Scholars on BOTH sides agree - Saturday is the seventh day - the Sabbath of Exodus 20

BobRyan

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David - a suggestion.

Instead of always going uphill against not only the Bible texts quoted but ALSO against your own pro-Sunday scholars. How about trying out the other option for one day each week. Full agreement with your own pro-Sunday Bible scholars and the many texts that affirm the TEN Commandments.

Then on the other days -- compare the two-views on this subject.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Back to the OP, Simply, we aren't under the Law, we are under Grace. The first five books are considered the Law, which was given to the Jews, not the Gentiles.
"For when the Gentiles, who do not have the Law ..." Rom. 2:14, 15
"But now the righteousness of God, apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets ..." Rom. 3:21, 22
" You foolish Galatians ... did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
"Therefore, the Law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." Gal 3:24, 25
"Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10
Judaisers were trying to force Gentile Christians to get circumcised which was wrong.
By telling us we must keep the Sabbath (which includes 250+ laws) that is also putting a yoke on our necks that God did not intend to.
Ooops, common mistake.

Grace , God's Grace, doesn't condone sin.

Look all through God's Word - He never condones sin.

You don't have to be under the law - nor over it - nor opposed to it.

Or do you want to be found opposed to Jesus, do you want to be lawless?

Look up lawless, the lawless one, in God's Word.

It does not go well, it does not end well, for those who are lawless.
 
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klutedavid

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We both know that the Bible does not teach "since the Jews have sinned - then all mankind has sinned and should be condemned".

Rather in Romans 3 "through the LAW of God comes the knowledge of what sin is" - conviction that each person has sinned.. all the world... every mouth shut and held accountable before God for ALL have sinned.
Hello Bob.

Apparently you have been taught differently, the Jews had the law of Moses, the Gentiles never had the law of Moses.

The Jews had clean and unclean animals, the Gentiles knew not the law.
 
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BobRyan

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Hello Bob.

The Hebrew word is not the English word for 'mind', so 'inward parts' is a better translation.

You are free to use that - but my guess is that you would agree that the mind is an inward part - and not an outward one ( like the eye or the ear are outward)
 
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klutedavid

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David - a suggestion.

Instead of always going uphill against not only the Bible texts quoted but ALSO against your own pro-Sunday scholars. How about trying out the other option for one day each week. Full agreement with your own pro-Sunday Bible scholars and the many texts that affirm the TEN Commandments.

Then on the other days -- compare the two-views on this subject.
Hello Bob.

Your trying to teach an inferior interpretation of the text, you teach that Gentiles had the law before the Jews even received the law.
 
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BobRyan

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Hello Bob.

The Jews had the law, and the Jews had the covenants, and the Jews knew God.

The Gentiles did not have the law, the Gentiles were not circumcised, and the Gentiles were ignorant of God. The entire New Testament announces this truth, why do you resist the truth?

Acts 18:4 BOTH Gentiles AND Jews in the synagogue "every Sabbath" hearing Gospel preaching.
Acts 13 BOTH Jews and gentiles in the synagogues hearing scripture - even before Paul gets there.

So yes - lots of gentile pagans. But not all gentiles were pagans.

But in Romans 3:19 it is ALL the WORLD condemned by the LAW of God as sinners.

Romans 3:23 "ALL have sinned" -- not "just Jews"
 
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klutedavid

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You are free to use that - but my guess is that you would agree that the mind is an inward part - and not an outward one ( like the eye or the ear are outward)
Hello Bob.

Just stick to what the text says, rather than making assumptions about what the text might be inferring.
 
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BobRyan

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Hello Bob.

Your trying to teach an inferior interpretation of the text, you teach that Gentiles had the law before the Jews even received the law.

Abraham kept God's LAWs commandments statutes Genes 26:5.

And Noah EVEN BEFORE that ...

hard to find a gentile these days that did not descend from Noah's family.

Romans reminds us that the WHOLE WORLD is "under the LAW" - as sinners condemned by the LAW of God. "Every Mouth". Romans 3:19-20
 
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klutedavid

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Acts 18:4 BOTH Gentiles AND Jews in the synagogue "every Sabbath" hearing Gospel preaching.
Acts 13 BOTH Jews and gentiles in the synagogues hearing scripture - even before Paul gets there.

So yes - lots of gentile pagans. But not all gentiles were pagans.

But in Romans 3:19 it is ALL the WORLD condemned by the LAW of God as sinners.

Romans 3:23 "ALL have sinned" -- not "just Jews"
Hello Bob.

In the early years there was no where else to go, but to a synagogue. Later in Acts we find the Gentiles have there own churches, what happened?
 
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BobRyan

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The Gentiles did not have the law, the Gentiles were not circumcised,

Gentiles were never supposed to be circumcised - OT or NT
Noah is the father of the gentiles -- and the Jews.
 
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BobRyan

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Hello Bob.

In the early years there was no where else to go, but to a synagogue. Later in Acts we find the Gentiles have there own churches, what happened?

I am a gentile - I attend Sabbath services in a church - not a synagogue
 
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klutedavid

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Abraham kept God's LAWs commandments statutes Genes 26:5.

And Noah EVEN BEFORE that ...

hard to find a gentile these days that did not descend from Noah's family.
Hello Bob.

The Genesis text obviously was written after the Exodus events.

I can assure you that Abraham had no ordinances or statutes, to follow.

Paul tells you that the law came after Abraham.

Galatians 3:17
What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later.

Read the text, the law came later, Abraham was not under the law.
 
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klutedavid

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Gentiles were never supposed to be circumcised - OT or NT
Noah is the father of the gentiles -- and the Jews.
Hello Bob.

All descendants of Abraham must be circumcised.

All male Jews must be circumcised, the law tells you this.

Transgression of the law is sin.

Any male Jew that is not circumcised has broken the covenant and will be evicted from Israel.

There is no leeway on these points, God has spoken.
 
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BobRyan

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Hello Bob.

All descendants of Abraham must be circumcised.

All male Jews must be circumcised, the law tells you this.

Transgression of the law is sin.

Any male Jew that is not circumcised has broken the covenant and will be evicted from Israel.

True - so it is no wonder that in Acts 16:1-5 Paul has Timothy circumcised - but not Titus in Gal 1.
What is more - in Acts 20 the Jews falsely accuse Paul of telling Jews not to circumcise their children and so Paul goes through great lengths to totally disprove the false accusation made against him.

As we both know.

There is nothing in the Bible about Gentiles needing to circumcised -- either OT or NT.
 
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BobRyan

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Hello Bob.
The Genesis text obviously was written after the Exodus events.

Agreed.

I can assure you that Abraham had no ordinances or statutes, to follow.

That would be "you" quoting "you".

Now what did God Himself say about that - to Isaac.. regarding Abraham?

Genesis 26: "Abraham obeyed Me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions." That is God Himself speaking to Isaac as Moses reminds us.

Your own pro-Sunday scholars will admit this. The Bible says it. There is no point in being in opposition to the obvious points where BOTH sides agree. Because "this is the EASY part".


Paul tells you that the written LAW -- written on tablets of stone - came after Abraham.

Galatians 3:17
What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later.

Paul does NOT say "it was ok to murder before Sinai" -- in fact it was not even ok to "take God's name in vain" before Sinai.

Read the text, Genesis 26: "Abraham obeyed Me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions." That is God Himself speaking to Isaac as Moses reminds us.
 
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BobRyan

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Hello Bob.

Your trying to teach an inferior interpretation of the text, you teach that Gentiles had the law before the Jews even received the law.

Abraham kept God's LAWs commandments statutes Genes 26:5.

And Noah EVEN BEFORE that ...

hard to find a gentile these days that did not descend from Noah's family.

Romans reminds us that the WHOLE WORLD is "under the LAW" - as sinners condemned by the LAW of God. "Every Mouth". Romans 3:19-20

=========== what do gentiles know??
Acts 18:4 BOTH Gentiles AND Jews in the synagogue "every Sabbath" hearing Gospel preaching.
Acts 13 BOTH Jews and gentiles in the synagogues hearing scripture - even before Paul gets there.

So yes - lots of gentile pagans. But not all gentiles were pagans.
But in Romans 3:19 it is ALL the WORLD condemned by the LAW of God as sinners. not "just Jews"

Romans 3:23 "ALL have sinned" -- not "just Jews"

Romans 1 - even pagans know the LAW of God -

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
..
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Romans 2
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

=================

1. The Bible says it.
2. your own pro-Sunday scholars admit to it.
3. It just does not get any easier than this. BOTH sides see it clearly.
 
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1stcenturylady

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There you go again, twisting words, implying heresy. The WORD is truth. That truth however gets misunderstood. But hey, you are 70, set in your ways ... no way I'm going to turn your purity upside down at this point. Mother Teresa wasn't perfect either, the Pope, Billy Graham or in the charismatic religions, Jack Hayford, none of them. They lived as holy as one could but all of them would admit slipping up here and there and sinning. But they were forgiven, because they would continually ask for it. This is why we need to confess our sins to one another ... except for you of course.

I remember when Pastor Jack (Hayford) would tell us of a sin he committed. It would be part of his sermon. He is the most open book I've ever known.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Sorry, but I cannot address the depths of various deceptions at work
to oppose God's Word and God Himself and God's people ....
Only little by little can the truth be posted, and most reject it....

You have no idea!
 
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1stcenturylady

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false accusation - much?

When someone refuses to believe it is possible not to sin, when the apostles preach it is, then that is not believing the Word. Not a false accusation at all, just responding to what he didn't believe.
 
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