saved by grace or by works

[Guojing]

Everyone in the body of Christ is to obey all the scriptures as stated in the scriptures. This would naturally include ALL SCRIPTURE.

If you really mean what you are saying here, you will also build an ark, because God commanded Noah to build one in Genesis 6:14.

But you don't, because somehow, you know that command was directed only to Noah and not to you.

 

[iwbswiaihl]

If you really mean what you are saying here, you will also build an ark, because God commanded Noah to build one in Genesis 6:14.

But you don't, because somehow, you know that command was directed only to Noah and not to you.

I had to laugh at this reply when I first read it! I hesitate to post my reply, I can't really believe you could seriously think because of what God clearly told Noah only to do! Gen 6:13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch. 15And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks. 17And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die. 18But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark—you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you. 19And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. 20Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive. 21And you shall take for yourself of all food that is eaten, and you shall gather it to yourself; and it shall be food for you and for them.” 22Thus Noah did; according to all that God commanded him, so he did. Now all you have to do is post where God told anyone else to build an ark except Noah in the bible. If you have no verse, no reply is wanted, have a great life.

 

[Guojing]

I had to laugh at this reply when I first read it! I hesitate to post my reply, I can't really believe you could seriously think because of what God clearly told Noah only to do! Gen 6:13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch. 15And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks. 17And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die. 18But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark—you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you. 19And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. 20Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive. 21And you shall take for yourself of all food that is eaten, and you shall gather it to yourself; and it shall be food for you and for them.” 22Thus Noah did; according to all that God commanded him, so he did. Now all you have to do is post where God told anyone else to build an ark except Noah in the bible. If you have no verse, no reply is wanted, have a great life.

Have you even read the part of your post I quoted from?

When you say all, you don't actually mean all, that was what I was trying to tell you

 

[iwbswiaihl]

You missed my point meaning that he only told Noah, specifically, to build an Ark!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ligurian]

As I said to you already, I consider myself a gentile in the Body of Christ.

Since Paul declares himself an apostle to the gentiles, and he is speaking to all gentiles in Romans 11:13, I take his instructions as directed to me.

James, on the other hand, never claimed to be an apostle to the gentiles/uncircumcision. The agreement he made with Paul in Galatians 2:7-9 made it, however, very clear who he is ministering to.

My definition of gentiles is irrelevant in demonstrating that the basis you offered for setting James aside (because of the letter’s addresses) while embracing Paul’s letters despite the fact that most of them are addressed to someone other than you, is completely arbitrary. I understand why you would prefer to set aside that line of discussion and pick up another.

Who set James aside?... that sure wasn't me.

But... I don't read other people's mail, either.

 

[Guojing]

You missed my point meaning that he only told Noah, specifically, to build an Ark!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you have read properly my "if then" point to you, you would know I understand your point perfectly. saved by grace or by works

But you missed my point.

Everyone in the body of Christ is to obey all the scriptures as stated in the scriptures. This would naturally include ALL SCRIPTURE.

You stated all scripture are to be obeyed. But you clearly did not meant all.

You cannot tell you are contradicting yourself?

 

[iwbswiaihl]

If you have read properly my "if then" point to you, you would know I understand your point perfectly. saved by grace or by works

But you missed my point.



You stated all scripture are to be obeyed. But you clearly did not meant all.

You cannot tell you are contradicting yourself?

He never told us to build an ARK and that is what you said, Post 321 you stated, "If you really mean what you are saying here, you will also build an ark, because God commanded Noah to build one in Genesis 6:14". Now get the point, He only, only, only told Noah to build an Ark. So He didn't give anyone else a command to build an ark? So I indeed meant we are to obey all His commandments. or Oh me?

 

[Guojing]

He never told us to build an ARK and that is what you said, Post 321 you stated, "If you really mean what you are saying here, you will also build an ark, because God commanded Noah to build one in Genesis 6:14". Now get the point, He only, only, only told Noah to build an Ark. So He didn't give anyone else a command to build an ark? So I indeed meant we are to obey all His commandments. or Oh me?

So is it up to you to decide which command is for you and which is not for you?

What if one decides Luke 12:33 is not for him? Is he correct? What about Matthew 28:18-20?

And FYI, if you want to make reference to someone's else post, you should quote the entire post, and not remove "But you don't, because somehow, you know that command was directed only to Noah and not to you."

 

[Doug Brents]

So is it up to you to decide which command is for you and which is not for you?

What if one decides Luke 12:33 is not for him? Is he correct? What about Matthew 28:18-20?

Dude, there is a thing called discernment (that we are called to develop) that allows people to differentiate between commands directed to a single individual, or to a group (the Israelites who marched around Jericho), or to the world at large. If you decide to throw out an entire letter (James) just because it is addressed to someone other than Goujing, then you may as well leave the whole Bible alone, because I can promise you that name is not in there.

 

[Guojing]

Dude, there is a thing called discernment (that we are called to develop) that allows people to differentiate between commands directed to a single individual, or to a group (the Israelites who marched around Jericho), or to the world at large. If you decide to throw out an entire letter (James) just because it is addressed to someone other than Goujing, then you may as well leave the whole Bible alone, because I can promise you that name is not in there.

If it is up to one's discernment, it cannot be that all scripture are to be obeyed

You would at least agree with that?

 

[earthmover]

If it is up to one's discernment, it cannot be that all scripture are to be obeyed

You would at least agree with that?

I do....There is one thing that God covets more than anything and that is His WORD!

If you cannot believe in His WORD (all of it) then how can one believe in Jesus Christ?

Blade

 

[Guojing]

I do....There is one thing that God covets more than anything and that is His WORD!

If you cannot believe in His WORD (all of it) then how can one believe in Jesus Christ?

Blade

You can believe scripture without thinking you have to obey it, as all of us here believe genesis 6:14 but we don't build arks

 

[Doug Brents]

If it is up to one's discernment, it cannot be that all scripture are to be obeyed

You would at least agree with that?

All Scripture is to be obeyed, because “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
That means that not every command in Scripture is directed at you (some are directed at women only, but not everyone is a woman), but every command has a nugget in it for you to learn from.

 

[Guojing]

All Scripture is to be obeyed, because “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
That means that not every command in Scripture is directed at you (some are directed at women only, but not everyone is a woman), but every command has a nugget in it for you to learn from.

When most people, I think, learn English, they are taught that "all" means all.

The moment you allow for exceptions "not every command is directed at you (thus by implication you don't have to obey them, like Genesis 6:14), you cannot continue to hold the premise "All Scripture is to be obeyed".

Simply put, all means all. Otherwise, please use the term "most".

You can learn from all scripture, that I certainly agree. But I don't jump from that premise to conclude that "All Scripture is to be obeyed"

 

[earthmover]

You can believe scripture without thinking you have to obey it, as all of us here believe genesis 6:14 but we don't build arks

OK, but GOD was talking only to Noah....The commandments of Jesus are to us all. If one wants to change, remove, add meanings/words to the WORD of GOD then they can not believe anything about it.

earthmover

 

[Guojing]

OK, but GOD was talking only to Noah....The commandments of Jesus are to us all. If one wants to change, remove, add meanings/words to the WORD of GOD then they can not believe anything about it.

earthmover

When you read what Jesus himself said in Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24, as well as what Paul stated about Jesus's ministry on Earth in Romans 15:8, would you change your mind about "The commandments of Jesus are to us all."?

 

[earthmover]

When you read what Jesus himself said in Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24, as well as what Paul stated about Jesus's ministry on Earth in Romans 15:8, would you change your mind about "The commandments of Jesus are to us all."?

you left out some context from those verses but to answer your question? Yes, The OT saints, the Jews and the Gentiles are all saved by the Grace of GOD....Those who believe in Him. Yet, without believing in His WORD, there can be no true belief and He will know that truth at everyone's judgement.

earthmover

 

[Guojing]

you left out some context from those verses but to answer your question? Yes, The OT saints, the Jews and the Gentiles are all saved by the Grace of GOD....Those who believe in Him. Yet, without believing in His WORD, there can be no true belief and He will know that truth at everyone's judgement.

earthmover

So you still want to believe that all the commandments of Jesus are for us to obey.

Alright I can understand that. If you have read the previous exchange on Luke 12:33, you know that what many people do is that they convince themselves, "what Jesus really meant was...", hence allowing them to think they are obeying his commandments. =)

 

[Doug Brents]

When most people, I think, learn English, they are taught that "all" means all.

The moment you allow for exceptions "not every command is directed at you (thus by implication you don't have to obey them, like Genesis 6:14), you cannot continue to hold the premise "All Scripture is to be obeyed".

Simply put, all means all. Otherwise, please use the term "most".

You can learn from all scripture, that I certainly agree. But I don't jump from that premise to conclude that "All Scripture is to be obeyed"

In a will there are sometimes instructions (conditions) for each family member before they can receive their inheritance. In a contract, similarly, there are different instructions or requirements, for different parties to the contract. One party does not have to fulfill another party’s obligations in order for their part to be fulfilled.

Similarly with Scripture, not every passage is directed at you, but most are. It takes discernment, study, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit to understand which is which. So yes, ALL Scripture is to be obeyed in so far as it applies to each individual.

 

[Guojing]

In a will there are sometimes instructions (conditions) for each family member before they can receive their inheritance. In a contract, similarly, there are different instructions or requirements, for different parties to the contract. One party does not have to fulfill another party’s obligations in order for their part to be fulfilled.

Similarly with Scripture, not every passage is directed at you, but most are. It takes discernment, study, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit to understand which is which. So yes, ALL Scripture is to be obeyed in so far as it applies to each individual.

What a way to say all but still allowing exceptions.

But my point has been established so lets move on