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How can we who are nothing but sin stop being sin unless an external source of righteousness provides an alternative for our thoughts and actions?
How can sinners repent when they consist only of sinful flesh?First we have a sense of right and wrong based upon our created conscience. And it seems you're one of those type of Calvinists that I try to tell other Calvinists that ones like you exist which say everything about the unsaved person is sin. They've tried to tell me that Calvinistic Total Depravity doesn't mean you're as bad as you could be. It seems you do. You seem to believe the unsaved are absolutely nothing but sin, no possibility of any good thought whatsoever.
You just told me we deliberately sign away our rights and become a slave of Christ. You need to be consistent with your theology. If it is correct, we don't deliberately follow Christ, it happens without our decision. Otherwise, people are going to think you believe we have that cursed free will.The difference is that the unsaved man has only the Old nature, and the saved man has both the Old and New nature.
The old nature is only able to sin. The new nature is only able to not sin. The two together, in the saved man, results in both.
"Free will" as nothing to do with making choices. We all make choices every day. "Free will" deals with the condition of the person.
How can sinners repent when they consist only of sinful flesh?
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)
Please identify the fleshly attribute that would choose Christ.
We don't claim that our flesh makes that choice. We are awakened by the Spirit to our need of God, and then have the capacity to choose to trust Christ or reject the Spirit's calling.How can sinners repent when they consist only of sinful flesh?
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)
Please identify the fleshly attribute that would choose Christ.
You just told me we deliberately sign away our rights and become a slave of Christ. You need to be consistent with your theology. If it is correct, we don't deliberately follow Christ, it happens without our decision. Otherwise, people are going to think you believe we have that cursed free will.
You can't say in one breath that we always act only according to our nature and in the next say we make choices. If we are a slave to our two natures in a literal sense, then obviously, it is never us making choices, it's whatever nature is controlling us at the time. This is what I mean by Calvinists being inconsistent. If you're going to subscribe to an illogical system, quit waffling and go all in. The only consistent calvinists are the hyper ones who will just flat out say that everything is God's determination and that God authors sin and we are just along for the ride. Otherwise, you believe in free will just as much as anyone, you just refuse to acknowledge that, so you give it other names.
This is only in the New Birth where faith is a fruit thereof.We don't claim that our flesh makes that choice. We are awakened by the Spirit to our need of God, and then have the capacity to choose to trust Christ or reject the Spirit's calling.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)Two ways to respond to this and I'll maybe get to the second one later. But you tell me how can someone who is a new creation who manifests all the opposite of what you've outlined above at times yield to say some of those sins you've listed above. Why aren't they perfect if they're not in the flesh.
No, I didn't. I never said any such thing.You just told me we deliberately sign away our rights and become a slave of Christ.
You need to be consistent with your quoting me, like saying what I actually said instead of something you made up.You need to be consistent with your theology.
Nonsense! When Christ delivers us from the bondage to the law of sin and death, He enables (not forces, enables) us to be a δυλοσ to Him. But that enables just allows us to do so, it does not force us.If it is correct, we don't deliberately follow Christ, it happens without our decision.
I have already demonstrated from the scriptures that the will of the lost man is in bondage to the law of sin and death and the will of the saved man (the spiritual man) is bound to the law of New Life in Christ.Otherwise, people are going to think you believe we have that cursed free will.
"On “the kingdom of God,” which is of frequent occurrence in the earlier Gospels, but in St. John is found only here and in John 3:5, comp. Note on Matthew 3:2. To “see” the kingdom is, in New Testament usage, equivalent to “enter into the kingdom,” ...Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21)"On “the kingdom of God,” which is of frequent occurrence in the earlier Gospels, but in St. John is found only here and in John 3:5, comp. Note on Matthew 3:2. To “see” the kingdom is, in New Testament usage, equivalent to “enter into the kingdom,” ...
He's saying, in essence, that no one can be part of God's kingdom without being born again. It's not a statement about how one begins to trust in God.
Then we agree, we must use our free will to make a choice for or against.Nonsense! When Christ delivers us from the bondage to the law of sin and death, He enables (not forces, enables) us to be a δυλοσ to Him. But that enables just allows us to do so, it does not force us.
Scripture for that from John? I mean an actual scripture which says those words that the old man still exists.
Please. You can't just make this stuff up as you go alone. I never said any such thing. Shame on you!So, in your theology, Jesus doesn't have a problem with the saved man willfully committing adultery, because that saved man just can't stop his flesh from sinning.
Again a gross untruth. I never said any such thing.And, it is okay for that man, pastor or lay person, to keep on living in that adulterous relationship, because he just can't help it????
The Holy Spirit is not impotent and I never said any such thing. But neither does He force Himself on us. He LEADS us. He does not DRIVE us.Why exactly were we given the Holy Spirit, in your theology, if the Holy Spirit is impotent at stopping our sinning "old nature" from doing what we would have done without His help?
Again, a gross untruth. I have never said nor hinted that God is impotent. Of the two of us I am the one who believes God is Absolutely Sovereign, including being Sovereign in Salvation.So, in one post, you say that God's grace is efficacious and in another post you say that God is impotent to even stop those He has chosen from the most basic human failure that is a result of Adam's disobedience handed down?
Yes, that is our passion, but we are not forced to do so. We have been enabled to do so by the Holy Spirit, but He does not force us. He leads us. He enables us.Ok then....????
Please. You can't just make this stuff up as you go alone. I never said any such thing. Shame on you!
Again a gross untruth. I never said any such thing.
The Holy Spirit is not impotent and I never said any such thing. But neither does He force Himself on us. He LEADS us. He does not DRIVE us.
Again, a gross untruth. I have never said nor hinted that God is impotent. Of the two of us I am the one who believes God is Absolutely Sovereign, including being Sovereign in Salvation.
Good. I am putting you on "ignore." Posting untruth after untruth after untruth is not debating. There is another word for that kind of conduct.I won't keep debating with you.
I'm not sure how you think this helps you, but it should be noted that Jesus was talking to the Pharisees here, and it should probably more accurately say "The kingdom of God is among you." Meaning in Jesus' work and miracles. If Jesus meant that the kingdom was within the Pharisees, but they refused to accept it, that would directly contradict your point.“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21)
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