Saved by Grace?

[lismore]

Hello

To be saved by God's grace, not by anything good we have done, but by the goodness and mercy of God who sent the saviour into the world to save us.

This idea is not universally held in Christianity?

I am surprised by the number of people I meet who do not believe it.

Do you believe it, or not?

Salvation by grace.

 

[Faulty]

Yup. Salvation seen as 'grace + anything' is not salvation at all.

Paul threw a fit when some came teaching grace + circumcision and he called it another gospel altogether, one where the proponents are worthy of eternal damnation. That's harsh, and not to be taken lightly.

 

[docpotter]

Hello

To be saved by God's grace, not by anything good we have done, but by the goodness and mercy of God who sent the saviour into the world to save us.

This idea is not universally held in Christianity?

I am surprised by the number of people I meet who do not believe it.

Do you believe it, or not?

Salvation by grace.

I believe it . Paul makes a great point that we cannot do anything ( works ) that will save us " so that none will boast " . ( Ephesians 2:9 )

It is by faith in Christ , believing in our heart of hearts He was who He claimed to be , and that He died for our sins . If you believe that , and follow the teachings of Christ you shall be saved .

Most " religions " do not teach this . In fact every religion in the history of the world preaches we need to " earn our salvation " .

 

[TasManOfGod]

Hello

To be saved by God's grace, not by anything good we have done, but by the goodness and mercy of God who sent the saviour into the world to save us.

This idea is not universally held in Christianity?

I am surprised by the number of people I meet who do not believe it.

Do you believe it, or not?

Salvation by grace.

You shouldn't get any argument here - although it is amazing what some, who call themseves charismatic, hold to.

 

[lismore]

Most " religions " do not teach this . In fact every religion in the history of the world preaches we need to " earn our salvation " .

That's what makes the gospel unique and 'good news'

 

[New_Wineskin]

Hello

To be saved by God's grace, not by anything good we have done, but by the goodness and mercy of God who sent the saviour into the world to save us.

This idea is not universally held in Christianity?

I am surprised by the number of people I meet who do not believe it.

Do you believe it, or not?

Salvation by grace.

I agree with it . Go to "General Theology" and you will have a several thousand post thread - provided you stuck with the thread for any length of time .

 

[lismore]

thanks for all your replies!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I heard a very interesting comparison today between the Corinthian and the Galatian church.

Paul outlined all the sins of the Corinthian church, including sexual immorality, party spirit, Christians taking other Christians to Court, misusing the gifts of the Spirit, etc, etc. Yet he praised and worshipped God for them and how they were faithful to God.

The Galatian church did not have all these sins happening, but they had fallen from their first position of grace and were trying to perfect themselves in the flesh through legalism. Paul had no words of praise toward God for that church, but words of serious concern that they had been bewitched. The word bewitched implies that they had listened to lying demons and had corrupted their faith through legalism.

This shows that God is much more concerned when a Church goes legalistic, than one that has all sorts of sins going on among the congregation.

Interesting...

 

[docpotter]

I heard a very interesting comparison today between the Corinthian and the Galatian church.

Paul outlined all the sins of the Corinthian church, including sexual immorality, party spirit, Christians taking other Christians to Court, misusing the gifts of the Spirit, etc, etc. Yet he praised and worshipped God for them and how they were faithful to God.

The Galatian church did not have all these sins happening, but they had fallen from their first position of grace and were trying to perfect themselves in the flesh through legalism. Paul had no words of praise toward God for that church, but words of serious concern that they had been bewitched. The word bewitched implies that they had listened to lying demons and had corrupted their faith through legalism.

This shows that God is much more concerned when a Church goes legalistic, than one that has all sorts of sins going on among the congregation.

Interesting...

That is very interesting Oscarr , goes to show ya not to get too complacent I guess huh : )

 

[New_Wineskin]

Paul outlined all the sins of the Corinthian church, including sexual immorality, party spirit, Christians taking other Christians to Court, misusing the gifts of the Spirit, etc, etc.

Paul calls "party spirit" a sin ? "taking other Christians to Court" a sin ?
A pretty interesting definition of sin is being used by you and then you go on about legalism .

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Paul calls "party spirit" a sin ? "taking other Christians to Court" a sin ?
A pretty interesting definition of sin is being used by you and then you go on about legalism .

You missed the point. I am not going on about legalism at all. My post was not about me at all. It was about Paul's attitude to the Galatians as opposed to the Corinthians.

Paul certainly viewed Christians taking other Christians to court over civil matters (not criminal) a sin because they are trusting in Pagans to sort out their differences instead of Christians. It sort of like getting the devil's people to decide matters for you instead of people filled with the Holy Spirit.

Also, party spirit was viewed by Paul as a sin because the Corinthians were going into hero worship and treating him, Peter and Apollos as idols.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Paul certainly viewed Christians taking other Christians to court over civil matters (not criminal) a sin because they are trusting in Pagans to sort out their differences instead of Christians.

That is not a sin . Paul was not writing a new "the Law" . It would contradict most of his writings .

It sort of like getting the devil's people to decide matters for you instead of people filled with the Holy Spirit.

It is nothing of the sort . Definitely not nowadays when so-called "churches" only allow certain christians as part of their clubs .

Also, party spirit was viewed by Paul as a sin because the Corinthians were going into hero worship and treating him, Peter and Apollos as idols.

You *really* think that Paul was listing sins ? Really ? That is what you get from Paul's writings - new stone tablets ?

 

[Alex.C]

Has anyone read John Beveres book Driven by Eternity. He definatly suggests Salvation has to be earnt and claims God told him to write the book. On the other hand John Crowder writes that its completey grace and we are now sinless. Both use scripture to further their arguments and both are on the charismatic/Pentecostal circuit.

 

[lismore]

Has anyone read John Beveres book Driven by Eternity. He definatly suggests Salvation has to be earnt and claims God told him to write the book. On the other hand John Crowder writes that its completey grace and we are now sinless. Both use scripture to further their arguments and both are on the charismatic/Pentecostal circuit.

I believe that salvation is by grace but that there will be a reward for works, choices that people made. Salvation is not by works, the reward is.

Revelation 22:12
[ Epilogue: Invitation and Warning ] “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

For example I have heard some people say that if you get a tatoo you will forfeit salvation because of the command in the Torah about it.

But salvation is by grace.

Those who choose to get a tatoo will not forfeit salvation.

 

[HeavensWorship]

We are saved by grace, rewarded by works.

 

[Always in His Presence]

That's what makes the gospel unique and 'good news'

Shhhhh.... that's positive confession - pinetree will jump all over you.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Those who choose to get a tatoo will not forfeit salvation.

True. But I would hate to stand before God with one knowing that I had defiled His temple against His specific word not to

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

Hello

To be saved by God's grace, not by anything good we have done, but by the goodness and mercy of God who sent the saviour into the world to save us.

This idea is not universally held in Christianity?

I am surprised by the number of people I meet who do not believe it.

Do you believe it, or not?

Salvation by grace.

Most Christians say they believe this. However when you start delving into peoples individual beliefs you will get all kinds of answers, this forum has been a great example of this in the past as you well know.

Catholicism for example believes one is saved by grace and sustained by works.

Baptists generally believe once saved always saved.

Assemblies of God believe that you are basically saved from past sins and that continual repentance and striving to live holy keeps your faith intact. (not too far from catholicism in that respect) In other words, you are saved by faith alone, but if you sin it could cause you to lose your faith and therefore lose your salvation.

Presbyterian (which I presently attend) believes a person is saved simply by trusting in Jesus' finished work on the cross. You don't have to have a surrendered life, you don't have to be perfect, you just grab on to Him by trusting in what He has done and you are saved. Of course on a deeper level they believe God sovereignly chose to save the elect from a world that was totally lost and that the elect will show fruit from their faith, but they don't categorize or label those who are in or out based on their performance. In fact one of their doctrines is that no one can judge another person in terms of not being saved.

Those are the major representations of saving faith. Reformed, catholic, Pentecostal, baptist.

I choose reformed because the one thing I don't want any mincing about is the Gospel. Sola gratia, sola fide (grace alone, faith alone).

I'd rather put all my reliance on God than keep any for myself. That may offend some, but that is the way I see this most fundamental issue of the Christian faith.

 

[lismore]

True. But I would hate to stand before God with one knowing that I had defiled His temple against His specific word not to

Saved by grace, but rewarded by works.

Everyone saved by grace will be there on the happy day, but some will have more crowns to cast down that others.

 

[Source Scripture]

Grace is the gospel, Acts 20:24. I don't need to blow a shofar, or wear a tallit, to "get the annointing". I say this because Judaism is invading our Charismatic churches. Colossians 2:10 says were are complete in Him, and it actually says in Him 7 times in a row, 2:6-13 to let the congregants know, they need no additions, fasting, Sabbath days, angel preoccupation, etc, it was all done on the cross for them, by Him.