Yes, false premise. False thoughts. False accusation.When someone refuses to believe it is possible not to sin, when the apostles preach it is, then that is not believing the Word. Not a false accusation at all, just responding to what he didn't believe.
Totally false.
As I have pointed out many times so far (and we both know it) in Romans 3 - Paul uses the term "under the law" to mean "under the condemnation of the law" and in Romans 3 he applies it to the "whole world" and "everyone with a mouth" -- (unless you are now offering us the wild speculation that gentiles don't have mouths -- or that they are not in the world--- is this really where you are going?????)
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
It is a sweeping statement about all mankind (not just Jews) - being "under the law" - which Paul clearly uses to mean "under the condemnation of the LAW as sinners".
And what Law is that? it is the one that defines what sin is - the one that includes the TEN Commandments.
A glaringly obvious bible detail so obvious - that even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholars admit to it.
When a Bible detail is so obvious that BOTH sides admit to it -- well... "it just does not GET any easier than this!!" -- just stating the obvious.
Hi David -
Well first of all it is Romans 3:19-20 ... not just 20
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Indeed. The "Whole world" as the text says ... and "every mouth". All have sinned ... all need the Gospel
Not the wild speculation of "just Jews"
Here again we have such a Bible101 basic detail that even Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the debate admit to this Bible detail.
Just does not GET any easier than this.
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What is more the conclusion about that LAW (that even you admit is including Ex 20) is this "Do we then make VOID the LAW by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31.
Because it is that LAW that Jeremiah says is "written on the heart and mind" in Jeremiah 31:31-33
footnote for future followup , hypothetically perhaps, if recognizing that popes, bishops, priests, pastors, reverends , members , congregants, teachers, sunday school teachers,If we are only not under the condemnation of the law, then that would mean we can break the commandments and not receive any punishment.
Yes, false premise. False thoughts. False accusation.
"You have no idea!" (sorry, the wounds are so much deeper than once thought)
footnote for future followup , hypothetically perhaps, if recognizing that popes, bishops, priests, pastors, reverends , members , congregants, teachers, sunday school teachers,
educators, politicians, doctors, governors, evangelists, prophets, saints, etc etc etc are breaking the commandments every day and
[apparently] do "not receive any punishment.".
How can your church provide reconciliation to YHWH for those anywhere or everywhere who sin every day ?
"You have no idea!"
false accusation - much?
Hello Bob.David - a suggestion.
Instead of always going uphill against not only the Bible texts quoted but ALSO against your own pro-Sunday scholars. How about trying out the other option for one day each week. Full agreement with your own pro-Sunday Bible scholars and the many texts that affirm the TEN Commandments.
Then on the other days -- compare the two-views on this subject.
Exactly, the law was the law, Paul needed to comply because Timothy's mother was Jewish.True - so it is no wonder that in Acts 16:1-5 Paul has Timothy circumcised - but not Titus in Gal 1.
Correct.What is more - in Acts 20 the Jews falsely accuse Paul of telling Jews not to circumcise their children and so Paul goes through great lengths to totally disprove the false accusation made against him.
Hello Bob.
Exactly, the law was the law, Paul needed to comply because Timothy's mother was Jewish.
Correct.
Though Paul would not allow Gentiles to follow the law and be circumcised.
There is nothing in the Bible about Gentiles needing to circumcised -- either OT or NT.
Hello Bob.
I am not going uphill, just ignoring the tradition of men.
It looks to me that I'm the one being attacked by you and Jeff. That is very interesting to me.
Exactly what was my false accusation and against whom? It appears to me you two are falsely accusing me!
Hello Bob.
You need the verses where the apostles tell the Gentiles, that they are under the law.
Hello Bob.
Regarding the verse you quoted (Romans 3:20) and the context of chapter three, what is Paul saying?
For some reason Bob you do not seem to understand what the text is saying.
I will quote these verses from Paul again.
Romans 3 (NASB)
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
What the written law (Exodus 20) states, applies to those 'under the law',
If we are only not under the condemnation of the law, then that would mean we can break the commandments and not receive any punishment.
When someone refuses to believe it is possible not to sin, when the apostles preach it is, then that is not believing the Word.
Those on the list I mentioned are enemies of Christ you say?I wish, I really really wish, you had not named some of the enemies of Christ as if they had repented - whitewashed testimonies, exposed throroughly on the wide open internet for all to read about - their own words and their own teachings (bad fruit, contradicting Scripture) , convicting them (not me nor you nor anyone else convicting them --- their own lives, their own words doing that...) .....
Remember that all that the world exalts and claims praise for , YHWH trashes.
This happens daily, in government, science, religion, social situations, entertainment, education, and finance. (every segment of mankind/ woe-ciety )
We know what sin is because of the Law, without the Law, there is no sin.In the NT - "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.
In the NT - ALL the World - and "every mouth" is "UNDER the LAW" Romans 3:19-20 .. all the world condemned as sinners... all the world needs a Savior. BOTH Jews AND gentiles. The term means "under the condemnation of the LAW" -
And speaking of that SAME law that condemns all the world Paul says "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31
In the NT - being saved by Grace - means keeping the LAW of God - because we have the New Covenant promise with the "LAW written on the heart" Hebrews 8:6-10 unchanged from its OT form in Jer 31:31-33
In the NT - "What matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
In the NT - "there REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4
Thus it is STILL a sin for gentiles to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 even AFTER they become a Christian.
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But back to the OP - the issue clarified there was simply the Bible fact that Saturday is the Bible Sabbath and Sunday is the first day of the week.
There you go, a great pastor, confessing his sin. My pastor would do the same as well. I myself went to a Four Square Church for a dozen years in Hermosa Beach, not such much charismatic but we believed in the spiritual gifts. The best pastors were the ones who honestly confessed their flaws and struggles, a daily task of dying to yourself and dying to your old ways. I don't recall any ever saying it all disappeared at conversion. Spiritually yes, but not in their flesh.I remember when Pastor Jack (Hayford) would tell us of a sin he committed. It would be part of his sermon. He is the most open book I've ever known.
True - but I never claim that the Bible is wrong in that regard.
What I would claim is that no Bible writer says "I have ceased to sin".
Nor does any Bible writer state "you must always sin" or "you can never stop sinning"
Both are true.
I don't know about that. John was pretty clear and I would assume he knew also by experience.
"6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."
Of course, I imagine he was pretty old when he wrote that and had perfected years of overcoming sin. The same with Paul.
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