Scholars on BOTH sides agree - Saturday is the seventh day - the Sabbath of Exodus 20

[1stcenturylady]

I don't know about that. We aren't really told what it is but I tend to think it was a physical ailment of some kind.

It is a Hebrew idiom. Like someone being a pain in the neck.

Judges 2: Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this? 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’” 4 So it was, when the Angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.
Interesting statement.
The new moon day is the first day of the Jewish month,

But it is never called "The first day of the week".

Weekly cycle does not change every month either in the Jewish Calendar or in the Gregorian one.

This is irrefutable. Thus "Saturday is the 7th day Sabbath of Exodus 20:11 and of the Gospels".

The point remains.

Hence, in the Jewish monthly calendar the Sabbath occurs on the 8th day of every month.

Totally false -- you are simply "quoting you"

Jews today will gladly help you out on that.

 

[BobRyan]

Did we ever find even one person on this thread making a case that some other day of the week is the one on which manna did not fall in Exodus 20 or is the one on which Christ and the other Jews in the Gospels kept as the Sabbath OR That Christ was resurrected on Tuesday or Wednesday or ... as the actual first day of the week not being our Sunday?

So far -- looks like "zero" lining up for that opposition to the OP.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Did we ever find even one person on this thread making a case that some other day of the week is the one on which manna did not fall in Exodus 20 or is the one on which Christ and the other Jews in the Gospels kept as the Sabbath OR That Christ was resurrected on Tuesday or Wednesday or ... as the actual first day of the week not being our Sunday?

So far -- looks like "zero" lining up for that opposition to the OP.

No one who knows the Bible can say that what happened in the Old Covenant called the law of sin and death didn't happen. But some on here haven't a clue about the New Covenant of the law of the Spirit of life in Christ and what that really means. Until one has been baptized by fire they will remain clueless and exhibit no love. They will remain under the law of sin and death, and try to teach others to do likewise.

The Sabbath was never meant to be an idol to be worshiped. It was to represent the rest we would eventually find in the true meaning of the Sabbath, Jesus. And when the light is turned on, the shadows disappear.

 

[BobRyan]

No one who knows the Bible can say that what happened in the Old Covenant called the law of sin .

hint: scripture is never called "The law of sin" - not even in Romans 7.


21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul says that in his flesh HE SERVES the LAW of sin. He is obedient to the LAW of SIN. which is EVIL - that is at WAR against the LAW of God.

Now lets go to Matt 17 - Moses and Elijah standing WITH Christ in glory -

Question: Since this is before the cross are they servants of sin, servants of the law of sin - the law opposed to "The LAW of God"???

We all know what the answer is -- the contrast in Romans 7 is between the sinful nature - vs - the LAW of God that is "Holy just and good".

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
..
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I guess we all know that a new thread is about to start.

 

[1stcenturylady]

hint: scripture is never called "The law of sin" - not even in Romans 7.


21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul says that in his flesh HE SERVES the LAW of sin. He is obedient to the LAW of SIN. which is EVIL - that is at WAR against the LAW of God.

Now lets go to Matt 17 - Moses and Elijah standing WITH Christ in glory -

Question: Since this is before the cross are they servants of sin, servants of the law of sin - the law opposed to "The LAW of God"???

We all know what the answer is -- the contrast in Romans 7 is between the sinful nature - vs - the LAW of God that is "Holy just and good".

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
..
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I guess we all know that a new thread is about to start.

Law of sin and death, not the law of sin. You lied.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is a Hebrew idiom. Like someone being a pain in the neck.

Judges 2: Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this? 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’” 4 So it was, when the Angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept.

I don't know. Paul was constantly opposed by the judaizers who wanted to kill him, I just don't think Paul would be afraid of anything in this world. Plus there is talk of his having physical issues, I think Luke speaks of it in Acts.

 

[BobRyan]

Law of sin and death, not the law of sin. .

An oxymoron.

Law of sin,,and of death, and of destruction,, and of rebellion and of .... add all you want to it.. It is the sinful nature.

 

[ToBeLoved]

hint: scripture is never called "The law of sin" - not even in Romans 7.


21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul says that in his flesh HE SERVES the LAW of sin. He is obedient to the LAW of SIN. which is EVIL - that is at WAR against the LAW of God.

Now lets go to Matt 17 - Moses and Elijah standing WITH Christ in glory -

Question: Since this is before the cross are they servants of sin, servants of the law of sin - the law opposed to "The LAW of God"???

We all know what the answer is -- the contrast in Romans 7 is between the sinful nature - vs - the LAW of God that is "Holy just and good".

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
..
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I guess we all know that a new thread is about to start.

What is your point with this post? I think I'm lost.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I don't know. Paul was constantly opposed by the judaizers who wanted to kill him, I just don't think Paul would be afraid of anything in this world. Plus there is talk of his having physical issues, I think Luke speaks of it in Acts.

Yes, Paul had physical issues, but he was also old. Paul wasn't afraid of them, but he was worried about his converts, and the Judaizers pressuring them. They were a pain... God didn't want Paul to give up, even though the false teachers would never go away. God's grace/strength kept him going.

We have a responsibility to know the Word so well, no false teacher can sway us. The light of the Word betrays them. I certainly have had my share of enemies on here. Most don't hurt, except the ones I thought were my friends. They are a pain in my heart.

 

[ToBeLoved]

But some on here haven't a clue about the New Covenant of the law of the Spirit of life in Christ and what that really means. Until one has been baptized by fire they will remain clueless and exhibit no love. They will remain under the law of sin and death, and try to teach others to do likewise.

The Sabbath was never meant to be an idol to be worshiped. It was to represent the rest we would eventually find in the true meaning of the Sabbath, Jesus. And when the light is turned on, the shadows disappear.

Great word there. Shadows.

The entire Old Testament is a shadow to Christ.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, Paul had physical issues, but he was also old. Paul wasn't afraid of them, but he was worried about his converts, and the Judaizers pressuring them. They were a pain... God didn't want Paul to give up, even though the false teachers would never go away. God's grace/strength kept him going.

We have a responsibility to know the Word so well, no false teacher can sway us. The light of the Word betrays them. I certainly have had my share of enemies on here. Most don't hurt, except the ones I thought were my friends. They are a pain in my heart.

So I guess what I want to know is this.

What Biblical proof is there that the "thorn in his side" for Paul was not a physical ailment?

Because you said that it was not.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Great word there. Shadows.

The entire Old Testament is a shadow to Christ.

Yes, I like how Chuck Missler puts it. Jesus is concealed in the Old Testament, and revealed in the New.

 

[1stcenturylady]

So I guess what I want to know is this.

What Biblical proof is there that the "thorn in his side" for Paul was not a physical ailment?

Because you said that it was not.

I meant that even though Paul had physical ailments, "thorn in the flesh" was just a saying, just as we say someone is a pain in the neck. They don't have to be touching you to be one. Remember, they were called "messengers of Satan." Who would that describe? I believe false teachers trying to thwart the gospel, Paul's foremost mission.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I meant that even though Paul had physical ailments, "thorn in the flesh" was just a saying, just as we say someone is a pain in the neck. They don't have to be touching you to be one. Remember, they were called "messengers of Satan." Who would that describe? I believe false teachers trying to thwart the gospel, Paul's foremost mission.

But show me that when Paul specifically used it that it is just a saying. In the Bible. Because Paul was very thorough and I don't think it is a saying at all. I think it is a physical ailment that made it very hard for Paul to do his three missionary journey's.

 

[1stcenturylady]

So I guess what I want to know is this.

What Biblical proof is there that the "thorn in his side" for Paul was not a physical ailment?

Because you said that it was not.

Just read Galatians. " This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?"

 

[1stcenturylady]

But show me that when Paul specifically used it that it is just a saying. In the Bible. Because Paul was very thorough and I don't think it is a saying at all. I think it is a physical ailment that made it very hard for Paul to do his three missionary journey's.

Oh, okay. Judges 2:Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this? 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’” 4 So it was, when the Angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept.

The Septuagint uses the explanation, "enemies to you."

Paul had enemies, and I can just see Paul praying to God to remove them, or to remove their power to deceive. That should be comfort to us. That even during trials, God is with us.

If it was an illness that Paul was speaking about, what spiritual truth do you see? Some use it that healing is not for today and use that verse. I don't believe God stopped healing. Why Paul's eyesight was bad, or why Kathryn Kuhlman died of an illness after God used both of them so many times is a mystery to me.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Just read Galatians. " This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?"

That is about being saved, not the thorn that Paul had to bare.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Oh, okay. Judges 2:Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this? 3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’” 4 So it was, when the Angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept.

The Septuagint uses the explanation, "enemies to you."

Paul had enemies, and I can just see Paul praying to God to remove them, or to remove their power to deceive. That should be comfort to us. That even during trials, God is with us.

If it was an illness that Paul was speaking about, what spiritual truth do you see? Some use it that healing is not for today and use that verse. I don't believe God stopped healing. Why Paul's eyesight was bad, or why Kathryn Kuhlman died of an illness after God used both of them so many times is a mystery to me.

I don't think it is enemies at all. I think it is a physical ailment and this verse in judges shows that maybe in that instance it meant that, but that does not show or prove to me in any way that it is what Paul meant or was going through.

But it's really not crucial so we don't need to discuss it really. I was more curious.

 

[1stcenturylady]

That is about being saved, not the thorn that Paul had to bare.

It was his ministry. The Galatians started by walking in the Spirit, but then Judaizers came and told them they also had to be circumsized, and observe the Sabbath, etc.