Scholars on BOTH sides agree - Saturday is the seventh day - the Sabbath of Exodus 20

[1stcenturylady]

All true Christians love our Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. We are ALL thankful but 100% or our lives? I doubt it. God has answered my prayers too and millions of other Christians. That is not because you've somehow earned it, merited it, because you live a perfect sinless life.
But because you are a sinner, God has already forgiven you of this premature false state of perfection you think you are in. What will happen when you get up there is a deliverance from your flesh and then you will experience pure thoughts like never before. You do not have pure thoughts as evidenced in your previous attack on me. Loving your neighbor ... sure you have ... but 100%?

Your experience has shown you that what the word says is not 100% true. I know it is. That's all.

 

[Ronald]

Your experience has shown you that what the word says is not 100% true. I know it is. That's all.

There you go again, twisting words, implying heresy. The WORD is truth. That truth however gets misunderstood. But hey, you are 70, set in your ways ... no way I'm going to turn your purity upside down at this point. Mother Teresa wasn't perfect either, the Pope, Billy Graham or in the charismatic religions, Jack Hayford, none of them. They lived as holy as one could but all of them would admit slipping up here and there and sinning. But they were forgiven, because they would continually ask for it. This is why we need to confess our sins to one another ... except for you of course.

 

[BobRyan]

Deuteronomy 30:6-7 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

Indeed - ONE Gospel in all of time.
"This IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Romans 2
25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Gal 1:6-9 there has only been ONE Gospel in all of time.

Jer 31:31-33 "THIS is the NEW Covenant I will make with the house of Israel.. I will write My Law on their heart and mind..."

 

[BobRyan]

Your experience has shown you that what the word says is not 100% true. I know it is. That's all.

false accusation - much?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Oh my!....

Sorry, but I cannot address the depths of various deceptions at work
to oppose God's Word and God Himself and God's people ....
Only little by little can the truth be posted, and most reject it....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

false accusation - much?

For months gentleness has been needed, since direct confrontation of truth is not accepted. It has been hoped that there would be progress seen, even if just a little,
but instead, with several posters it looks (humanly) like a lost cause , but a cause we cannot press on this forum - they just continue to ignore the Scripture or the message (of truth), since they already have a 'grand'? or other support system in place that they rely on, depend on, and believe - and there's no reason (that they are able to accept) to give them to abandon their support system .....

 

[BobRyan]

For months gentleness has been needed, since direct confrontation of truth is not accepted. It has been hoped that there would be progress seen, even if just a little,
but instead, with several posters it looks (humanly) like a lost cause ,

The fact that everyone who happens to post in opposition to the Ten Commandments does not later affirm that they are written on the heart as God says - under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33... does not mean that no reader of the thread has ever been open to conviction on that Bible detail.

Everyone has free will - they can choose for themselves - but they cannot choose for the host of silent readers who are convicted by the evidence of scripture none-the-less.

As I post - this thread has 857 views and 147 posts. So that is not "just you and me".. thankfully!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The fact that everyone who happens to post in opposition to the Ten Commandments does not later affirm that they are written on the heart as God says - under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33... does not mean that no reader of the thread has ever been open to conviction on that Bible detail.

Amein - it is often the 'quiet' ones for whom YHWH means His Word to be posted, and not the objectors who may or may not ever change.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There you go again, twisting words, implying heresy. The WORD is truth. That truth however gets misunderstood. But hey, you are 70, set in your ways ... no way I'm going to turn your purity upside down at this point. Mother Teresa wasn't perfect either, the Pope, Billy Graham or in the charismatic religions, Jack Hayford, none of them. They lived as holy as one could but all of them would admit slipping up here and there and sinning. But they were forgiven, because they would continually ask for it. This is why we need to confess our sins to one another ... except for you of course.

I wish, I really really wish, you had not named some of the enemies of Christ as if they had repented - whitewashed testimonies, exposed throroughly on the wide open internet for all to read about - their own words and their own teachings (bad fruit, contradicting Scripture) , convicting them (not me nor you nor anyone else convicting them --- their own lives, their own words doing that...) .....

Remember that all that the world exalts and claims praise for , YHWH trashes.
This happens daily, in government, science, religion, social situations, entertainment, education, and finance. (every segment of mankind/ woe-ciety )

 

[Ronald]

Back to the OP, Simply, we aren't under the Law, we are under Grace. The first five books are considered the Law, which was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles.
"For when the Gentiles, who do not have the Law ..." Rom. 2:14, 15
"But now the righteousness of God, apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets ..." Rom. 3:21, 22
" You foolish Galatians ... did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
"Therefore, the Law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Gal 3:24, 25
"Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10
Judaisers were trying to force Gentile Christians to get circumcised which was wrong.
By telling us we must keep the Sabbath (which includes 250+ laws) that is also putting a yoke on our necks that God did not intend to.

 

[BobRyan]

Back to the OP, Simply, we aren't under the Law, we are under Grace.

In the NT - "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

In the NT - ALL the World - and "every mouth" is "UNDER the LAW" Romans 3:19-20 .. all the world condemned as sinners... all the world needs a Savior. BOTH Jews AND gentiles. The term means "under the condemnation of the LAW" -

And speaking of that SAME law that condemns all the world Paul says "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

In the NT - being saved by Grace - means keeping the LAW of God - because we have the New Covenant promise with the "LAW written on the heart" Hebrews 8:6-10 unchanged from its OT form in Jer 31:31-33

In the NT - "What matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
In the NT - "there REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4

Thus it is STILL a sin for gentiles to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 even AFTER they become a Christian.

=====================================

But back to the OP - the issue clarified there was simply the Bible fact that Saturday is the Bible Sabbath and Sunday is the first day of the week.

 

[klutedavid]

Totally false.

As I have pointed out many times so far (and we both know it) in Romans 3 - Paul uses the term "under the law" to mean "under the condemnation of the law" and in Romans 3 he applies it to the "whole world" and "everyone with a mouth" -- (unless you are now offering us the wild speculation that gentiles don't have mouths -- or that they are not in the world--- is this really where you are going?????)

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

It is a sweeping statement about all mankind (not just Jews) - being "under the law" - which Paul clearly uses to mean "under the condemnation of the LAW as sinners".

And what Law is that? it is the one that defines what sin is - the one that includes the TEN Commandments.

A glaringly obvious bible detail so obvious - that even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholars admit to it.

When a Bible detail is so obvious that BOTH sides admit to it -- well... "it just does not GET any easier than this!!" -- just stating the obvious.

Hello Bob.

Regarding the verse you quoted (Romans 3:20) and the context of chapter three, what is Paul saying?

You stated.

As I have pointed out many times so far (and we both know it) in Romans 3 - Paul uses the term "under the law" to mean "under the condemnation of the law" and in Romans 3 he applies it to the "whole world" and "everyone with a mouth" -- (unless you are now offering us the wild speculation that gentiles don't have mouths -- or that they are not in the world--- is this really where you are going?????)

One question mark is ample.

For some reason Bob you do not seem to understand what the text is saying.

I will quote these verses from Paul again.

Romans 3 (NASB)
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

What the written law (Exodus 20) states, applies to those 'under the law', i.e., Israel, this we know. We have the Hebrew Old Testament which tells us exactly who was under the law.

The Jews failed to obey the law, this then means automatically, that all mankind displays the same behavior as the Jews, which is sin. This verse is not saying that Gentiles were under the written law, that is a monstrous mistake to make. This is precisely where your church follows the error of earlier churches.

Read the text properly Bob, the phrase, 'under the law', means those who had the written law. The Old Testament was written in the Hebrew language, Bob, not in the Greek or any other language. The Gentiles did not even have a copy of the written law, only the Jews were under the law.

So how come the Old Testament is written in Hebrew and not in other languages, Bob?

Given that you assume the Gentiles already had the entire law of Moses!

 

[klutedavid]

Indeed - ONE Gospel in all of time.
"This IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Romans 2
25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Gal 1:6-9 there has only been ONE Gospel in all of time.

Jer 31:31-33 "THIS is the NEW Covenant I will make with the house of Israel.. I will write My Law on their heart and mind..."

Hello Bob.

I was reading your post, you quoted, 'I will write My Law on their heart and mind'.
The Hebrew actually states, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts. A slight difference between the translation your using and what the Hebrew really states. So I would not jump to a translation that states, 'and mind', the safer translation is, 'inward parts'.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

I was reading your post, you quoted, 'I will write My Law on their heart and mind'.
The Hebrew actually states, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts. A slight difference between the translation your using

Appears to be a "distinction without a difference".

Some translations say "mind and heart" and others "inward parts and heart"

In modern usage is makes more sense to say heart, and mind rather then kidneys or bowels

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

You need the verses where the apostles tell the Gentiles, that they are under the law.

Totally false.

As I have pointed out many times so far (and we both know it) in Romans 3 - Paul uses the term "under the law" to mean "under the condemnation of the law" and in Romans 3 he applies it to the "whole world" and "everyone with a mouth" -- (unless you are now offering us the wild speculation that gentiles don't have mouths -- or that they are not in the world--- is this really where you are going?????)

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

It is a sweeping statement about all mankind (not just Jews) - being "under the law" - which Paul clearly uses to mean "under the condemnation of the LAW as sinners".

And what Law is that? it is the one that defines what sin is - the one that includes the TEN Commandments.

A glaringly obvious bible detail so obvious - that even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholars admit to it.

When a Bible detail is so obvious that BOTH sides admit to it -- well... "it just does not GET any easier than this!!" -- just stating the obvious.

Hello Bob.
Regarding the verse you quoted (Romans 3:20) and the context of chapter three, what is Paul saying?

Hi David -

Well first of all it is Romans 3:19-20 ... not just 20

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

For some reason Bob you do not seem to understand what the text is saying.
I will quote these verses from Paul again.

Romans 3 (NASB)
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

What the written law (Exodus 20) states, applies to those 'under the law',

Indeed. The "Whole world" as the text says ... and "every mouth". All have sinned ... all need the Gospel

Not the wild speculation of "just Jews"

Here again we have such a Bible101 basic detail that even Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the debate admit to this Bible detail.

Just does not GET any easier than this.

===================

What is more the conclusion about that LAW (that even you admit is including Ex 20) is this "Do we then make VOID the LAW by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31.

Because it is that LAW that Jeremiah says is "written on the heart and mind" in Jeremiah 31:31-33

 

[klutedavid]

In the NT - "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

In the NT - ALL the World - and "every mouth" is "UNDER the LAW" Romans 3:19-20 .. all the world condemned as sinners... all the world needs a Savior. BOTH Jews AND gentiles. The term means "under the condemnation of the LAW" -

And speaking of that SAME law that condemns all the world Paul says "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

In the NT - being saved by Grace - means keeping the LAW of God - because we have the New Covenant promise with the "LAW written on the heart" Hebrews 8:6-10 unchanged from its OT form in Jer 31:31-33

In the NT - "What matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
In the NT - "there REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4

Thus it is STILL a sin for gentiles to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 even AFTER they become a Christian.

=====================================

But back to the OP - the issue clarified there was simply the Bible fact that Saturday is the Bible Sabbath and Sunday is the first day of the week.

Hello Bob.

You stated the following.

Thus it is STILL a sin for gentiles to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 even AFTER they become a Christian.

According to you, taking God's name in vain, Exodus 20:7, was a command that the Gentiles had before Christ even arrived. Just check the literature of the Gentile nations and you will find the ten commandments everywhere?

 

[BobRyan]

The Jews failed to obey the law, this then means automatically, that all mankind displays the same behavior as the Jews, which is sin.

We both know that the Bible does not teach "since the Jews have sinned - then all mankind has sinned and should be condemned".

Rather in Romans 3 "through the LAW of God comes the knowledge of what sin is" - conviction that each person has sinned.. all the world... every mouth shut and held accountable before God for ALL have sinned.

 

[BobRyan]

According to you, taking God's name in vain, Exodus 20:7, was a command that the Gentiles had before Christ even arrived. Just check the literature of the Gentile nations and you will find the ten commandments everywhere?

just check the Christian literature - Genesis 8 Noah is the father of all Jews and gentiles -- did God tell Noah it was ok for him to take God's name in vain?

Bible 101 .. you can find it in places like the Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19, and the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19 and a great many other places.

So then.. taking God's name in vain is a sin.. even for gentiles.

BTW Jesus never says "Gentiles - you no longer can take God's name in vain with that being a sin" as we both know.

 

[klutedavid]

Appears to be a "distinction without a difference".

Some translations say "mind and heart" and others "inward parts and heart"

In modern usage is makes more sense to say heart, and mind rather then kidneys or bowels

Hello Bob.

The Hebrew word is not the English word for 'mind', so 'inward parts' is a better translation.

 

[klutedavid]

We both know that the Bible does not teach that since the Jews sinned - then all mankind has sinned and should be condemned.

Hello Bob.

The Jews had the law, and the Jews had the covenants, and the Jews knew God.

The Gentiles did not have the law, the Gentiles were not circumcised, and the Gentiles were ignorant of God. The entire New Testament announces this truth, why do you resist the truth?