they mean by perfect, anyway. I imagine there's quite a bit of contradictory info in there, too, or else you wouldn't have hadiths.
 
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gzt

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Revised by various councils? Tell us more about these contradictions, too.

The Quran also isn't as spotless as Muslim apologists would claim. It doesn't have no textual criticism because it was handed down perfect, it has no textual criticism because all early and variant copies were destroyed, leaving only the official text, which is still largely incoherent.
 
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Johnnz

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The scriptures as we have them today are sufficiently reliable for us to have a relationship with God. The words 'inerrant' and 'infallible' carry connotations that can obscure important issues such as genre, authorial intent, and editing, which lie behind your initial questions.

John
NZ
 
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Giantsbran1227

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Monica child of God 1

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dysert

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If the Bible is the word of God.... why is it that there are so many contradictions written in it? Why do we accept a book that has been re-written so many times, has had tons of passages removed, been revised by numerous councils, and is filled with contradictions? If it is truly the book given to us by God, shouldn't it be perfect as God himself is? I know we accept it as being so but why? It is hard to overlook all the glaring faults. We can't even say for sure who wrote a large majority of it. I've been talking to a few of my Islamic friends, and they bring up some very good points I find hard to refute.
I strongly suspect that I've studied the Bible a lot more than your Islamic friends, and I'm here to tell you that:
  • There are no contradictions
  • It hasn't been rewritten many times
  • It hasn't had tons of passages removed
  • It hasn't been revised by councils
It is a book inspired by God, so it is inerrant in the original manuscripts.

My suggestion is that when your friends bring up these "good points" you ask for details. My experience has always been, for example, that if someone claims there's a contradiction I ask them where. The alleged contradiction can easily be resolved when proper hermeneutics are applied.

Feel free to post details here, and I'm sure any number of us will be glad to help you.
 
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Atwood45

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If the Bible is the word of God.... why is it that there are so many contradictions written in it? Why do we accept a book that has been re-written so many times, has had tons of passages removed, been revised by numerous councils, and is filled with contradictions? If it is truly the book given to us by God, shouldn't it be perfect as God himself is? I know we accept it as being so but why? It is hard to overlook all the glaring faults. We can't even say for sure who wrote a large majority of it. I've been talking to a few of my Islamic friends, and they bring up some very good points I find hard to refute.

Muslims talking about a contradicting book ^_^. Again, what Matt said is spot on, and the information in the Quran is so contradicting, and just wrong. Did you know that the Quran makes it clear that Muhammad thought that the holy trinity was the father son and Mary? Did you know that part of Quran says no to kill, while another part says kill the infidels? Not to mention the Quran imposes not a religion, but a type of government, it was probably the best system ever created to control man and justify military conquest, but as a religious book its contradicting, and makes god look like a wrathful, unloving god who hates all, except muslims and on top of that only loves the select righteous muslims, which we both know isn't true from the Old and New Testament.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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Responses. I will finish watching the video and respond to the rest later:

1) The story of Noah and his drunkeness is not a hidden story. I have heard it discussed in church. The story says that Noah got drunk; it does not say that Noah was an alcoholic. It is possible to get completely smashed, do something crazy and not be an alcholic. Even if he was an alcoholic, that does not mean that he could not build an ark. Please. Not all alcoholics are falling down drunks that can't keep a job. There is such a thing as a functioning alcoholic.

2) The Bible is a record of real human behavior. It does not gloss over the bad behavior of prophets in order to lionize them. The Bible is an honest record of the sins and faults of the people of God.

The Quran on the other hand presents prophets in a very truncated, limited way. It really is a Reader's Digest version of the Old Testament. The prophets could not have been faultless and sinless, just as Muhammed was far from perfect and sinless.

3) We ask questions all the time! I have never, ever been told not to ask questions as a Christian. I became a Christian by reading the Bible and asking questions.

4) Jesus explicitly claims divinity and oneness with God:
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves...And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

5) re: Cursed is one who hangs on a tree. Muslims don't understand who the Messiah was supposed to be and what he was supposed to accomplish. He had to take on the curse of humanity in order to purify us. That was foretold in the Old Testament, but the teacher in this video must have missed it:

He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

M.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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Have you read Genesis about Isaac and Ishmael and the division of nations they represent?

Abraham loved Ishmael and his descendants through Ishmael. And God blessed Ishmael and made him into a great nation.


"And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation."

God loves the descendants of Ishmael and longs for them to be reconciled to Him, as He does for all humanity.

M.
 
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toLiJC

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there is no whatever conflict in the Holy Scripture, however there are many words/things that till now were not understandable for everyone who reads it, only the faith in God and Jesus which works by pure and perfect love to the humans holds good, while the reading/study of the Bible is not the right direction, as it is written:

Galatians 3:11-12 "that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith:"

Blessings
 
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Dorothea

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If the Bible is the word of God.... why is it that there are so many contradictions written in it? Why do we accept a book that has been re-written so many times, has had tons of passages removed, been revised by numerous councils, and is filled with contradictions? If it is truly the book given to us by God, shouldn't it be perfect as God himself is? I know we accept it as being so but why? It is hard to overlook all the glaring faults. We can't even say for sure who wrote a large majority of it. I've been talking to a few of my Islamic friends, and they bring up some very good points I find hard to refute.
It was written by human beings inspired by the Holy Spirit. It's not perfect, it's a holy book, but what is said about the Perfect God and His words are perfect.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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6) Yes, Jesus said follow the commandments. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The teacher fails to mention times when Jesus defends His disciples when they didn't follow the law

'One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”

Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”'

And when he healed on the sabbath and told the paralytic to get up and carry his bed, which was unlawful on the sabbath:

'When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, “Do you want to be healed?” The sick man answered him, “Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, and while I am going another steps down before me.” Jesus said to him, “Get up, take up your bed, and walk.” And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.

Now that day was the Sabbath. So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed.” But he answered them, “The man who healed me, that man said to me, ‘Take up your bed, and walk.’”

It is clear from Jesus' own teaching, not just Paul's, that the coming of the messiah would change the relationship of God's people to the law.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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7) The teacher was told that the Bible was the inerrant word of God. That is part of the problem here. The Word of God is not a book. The Word of God is Jesus Christ! Even the Quran refers to Jesus as the Word:

"Behold! The angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus. The son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those Nearest to Allah.
[Al-Qur’an 3:45]

The Word is perfect and Jesus never promised to deliver a book to us. The Protestants have centered on the Bible because they rejected the [Roman Catholic] Church. So because all they had was Scripture, they attributed inerrancy and infallibility to it. But that was never Christ's intention. His intention and promise was to build a Church (!) and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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8) He says that his criteria for finding a true religion was being handed a perfect book. Why? What sense does that make? What would make that an appropriate criterion? God never promised a perfect book to His people. God sent prophets to deliver messages and He gave the law to Moses. But there was never a promise of an infallible book.

God's word was delivered orally to the people. Even the Quran was delivered orally by Muhammed and memorized by the people. There was no compiled Quran at Muhammed's death. Futher, the Quran went through a process of canonization where imperfect versions or versions that contradicted other versions were destroyed. So...yeah...
 
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Monica child of God 1

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9) He was moved by seeing prostrations as true worship. Well, we got those. And I dislike pews as much as he does :D

10) The Quran doesn't say much about the Old Testament prophets. So he found that he could follow people when he knew less about their character? Okay...

11) The Trinity. He didn't understand the concept of the Trinity. This is something that a lot of people say who were raised Christian and convert to Islam. The fact that the Trinity is hard to understand doesn't mean that it is not true. The Trinity is seen in the Old Testament and the Gospels. It is the Truth of how God exists, not a way to understand God. If you can comprehend how God exists eternally and immutably, that is not God. A God that can be completely understood is not God.
 
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Giantsbran1227

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Thank you for all the elaborate responses Monica. I feel very few Christians would be able to respond as you did. So many refute Islam because they "blow themselves up" lol.

No, I'm not contemplating converting to Islam..... Although I am glad I researched it. So different than what has been shoved down my throat as an "American".
 
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