Savior of the World, or Eternal Failure?

[ClementofA]

Is this supposed to be as gotcha post? What is your point? UR-ites, usually with zero knowledge of Greek, claim "kolasis" in Mat 25:46 means NOT "punishment," as in KJV, NIV, ASV etc., but "correction."

I've already addressed the subject of the word kolasis here:

Are You of Israel?

Still waiting for your reply.

I showed from 1 Jn 4:18 that "kolasis" does NOT mean "correction" since in 1 Jn 4:18 the one who has fear has "kolasis" but is not corrected i.e. "not made perfect."

So according to you a teenager who is "not made perfect" cannot be corrected? Does that about sum up the type of logic of the argument you are making here?

Was the sinning man in 1 Cor.5:5 "not made perfect"? Yes. Was he being corrected? Yes. So that proves that one "not made perfect" can be corrected. Likewise re those referred to in 1 Tim.1:19-20. Your argument is refuted.

213 Questions Without Answers:
Questions Without Answers

 

[Der Alte]

I've already addressed the subject of the word kolasis here:

Different thread, different posters. If you have a cogent response post it here so folks don't have to link to another thread.
But so far your responses are copy/paste, copy/paste, link, "your interpretation is wrong here are some more literal versions." repeat.

So according to you a teenager who is "not made perfect" cannot be corrected? Does that about sum up the type of logic of the argument you are making here?

Here is a novel idea you might try, respond to what I actually said. If you don't understand ask me for clarification of what I actually said not some concocted example trying to trip me up.

Was the sinning man in 1 Cor.5:5 "not made perfect"? Yes. Was he being corrected? Yes. So that proves that one "not made perfect" can be corrected. Likewise re those referred to in 1 Tim.1:19-20. Your argument is refuted.

Nothing is refuted. See novel idea above. According to UT-ites "kolasis" in Matthew 25:45 does not mean "destruction" but means "correction." Forget all this other smoke screen nonsense. Here is the only relevant question does the same word, κολασιν/kolasin in 1 John 4:18 mean correction or not?

 

[ClementofA]

Here is a novel idea you might try, respond to what I actually said. If you don't understand ask me for clarification of what I actually said not some concocted example trying to trip me up.

The example i gave was in the form of a question for that very purpose, i.e. "clarification". Yet you still have failed to clarify. Or address why the example i gave doesn't apply to your remark.

Nothing is refuted.

How so? What didn't you understand about my refutation of your illogical remark?

Deny, deny, deny. The child with chocalate cake on her face answered "No, Daddy, i haven't been eating chocolate cake".

Here is the only relevant question does same word κολασιν/kolasin in 1 John 4:18 mean correction or not?

You already answered that & your answer was wrong:

I showed from 1 Jn 4:18 that "kolasis" does NOT mean "correction" since in 1 Jn 4:18 the one who has fear has "kolasis" but is not corrected i.e. "not made perfect."

So according to you a teenager who is "not made perfect" cannot be corrected? Does that about sum up the type of logic of the argument you are making here?

Was the sinning man in 1 Cor.5:5 "not made perfect"? Yes. Was he being corrected? Yes. So that proves that one "not made perfect" can be corrected. Likewise re those referred to in 1 Tim.1:19-20. Your argument is refuted.

 

[nolidad]

Noli: Your scope is one of potential. God is the Saviour of all mankind: your grasp = God is the potential Saviour of some of mankind.

There is precisely one Scripture using the word "limited."

YOU have limited the Holy One of Israel !

Wrong again Fine Linen! I know Jesus is the Savior of all mankind! He ruled out any other means of salvation by His death and REsurrection. and for one to benefit from His death and resurrection as the Scriptures declare- One in this lifetime has to trust Him! Otherwise-Judgment!

I do not limit God. God limited HImsefl!

 

[agapelove]

Is this supposed to be as gotcha post? What is your point? UR-ites, usually with zero knowledge of Greek, claim "kolasis" in Mat 25:46 means NOT "punishment," as in KJV, NIV, ASV etc., but "correction."
I showed from 1 Jn 4:18 that "kolasis" does NOT mean "correction" since in 1 Jn 4:18 the one who has fear has "kolasis" but is not corrected i.e. "not made perfect."

It was not suppose to be a "gotcha" post but maybe you feel got because your 1 Jn 4:18 argument is punctured. Your try-hard statements do nothing to disprove the rehabilitative nature of kolasin.

NIV: There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Fear involves correction, chastisement. The one who is not perfect in love, needs correction, chastisement. LOVE loves unto PERFECTION. All that is imperfect in us, will be destroyed by the consuming fire, until we are perfected in love.

 

[nolidad]

Whatever a "herwtical" scholar is I will never know.

I do know that the "gang of four" is somewhat larger (on C.F.) your poor math calculation has been able to compute.

I also know the Master of Reconciliation, the Lord Jesus Christ
never adopted the language of His day regarding punishment.

Their language was aidios timοria , endless torment.

His language was aionion kolasin , age-lasting correction.

“αιδιος τιμωρια” and “αιωνιον κολασιν”, although the usual word for “torment” is “βασανισμος”. This word is found five times in the NT, all in the book of Revelation:

Rev. 9:5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.

Rev. 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Rev 18:7 "To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.’

Rev. 18:10 standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’

Rev. 18:15 "The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment weeping and mourning…

However, the word “τιμωρια” occurs only once in the NT— in the book of Hebrews:

Heb 10:29 How much severer punishment (τιμωρια) do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Well then you accpet that life in heaven is temporary! For Jesus never used the words aidios zoe: eternal life! But He used aionios zoe- age during life! Sorry you think that you are only going to kick around heaven for an age!

Well I am gone for a weeks blessing to be with my son, his wife and three of my 8 precious grandchildren.

 

[Der Alte]

The example i gave was in the form of a question for that very purpose, i.e. "clarification". Yet you still have failed to clarify. Or address why the example i gave doesn't apply to your remark.
How so? What didn't you understand about my refutation of your illogical remark?
Deny, deny, deny. The child with chocalate cake on her face answered "No, Daddy, i haven't been eating chocolate cake".
You already answered that & your answer was wrong:
So according to you a teenager who is "not made perfect" cannot be corrected? Does that about sum up the type of logic of the argument you are making here?
Was the sinning man in 1 Cor.5:5 "not made perfect"? Yes. Was he being corrected? Yes. So that proves that one "not made perfect" can be corrected. Likewise re those referred to in 1 Tim.1:19-20. Your argument is refuted.

Your question about a teenager is an irrelevant smokescreen. I neither stated nor implied anything, about anybody, at any time, being/not being corrected.
The word "kolasis" does not occur in 1 Tim 1:19-20 therefore this verse is not relevant to my point.
My post only concerned the meaning of the word "kolasis," in the NT.
Is there anything in the NT which gives us the meaning of "kolasis?"
If there is something in the NT which gives us the meaning of "kolasis" does that meaning also apply to the word "kolasis" in another verse?
Or does the word "kolasis" have one meaning in one verse and a different meaning in another verse?
Anything else is irrelevant.

 

[Der Alte]

It was not suppose to be a "gotcha" post but maybe you feel got because your 1 Jn 4:18 argument is punctured. Your try-hard statements do nothing to disprove the rehabilitative nature of kolasin.
NIV: There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
Fear involves correction, chastisement. The one who is not perfect in love, needs correction, chastisement. LOVE loves unto PERFECTION. All that is imperfect in us, will be destroyed by the consuming fire, until we are perfected in love.

My post only concerned the meaning of the word "kolasis," in the NT.
Is there anything in the NT which gives us the meaning of "kolasis?"
If there is something in the NT which gives us the meaning of "kolasis" does that meaning also apply to the word "kolasis" in another verse?
Or does the word "kolasis" have one meaning in one verse and a different meaning in another verse?
Anything else is irrelevant.

 

[ClementofA]

I neither stated nor implied anything, about anybody, at any time, being/not being corrected.

Here is what you said with both the words "corrected" and "correction" used by you in reference to somebody who has fear:

I showed from 1 Jn 4:18 that "kolasis" does NOT mean "correction" since in 1 Jn 4:18 the one who has fear has "kolasis" but is not corrected i.e. "not made perfect."

There you equate "not corrected" with "not made perfect". You argue that since the one who has fear is "not made perfect" he cannot be being corrected. And from that you conclude kolasis cannot mean corrected in 1 John 4:18. The three examples i gave proved that conclusion false, by showing people who were "not made perfect" being corrected, thereby refuting your conclusion. Those three examples were given in the following two paragraphs:

So according to you a teenager who is "not made perfect" cannot be corrected? Does that about sum up the type of logic of the argument you are making here?

Was the sinning man in 1 Cor.5:5 "not made perfect"? Yes. Was he being corrected? Yes. So that proves that one "not made perfect" can be corrected. Likewise re those referred to in 1 Tim.1:19-20. Your argument is refuted.

Then you denied that your argument was refuted:

Here is a novel idea you might try, respond to what I actually said. If you don't understand ask me for clarification of what I actually said not some concocted example trying to trip me up.

The example i gave was in the form of a question for that very purpose, i.e. "clarification". Yet you still have failed to clarify. Or address why the example i gave doesn't apply to your remark.

Nothing is refuted.

How so? What didn't you understand about my refutation of your illogical remark?

Deny, deny, deny. The child with chocalate cake on her face answered "No Daddy, i haven't been eating chocolate cake".

Here is the only relevant question does same word κολασιν/kolasin in 1 John 4:18 mean correction or not?

You already answered that & your answer was wrong:

I showed from 1 Jn 4:18 that "kolasis" does NOT mean "correction" since in 1 Jn 4:18 the one who has fear has "kolasis" but is not corrected i.e. "not made perfect."

So according to you a teenager who is "not made perfect" cannot be corrected? Does that about sum up the type of logic of the argument you are making here?

Was the sinning man in 1 Cor.5:5 "not made perfect"? Yes. Was he being corrected? Yes. So that proves that one "not made perfect" can be corrected. Likewise re those referred to in 1 Tim.1:19-20. Your argument is refuted.

 

[Saint Steven]

God is succeeding, but there are humans who do not see this.

Right. We call them Damnationists.

 

[Saint Steven]

So, teaching procrastination is not right. Now is the time. God's correction of His children is now . . .

Just to be clear, we are not "teaching procrastination". Salvation has immediate benefits, and waiting until later is a disastrous idea.

 

[Saint Steven]

Oh, sweet mystery of the ages, that a second Adam should stand upon the earth and declare, "The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIFE, and that they might have it more abundantly. For the bread of God is He which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world. I am that bread of life. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: the bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" (Jn. 10:10; 6:33, 48,51). No greater revelation can break upon any man's consciousness than this simple truth that there is ONLY ONE LIFE in the universe, and that one life is JESUS CHRIST. May God make this truth real to your heart! When a man comes to Christ the life, he comes not only to the life that IS the light of men, but to the same life that in the beginning WAS the light of men. What we have received in Christ's opening again of Paradise is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re- conciliation, a re-surrection. The prefix "re" means BACK AGAIN, ANEW- and all the words with this prefix speak of something that LEFT ITS PLACE AND HAS NOW MADE ITS CIRCUIT AND COME BACK TO THE POINT OF ITS BEGINNING.

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[Zao is life]

Jesus was sent with one mission to accomplish. Did he succeed, or did he fail?

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

This question is addressed in the book
The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby

Here's the opening paragraph below to get you started.
I will continue to post paragraphs for discussion as we go.


AMONG all the questions that men have asked, there is one that is of supreme interest and importance. Why are we here? What is our destiny? What lies beyond the grave for the Christian, for the unbeliever? For old, for young? For our fellow citizens, and for the teeming masses in far-away lands serving strange gods? These questions were raised by one of the great poets of all times. I am speaking now of that American genius of letters, Edgar Allen Poe - an incomparable genius, and yet a man whose life was destroyed by unbelief. Millions of people have read his masterpiece, "The Raven," but few, I am afraid, have ever grasped the real spiritual significance of the struggle that was going on in the soul of this man. He asked four very significant questions - questions which every living soul, at one, time or another, must raise to God. First, Is there a God who comforts? Is there a God who can assuage the pain of life? (In this case it is the poignant pain of the loss of a loved one, his beloved Lenore.) Is there "some water from the river of paradise, the water of Nephenthe," which can take away the heartache that is driving him insane? Secondly, he asks, Is there really a Christ? Does He live? Is there a balm in Gilead? Is there One who can smoothe the wrinkled brow and soften the hard heart? Thirdly, he asks, Is there some place, some heaven, some distant Eden or future world where we shall be joined again with our loved ones? And, finally, Is there any hope that the darkness and hopelessness and despair of this life will be lifted? But always he directs his questions to his own unbelief which is personified in that grim and ghastly raven, a picture of doubt and unbelief. A few years after writing those chilling words, Poe became insane. Regaining his sanity, he drank himself to death, and this genius was found dead in the gutter.

Source: Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1


Audio version: By J. Preston Eby Audio – Kingdom Resources

Thank you. I've finally found the time to start going through this book. So I'm on chapter 1. Lol.

 

[Zao is life]

See post #45

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Because we are all born into Adam, who believed in God's salvation, which He announced to Eve (Genesis 3:15).

"For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

then (Greek: eita) is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.

for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.

The last enemy made to cease is death.

For He put all things under His feet. But when He says that all things have been put under His feet, it is plain that it excepts Him who has put all things under Him.

But when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subject to Him who has subjected things to Him, so that God may be all things in all." (1 Corinthians 15:21-28)

All in one Adam (the first Adam), then (Greek: eita) all in the last Adam.

"And he said, "So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.

For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then (Greek: eita) the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come." (Mark 4:26-29).

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;"

BUT HERE IS THE CAVEAT:

"But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:5).

"And death and hades were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death." (Revelation 20:14).

Death and hades are the two sides of the same coin? I believe this is the case. I don't believe in "hell" in the sense that we have come to be taught about "hell". It's not even a Biblical word merely because the KJV translates three different Greek words as "hell" each and every time.

"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire."

The question in my mind is: Is the gospel known in hades? Possibly (I said, possibly) - because Jesus descended into hades - and went and preached there.

But God only sees two Adams - the first, and the last: Adam who disobeyed, and died, but believed the gospel of His salvation through the seed of the woman (Genesis 3;15); and Adam who obeyed, and yet died, taking the sin of Adam upon Himself, and rose again.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive."

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2:2).

AMOTHER CAVEAT:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting (Greek: Aionios, "Age-during") life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but (however) he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18).

"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire."

For me, there are many mysteries. There are only two Adams, the first, and the last, and we are born into one when we are born, and through the quickening of the Holy Spirit, we are born again - but only if we believe. So what of those who don't believe? Will the faith and work of Christ cover them too, as it covers the first Adam?

 

[Saint Steven]

For me, there are many mysteries. There are only two Adams, the first, and the last, and we are born into one when we are born, and through the quickening of the Holy Spirit, we are born again - but only if we believe. So what of those who don't believe? Will the faith and work of Christ cover them too, as it covers the first Adam?

Thanks for your terrific post. I am only quoting the last paragraph with your question.

I believe that eventually everyone will believe. The scriptures you presented show us the outcome, and we know there is only one way to get there. Every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, in heaven and on earth and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead) And no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (did we miss anyone?) Every tongue, every knee, both the dead and the living. Looks like everyone to me.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

 

[Der Alte]

....
Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Yes but, scripture does NOT say that all will bow "in reverent love for their Maker." etc.
Exomolgeo occurs eleven times in the NT, in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back).”

Matthew 3:6 “confessing their sins,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing their sins,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed their deeds,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess Christ,” James 5:16 “confess your faults,” Revelation 3:5 “confess his name”​

It never means whole-heartedly etc.
…..Scripture says that every knee will bow but only believers will do so willingly in love and faith, the others will be conquered enemies.
How will the enemies of Jesus feel?

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day,* Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
* "That day" -the day of judgement.​

The word of God says every knee will bow. It must be important because it is repeated four times.

1. Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
2. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
3. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
4. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;​

But the "fearful, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters, liars" etc. who denied God and Christ all their lives will be forced to their knees and forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord. This is another important point it is recorded seven times in scripture.

1. Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
3. Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
4. Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luke 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
5. Acts of the apostles 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
6. Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
7. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;. Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.​

What does “make your enemies your footstool mean?” Joshua shows us in Josh. 10.

Joshua 10:17 And it was told Joshua, saying, The five kings are found hid in a cave at Makkedah.
Joshua 10:22 Then said Joshua, Open the mouth of the cave, and bring out those five kings unto me out of the cave.
Joshua 10:23 And they did so, and brought forth those five kings unto him out of the cave, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon.
Joshua 10:24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.…
Joshua 10:26 And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.​

 

[Saint Steven]

Let me give you now a Scripture that shows the hand of God in this and the extensive scope of both the departure from, and the returning unto, God. I quote from Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. YOU TURN MAN TO DESTRUCTION; and say RETURN YOU CHILDREN OF MEN." You could never read this word "return" here, if you had not first read that man had been "turned" away to destruction. In this passage the word "destruction" has this meaning in the original: A COMPLETE COLLAPSE, crumbling man to a contrite condition.

Here is the picture: For the magnificent purpose God had in mind He made all the provision necessary before the foundation of the world. He made provision for a Lamb to be slain (Rev. 13:8). He made provision for a company of people to be chosen in Christ, to be holy and without blame before Him in love, as a firstfruit of His redemption in the earth (Eph. 1:45,10). Then He brought into Eden a poisonous serpent, a murderer, a MANSLAYER (Gen. 3: 1). Having prepared all this HE THEN BROUGHT MAN INTO THE GARDEN. Having brought man into the Garden, GOD PUT HIM INTO THE PATHWAY OF A COMPLETE COLLAPSE. It was GOD who turned man to destruction, set him on this downward course, sent him into outer darkness, and made him subject to vanity. God our Father has never once blamed man for the fall, but takes the responsibility for it Himself when He says, "For the creation was subjected to frailty - to futility, condemned to frustration - not because of some intentional fault on its part, BUT BY THE WILL OF HIM WHO SO SUBJECTED IT. YET WITH THE HOPE that creation itself WILL BE SET FREE from its bondage to decay and corruption and gain an entrance into the glorious freedom of God's children" (Rom. 8:20-21, Amplified). Man did not volunteer for this time of travail, but the plan of God included this process, so God turned man into this route, this experience, and it will also be the sovereign work of a sovereign God who shall BRING BACK INTO HIMSELF the whole of His creation.

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[Der Alte]

Let me give you now a Scripture that shows the hand of God in this and the extensive scope of both the departure from, and the returning unto, God. I quote from Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. YOU TURN MAN TO DESTRUCTION; and say RETURN YOU CHILDREN OF MEN." You could never read this word "return" here, if you had not first read that man had been "turned" away to destruction. In this passage the word "destruction" has this meaning in the original: A COMPLETE COLLAPSE, crumbling man to a contrite condition.
Here is the picture: For the magnificent purpose God had in mind He made all the provision necessary before the foundation of the world. He made provision for a Lamb to be slain (Rev. 13:8). He made provision for a company of people to be chosen in Christ, to be holy and without blame before Him in love, as a firstfruit of His redemption in the earth (Eph. 1:45,10). Then He brought into Eden a poisonous serpent, a murderer, a MANSLAYER (Gen. 3: 1). Having prepared all this HE THEN BROUGHT MAN INTO THE GARDEN. Having brought man into the Garden, GOD PUT HIM INTO THE PATHWAY OF A COMPLETE COLLAPSE. It was GOD who turned man to destruction, set him on this downward course, sent him into outer darkness, and made him subject to vanity. God our Father has never once blamed man for the fall, but takes the responsibility for it Himself when He says, "For the creation was subjected to frailty - to futility, condemned to frustration - not because of some intentional fault on its part, BUT BY THE WILL OF HIM WHO SO SUBJECTED IT. YET WITH THE HOPE that creation itself WILL BE SET FREE from its bondage to decay and corruption and gain an entrance into the glorious freedom of God's children" (Rom. 8:20-21, Amplified). Man did not volunteer for this time of travail, but the plan of God included this process, so God turned man into this route, this experience, and it will also be the sovereign work of a sovereign God who shall BRING BACK INTO HIMSELF the whole of His creation.
Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

And another copy/paste from the gospel according to Saint Eby.
After all this religious sounding rhetoric God does not say that ALL will be set free, "Yet with THE HOPE that creation itself will be set free."

 

[ClementofA]

Yes but, scripture does NOT say that all will bow "in reverent love for their Maker." etc.
Exomolgeo occurs eleven times in the NT, in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back).”

Matthew 3:6 “confessing their sins,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing their sins,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed their deeds,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess Christ,” James 5:16 “confess your faults,” Revelation 3:5 “confess his name”​

It never means whole-heartedly etc.
…

"Vincent's Word Studies
At the name of Jesus (ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι)
Rev., better, in the name. The name means here the personal name; but as including all that is involved in the name. See on Matthew 28:19. Hence the salutation is not at the name of Jesus, as by bowing when the name is uttered, but, as Ellicott rightly says: "the spiritual sphere, the holy element as it were, in which every prayer is to be offered and every knee to bow." Compare Ephesians 5:20." Philippians 2 Commentary - Vincent's Word Studies

"In the NT κάμπτω is found only in combination with γόνυ (γόνατα), and in this connection it is used trans. with γόνυ (γόνατα) as obj. (R. 11:4; Eph. 3:14) and instrans. with γόνυ as subj. (R. 14:11; Phil.2:10)."

"κάμπτειν γόνυ (γόνατα) is the gesture of full inner submission in worship before the one whom we bow the knee. Thus in R. 14:11 bowing the knee is linked with confession within the context of a judgement scene, and in Phil. 2:10 it again accompanies confession with reference to the worship of the exalted Kyrios Jesus by the cosmos. At R. 11:4 κάμπτειν γόνυ τῇ Βάαλ signifies surrender to Baal, and at Eph. 3:14...is a solemn description of the attitude of submission to God in prayer" (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Vol.3, p.594-595, Heinrich Schlier, ed. Kittel., Eerdmans, 1978).

"2:10-11 These final verses of the christologial hymn describe the universal homage and acclamation that will be accorded the one whose name ranks above all others...the adoration is in honour of the exalted Christ...the parallel words of v.11b describe explicitly the act of reverence as paid directly to the Son and 'to the glory of God the Father'. It is clear that Jesus is the one being worshipped."

"...'Every knee shall bow'. The universal scope of the adoration offered to Jesus as Lord is described by the words 'every knee shall bow' and 'every tongue confess'. (v.11)...The bending of the knee was an expression denoting great reverence and submission in the OT, especially marking the humble approach of the worshipper who felt his need so keenly that he could not stand upright before God. While the usual position in prayer was that of standing (e.g., Je. 18:20; 1 Ki. 18:15; 17:1, etc), in times of special need or extremity the worshipper fell on his knees (so Ez. 9:5, 15). Likewise in the Gospels people stand to pray (Lk.18:11, 13) and Jesus assumes His disciples will stand (cf. Mt.6:5); but when there is an acute sense of need or urgent entreaty, the supplicant falls down before God. So Jesus in Gethsemane bows down in lowly submission and distress (Mt.26:9; Mk.14:35; Lk.22:41). The bowing of the knee here at Phil. 2:10, as Martin puts it, is 'a mark of extreme abasement and submission (as in Eph. iii.14) and denotes that the universal homage marks the subjection of those who kneel to the lordship of Christ'.47"

"...Is. 45:22-25...The Lord...swears solemnly by his own life that 'every knee will bow before me; by me every tongue will swear'...the words of v.23, which are reiterated in Phil. 2:10-11, express the notion of the universal and final homage to Yahweh.

"...By invoking Is.45:23 as its proof-text the author of the hymn and the...community in which the hymn originated live 'in confident expectation that this salvation will soon be universally visible'.55"

(The New International Greek Testament Commentary (NIGTC): The Epistle to the Phillipians, Peter T. Obrien, 1991, p.233ff)

"bend the knee in worship, LXX Is.45.23, etc.":

Перевод κάμπτω с греческого на все языки
Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, κάμπτω

"No hypocritical confession will satisfy God. “No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost” (1Cor. 12:3). Further, Phil. 2:11 says that the confession is “to the glory of God the Father.” No confession compulsion and force would glorify God the Father.” The whole text implies a real change of heart to make this confession truly “in the Name of Jesus” and “to the glory of God the Father.” Note, further, that those who “bow” and “confess” are in heaven," “in earth,” and “underearth.” This includes the whole creation of God."
Is Hell Eternal? Or Will God's Plan Fail? Ch. 8 The Neglected Age

"Talbot argues Paul anticipated this exhaustive reconciliation because of the verb he chose: confess. According to Talbot, “he chose a verb that throughout the Septuagint implies not only confession, but the offer of praise and thanksgiving as well.”3 He goes on to suggest that, while a king or queen could force a subject to bow against their will, praise and thanksgiving can only come from the heart:

" “either those who bow before Jesus Christ and declare openly that he is Lord do so sincerely and by their own choice or they do not. If they do this sincerely and by their own choice, then there can be but one reason: They too have been reconciled to God.4” "

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the eons of the eons.

Isa.45:21b and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth inrighteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (NASB)

"Keep in mind these 2 simple observations:

The text In Isaiah 45:22-23 that inspires 2:9-11 uses the future tense.

(2) The other NT text referring to the worship of everyone “in heaven, on earth, and under the earth” presents a vision of what happens, not of what might happen (Rev. 5:13)."

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour,
and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

“How ironic that those who believe God will not violate the ‘free ’will of man have no problem believing He will violate His own free will—that all men should be saved!” - David Nuckols

“He does not save men by arbitrary force. He saves by their wills, through moral influence. God has resources in his universe, the all conquering agencies of love, to make the unwilling soul willing! He has light enough to make the blind see, and love enough to melt the hardened heart.” -Quillen Hamilton Shinn

"It's tempting for me to believe that God is the grand master playing chess and we are the 5 year old rookie. Theoretically we are "free" to win the chess game, it is possible. No not really in the libertarian sense - it is unlikely to the point of virtual zero. in other words, God will always get His way, despite our best efforts not to be saved."

According to the Bible mercy will triumph over judgement.

Love will conquer all.

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

 

[FineLinen]

"...'Every knee shall bow'. The universal scope of the adoration offered to Jesus as Lord is described by the words 'every knee shall bow' and 'every tongue confess'. (v.11)...The bending of the knee was an expression denoting great reverence and submission in the OT, especially marking the humble approach of the worshipper who felt his need so keenly that he could not stand upright before God. While the usual position in prayer was that of standing (e.g., Je. 18:20; 1 Ki. 18:15; 17:1, etc), in times of special need or extremity the worshipper fell on his knees (so Ez. 9:5, 15). Likewise in the Gospels people stand to pray (Lk.18:11, 13) and Jesus assumes His disciples will stand (cf. Mt.6:5); but when there is an acute sense of need or urgent entreaty, the supplicant falls down before God. So Jesus in Gethsemane bows down in lowly submission and distress (Mt.26:9; Mk.14:35; Lk.22:41). The bowing of the knee here at Phil. 2:10, as Martin puts it, is 'a mark of extreme abasement and submission (as in Eph. iii.14) and denotes that the universal homage marks the subjection of those who kneel to the lordship of Christ'.47"

Outstanding ! !