Scottish Church Gay Marriage - How do Conservatives React to constantly losing ground?

[HighwayMan]

Scottish Episcopal Church approves gay marriage - BBC News
The Episcopal church in Scotland has become the latest to back gay marriage.

For conservatives, how do you respond to this trend? More and more churches are making this move, while pretty much nothing happens on the other side (no progressive church changes direction and decides to ban gay marriage again)

[Staff edit].

The Anglican Communion may eventually approve of gay marriage as a whole. Catholics - probably not in our lifetime, but there are questions popping up there too. Evangelical Christianity could be the last holdout at the end centuries down the line.

Do conservatives agree with this projection? Do you ever see the trend reversing? How do you respond?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Scottish Episcopal Church approves gay marriage - BBC News
The Episcopal church in Scotland has become the latest to back gay marriage.

For conservatives, how do you respond to this trend? More and more churches are making this move, while pretty much nothing happens on the other side (no progressive church changes direction and decides to ban gay marriage again)

[Staff edit].

The Anglican Communion may eventually approve of gay marriage as a whole. Catholics - probably not in our lifetime, but there are questions popping up there too. Evangelical Christianity could be the last holdout at the end centuries down the line.

Do conservatives agree with this projection? Do you ever see the trend reversing? How do you respond?

How do I respond? I simply see these things as yet more evidence of the fulfillment of the time of the 'Falling Away.' There's nothing to get overly upset about (even though I sometimes am personally shocked by the varied forms of misbehavior) because we know that these things are supposed to happen. The world isn't going to be reformed, nor 'get better.' At least, it won't until the doctor arrives; in the meantime, spiritual sickness will pervade.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Dave G.]

My view is pretty much the same as 2Philavoid's view. It's just a sign of this age that we are in. When/if all the churches fail, I'll still be holding out with Jesus Christ Lord and Savior. We may one day be pockets of Christians meeting underground in homes. We may one day have finally dumped all the bogus denominational doctrines for the biblical doctrine of Jesus Christ. This says it best: 2 Timothy 4:3 3For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Scottish Episcopal Church approves gay marriage - BBC News
The Episcopal church in Scotland has become the latest to back gay marriage.

For conservatives, how do you respond to this trend? More and more churches are making this move, while pretty much nothing happens on the other side (no progressive church changes direction and decides to ban gay marriage again)

[Staff edit].

The Anglican Communion may eventually approve of gay marriage as a whole. Catholics - probably not in our lifetime, but there are questions popping up there too. Evangelical Christianity could be the last holdout at the end centuries down the line.

Do conservatives agree with this projection? Do you ever see the trend reversing? How do you respond?

I don't have much of a stance on it. The only thing against homosexuality in the Bible regarded homosexual sex, not loving attraction that can't be controlled anyway. Not everyone in relationships just wants sex. If sex is the intent of marriage then it's wrong, but if two people who just want to spend the rest of their lives together then it's okay. I don't think it should really be called "marriage" but maybe more of a "civil union" though.

 

[CrystalDragon]

How do I respond? I simply see these things as yet more evidence of the fulfillment of the time of the 'Falling Away.' There's nothing to get overly upset about (even though I sometimes am personally shocked by the varied forms of misbehavior) because we know that these things are supposed to happen. The world isn't going to be reformed, nor 'get better.' At least, it won't until the doctor arrives; in the meantime, spiritual sickness will pervade.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Hasn't EVERY generation assumed theirs was the one of the "Falling Away"? And the Apostles thought with evidence from Jesus that their own day was it?

 

[Albion]

For conservatives, how do you respond to this trend? More and more churches are making this move, while pretty much nothing happens on the other side (no progressive church changes direction and decides to ban gay marriage again)....Do conservatives agree with this projection? Do you ever see the trend reversing? How do you respond?

It's not as though there is no consequence for churches that move in the direction of secular values. The Episcopal Church has had five dioceses leave because of it; and the national church continues to lose 1000 members each week, some to Anglican jurisdictions that didn't exist until this trend developed, some to other Christian churches, and many to the alternative of simply staying home on Sunday morning. The condition of the Anglican Church of Canada is, I'm told, even worse.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hasn't EVERY generation assumed theirs was the one of the "Falling Away"? And the Apostles thought with evidence from Jesus that their own day was it?

Not in the way that I do....

 

[FireDragon76]

I love how fundamentalists consign hundreds of millions of us Christians to a false religion and therefore, to perdition. Frankly, if hundreds of millions of people have a false faith because of this one controversy, I would despair for the possibility of salvation for anyone.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I love how fundamentalists consign hundreds of millions of us Christians to a false religion and therefore, to perdition. Frankly, if hundreds of millions of people have a false faith because of this one controversy, I would despair for the possibility of salvation for anyone.

Who is a 'fundamentalist' here, FireD? Not me.

 

[Albion]

And what do Lutherans have to do with the Scottish Episcopal Church?

 

[FireDragon76]

Who is a 'fundamentalist' here, FireD? Not me.

Why are you not a fundamentalist? You've just said there are certain fundamentals of the faith that us poor souls have departed from. Usually, fundamentalists are also polemicist and contrast themselves against the world or modernity. Which is what rejecting things like evolution or homosexuals is about. Certain tribal markers are used to distinguish the in's from the out's. 100 years ago it was evolution, now gay marriage has been added on to that.

 

[Albion]

Why are you not a fundamentalist? You've just said there are certain fundamentals of the faith that us poor souls have departed from. Usually, fundamentalists are also polemicist and contrast themselves against the world or modernity. Which is what rejecting things like evolution or homosexuals is about. Certain tribal markers are used to distinguish the in's from the out's. 100 years ago it was evolution, now gay marriage has been added on to that.

Why don't you familiarize yourself with the meaning of the word by visiting the Fundamentalist Christian forum...and even put your question to those folks there?

 

[FireDragon76]

Why is homosexuality zeroed on as the sign of apostasy... why not usury and moneylending, which the Bible also seems to condemn even moreso?

The truth is that mainline and state churches were declining long before this controversy even happened. All Christianity is declining in the western world. Conservative churches are just declining at a slightly slower pace. And it may be that in this next generation, there is no difference. Young irreligious people especially cite homophobia as one of the major reasons they do not like Christianity.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I love how fundamentalists consign hundreds of millions of us Christians to a false religion and therefore, to perdition. Frankly, if hundreds of millions of people have a false faith because of this one controversy, I would despair for the possibility of salvation for anyone.

Personally, I don't think that the "Falling Away" means that everyone will completely step away form Christ and be condemned to eternal destruction...although it can include a large amount of apostasy that does lead to the loss of eternal life. The time of the "Falling Away" is one characterized by mass confusion brought on by a larges of heretical teachers and their teachings being piled sky-high (like we see with the proliferation on the internet, particularly with Youtube. But, all this has actually been going on for hundreds of years already).

So, even if many Christians today are still going to heaven because they have faith in Jesus, this in itself doesn't protect them here and now from screwing up their lives because of false teaching. And unfortunately, some people, along with various Christians, will become so confused that they will ultimately rebel against Christian faith and God Himself and then place themselves outside of the Grace and Mercy of Jesus in Eternity. Sad, but true. And we can look at Ex-Christian.net to get a taste of that, along with a swarm of things on youtube.

So, again, I'm not personally insinuating here that Christians everywhere are all about to perish....or that I and I alone will remain, righteous and unscathed. No, there is no such clap-trap in my brain...

 

[Albion]

The Anglican Communion may eventually approve of gay marriage as a whole.

That would be an Anglican Communion much reduced in size after perhaps half of its provinces have withdrawn from membership.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Why are you not a fundamentalist? You've just said there are certain fundamentals of the faith that us poor souls have departed from. Usually, fundamentalists are also polemicist and contrast themselves against the world or modernity. Which is what rejecting things like evolution or homosexuals is about. Certain tribal markers are used to distinguish the in's from the out's. 100 years ago it was evolution, now gay marriage has been added on to that.

FD, you're insinuating things about what you think I'm insinuating about others. All I'm doing is pointing out social patterns that apply. I'm not calling out individuals and citing "Aha, you unrighteous scum...scurry the pavement where you belong and come hither no longer...!!!" NO, that is not what I'm doing.

What I'm doing is looking at the historical patterns of the last two thousand years; and when we hit the Renaissance and Enlightenment, we begin to see more massive social patterns take shape that are anti-Christ in nature. Notice, I don't imply that Roman Catholics are apostate because they hold to some teachings I find questionable; I don't insinuate that Orthodox churches are out of touch because they hold to their own in the East; I don't assume that other Protestant groups are out of line because they aren't upholding the faith like "my" denomination does.

No, what I'm implicating here is that when the Falling Away comes (and it is already here), this will include the amassing of false teachings that CAUSE people to deny (and later defy) Christ and His WHOLE church.

 

[FireDragon76]

So are slinging around words like homophobia and fundamentalist just because a person favors the historic faith.

Unfortunately, CF rules do not permit us to have reasonable debates on these matters. Which is too bad, as I want to believe in the free exchange of ideas. [Staff edit].

 

[Wolfe]

I don't have much of a stance on it. The only thing against homosexuality in the Bible regarded homosexual sex, not loving attraction that can't be controlled anyway. Not everyone in relationships just wants sex. If sex is the intent of marriage then it's wrong, but if two people who just want to spend the rest of their lives together then it's okay. I don't think it should really be called "marriage" but maybe more of a "civil union" though.

Aye, the implication that love doesn't exist without sex is absurd.

If it were, if you love a man, then you're in violation, Christ would have some explaining to do.
In any case, if the feeling is romantic, then there is an ere of danger, regarding the possibility of sex, and therefore sin.

But that's the same case with unmarried heterosexual couples, so the real point is; learn self sexual control.
Something more and more people are lacking with each passing day...

 

[FireDragon76]

When I hear "falling away", I think of how the Bible uses the term, as a falling from grace and apostasy. Apostasy is a very serious charge to level against someone. It not only means they are wrong, but that they are lost.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

How do I respond? I simply see these things as yet more evidence of the fulfillment of the time of the 'Falling Away.' There's nothing to get overly upset about (even though I sometimes am personally shocked by the varied forms of misbehavior) because we know that these things are supposed to happen. The world isn't going to be reformed, nor 'get better.' At least, it won't until the doctor arrives; in the meantime, spiritual sickness will pervade.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

This is one thing I don't understand. . why wasn't the death and resurrection of Jesus enough to bring about change and make a difference? Why are things no better than beforein this view, and only going to get worse until Jesus 2.0?
Christians even carry a part of God, the Holy Spirit, around with them....yet that's treated as ineffectual if we assume humanity, including Christians, are simply getting worse.