Saved based on God's foreknowledge or God's random choice?

[BNR32FAN]

Please post your reference so I'm sure what you are talking about.

John 15:1-10 Why does Jesus warn His 11 faithful apostles to remain in Him if they have been chosen by God and cannot turn away from Him?

 

[Loren T.]

Any conditions strapped to the gospel make it law/works instead of grace.

Then I don't have to believe at all. If what you said here is true, everyone is saved and the universalists are right.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Isn't Jesus merely telling them how their relationship with him works?

No I’m pretty sure He’s warning them by telling them to remain in Him and produce fruit otherwise they will be removed from the vine and cast away into the fire.

 

[Dave L]

No I’m pretty sure He’s warning them by telling them to remain in Him and produce fruit otherwise they will be removed from the vine and cast away into the fire.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)
Your view = salvation by works.

 

[Dave L]

Then I don't have to believe at all. If what you said here is true, everyone is saved and the universalists are right.

No, if you believe, it is the result of God already saving you in the New Birth. Faith is the evidence.

 

[Dave L]

John 15:1-10 Why does Jesus warn His 11 faithful apostles to remain in Him if they have been chosen by God and cannot turn away from Him?

Who is he warning in this passage? He's telling them how salvation works.

 

[Loren T.]

No, if you believe, it is the result of God already saving you in the New Birth. Faith is the evidence.

Which is why we are told over and over again to believe. Riiiiight.

…28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

 

[Dave L]

Which is why we are told over and over again to believe. Riiiiight.

…28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

Believing is the first step in repentance, but you must be born again to repent. Flesh cannot stop being flesh.

 

[Loren T.]

No, if you believe, it is the result of God already saving you in the New Birth. Faith is the evidence.

Believing is the first step in repentance, but you
must be born again to repent. Flesh cannot stop being flesh.

So, which is it? And why is Jesus telling unsaved Jews to believe if they can't?

 

[Dave L]

So, which is it? And why is Jesus telling unsaved Jews to believe if they can't?

Why did Jesus tell the man with the withered hand to stretch it forth?

 

[Dave L]

Which is why we are told over and over again to believe. Riiiiight.

…28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

Jesus is directing their faith into a more precise fit. Faith remains a fruit of salvation (the Holy Spirit).

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Any conditions strapped to the gospel make it law/works instead of grace.

And right there is where you take a wrong turn.

 

[Dave L]

Who is he warning in this passage? He's telling them how salvation works.

Keep reading:

“I have told you these things so that my joy may be in you, and your joy may be complete. My commandment is this—to love one another just as I have loved you.” (John 15:11–12)

“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:” (2 Peter 1:10)

 

[Dave L]

And right there is where you take a wrong turn.

Grace = unmerited favor. Free will = merited favor = works.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Who is he warning in this passage? He's telling them how salvation works.

Amen brother. He’s telling His apostles if they don’t remain in Him He won’t remain in them and The Father will cut them off from Jesus and cast them into the fire.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Grace = unmerited favor. Free will = merited favor = works.

Free will = salvation by faith. I thought you had this figured out by finally understanding John 15:1-10. How can the apostles fail to remain in Christ if they don’t have free will? Is it The Father’s will if they don’t remain?

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Believing is the first step in repentance, but you must be born again to repent. Flesh cannot stop being flesh.

Huh?

"If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever, even the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive, because it sees Him not, neither knows Him; but you know Him for He dwells with you and shall be in you." (John 14:15-17)

"Verily I say to you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, He cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto you: you must be born again."

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:37-8)

So are you saying that you can be born again without receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit which is only given later after you repent and are baptized?

And if so, do you think the Holy Spirit jumped the gun in Acts 10:43-44?

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." (Acts 10:43-44)

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house." (Acts 16:30-32)

Why did Paul

 

[BNR32FAN]

Believing is the first step in repentance, but you must be born again to repent. Flesh cannot stop being flesh.

Being born again is repentance. Both are referring to becoming a new Godly creation.

 

[Dave L]

Being born again is repentance. Both are referring to becoming a new Godly creation.

The flesh cannot repent. It is what it is. Only after the new birth do we have an option for repentance into holiness.

 

[Dave L]

Huh?

"If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever, even the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive, because it sees Him not, neither knows Him; but you know Him for He dwells with you and shall be in you." (John 14:15-17)

"Verily I say to you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, He cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto you: you must be born again."

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:37-8)

So are you saying that you can be born again without receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit which is only given later after you repent and are baptized?

And if so, do you think the Holy Spirit jumped the gun in Acts 10:43-44?

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." (Acts 10:43-44)

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house." (Acts 16:30-32)

Why did Paul

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Don't confuse it with the Charismatic Gifts the Apostles received at Pentecost.