• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Save a homosexual's soul!

Jet_A_Jockey

Jet+Jetslove=2gether4ever :)
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2006
11,279
1,082
hurricane central
Visit site
✟62,391.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There are certain things that we Christians should not say or do. We Christians should not denigrate gay people or throw stones at gay people or seek to deny gay people equal and fair treatment. We should not denigrate anyone or throw stones at anyone or treat anyone unfairly. I am a Christian, and so when say what I think we Christians should not say or do, I am speaking of myself as well as other Christians. We should not do these things, because they are hurtful to others, and they are NOT what Jesus would do. No gay person that I know of has sought to deny any Christian the right and the opportunity to worship freely and to practice his or her faith freely. There are some Christians, unfortunately, who do seek to deny gay people basic civil rights and fair treatment, not just within the churches, but in the wider civil society. They seek to deny us the right to marry and to raise families with protections for our children. They seek to deny us the right to keep our children. They seek to suppress honest information about us, about our families, and about our lives. A few even seek to kill us in the name of Jesus. If gay people tried to do that to Christians, we Christians would howl in protest and demand justice, with good reason. But gay people have never tried to do anything like that to Christians. We gay people simply want to live our lives with the same rights and responsibilities as heterosexuals. That includes the right to marry our spouses and provide legal protections to our families, including our children. Have I been denied the ability to live openly and freely? I'll share a personal story. A few years ago, I went with two women friends to a lesbian club. One of the friends was not a lesbian; she just wanted to go out with us to hear some music. Late in the evening we left the club and walked down the street. Suddenly we were attacked by a man yelling at us that we were dykes, and he was going to show us what a real man can do. He had a small gang of guys with him, though they did not actually participate in the attack. They just watched as he tried to choke me, and as my friend tried unsuccessfully to bring him down by kicking him in the knees. Our other friend managed somehow to get away and get back to the bar while we were trying to fight off this guy, who was clearly high on something. Suddenly he stopped fighting and accused me of pulling his gold chain and cross off his neck and losing it. He said, "That cross was blessed!" I said, "Oh, you are a religious person?" The guy then forced us to get down on our hands and knees and look for the cross on the ground. He also forced another woman to get down on the ground and search. She lived in a nearby apartment and had come out to see what the commotion was. The gang ensured that we could not get away. Then the police arrived and the guy was arrested. The police told us that he was a known rapist and someone known to attack gay people. He was eventually convicted of attacking us. Many gay people can share similar stories of having been attacked just for walking out of a bar or for holding hands or for being too visibly gay. I am not suggesting that Christians are the ones doing the attacking. But I would like to see more Christians standing up and speaking out against such crimes. Instead of debating whether "homosexuality" is a "sin," I think it would be useful for more Christians to stand up against the mistreatment of gay people. I think Jesus would have been in the forefront of the gay rights movement. I think Jesus would have been outspoken in his denunciation of those people who attack gay people and who treat gay people like we are not people at all. I would like to invite you, Zaac, to become one of those Christians who stands up against the still all-too-frequent attacks that are aimed at innocent gay people.


why are you focused on christians? there are plenty of non-christians who are hateful to homosexuals also. And anyone who is truly following the word of Christ is not going to perform any type of hate crime.

I understand that you are defending homosexuals, and I agree that they should be treated equally, but the tone of your post really makes it sound like christians are a bunch of hate spewing murderers.

If gay people tried to do that to Christians, we Christians would howl in protest and demand justice, with good reason. But gay people have never tried to do anything like that to Christians. We gay people simply want to live our lives with the same rights and responsibilities as heterosexuals. That includes the right to marry our spouses and provide legal protections to our families, including our children.

I'm not sure if you can speak for all gay people on this. I would like it if all hetero's were simply wanting to live our lives with equal rights, but I cant conclusively say that all hetero's feel that way.
 
Upvote 0

Jet_A_Jockey

Jet+Jetslove=2gether4ever :)
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2006
11,279
1,082
hurricane central
Visit site
✟62,391.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Then the belief that homosexuality is a sin is not truth. Because it has killed..

From that perspective, every sin has killed in one way or another. You are mixing the sin with someone's actions.
 
Upvote 0

TheFathersDaughter

The Revolution has Started
Mar 3, 2007
480
84
34
✟17,292.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Green
From that perspective, every sin has killed in one way or another. You are mixing the sin with someone's actions.

These are no actions. People have committed suicide because they couldn't change their attraction, because they felt like freaks and were called freaks for what they were, because they were told they were going to hell for being homosexual. In that aspect, it has killed. You can't blame them for that suicide either.
 
Upvote 0

TheFathersDaughter

The Revolution has Started
Mar 3, 2007
480
84
34
✟17,292.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Green
How isn't it? She set a standard for our answers that is open for change at her whim. By rejecting the bible as a moral authority, there is no basis on which to make an answer.

Not really. She's asking you to show her the evils of homosexuality without using the Bible or the typical Biblical terms/arguments. She can't change it. It's kind of a cop out to say the question is a trap isn't it?

Here I'll make you a deal. Come up with a suitable argument and if she tries to turn it around I'll call her on it. But I doubt she will.
 
Upvote 0

Jet_A_Jockey

Jet+Jetslove=2gether4ever :)
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2006
11,279
1,082
hurricane central
Visit site
✟62,391.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
These are no actions. People have committed suicide because they couldn't change their attraction, because they felt like freaks and were called freaks for what they were, because they were told they were going to hell for being homosexual. In that aspect, it has killed. You can't blame them for that suicide either.


Theres only one person you can blame suicide on. I feel compassion for anyone who has emotional struggles of such a serious degree, but to use that as a reference isn't really the best. Reason being, people kill themselves over all kinds of things, not just their sexual attraction.
 
Upvote 0

Jet_A_Jockey

Jet+Jetslove=2gether4ever :)
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2006
11,279
1,082
hurricane central
Visit site
✟62,391.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Not really. She's asking you to show her the evils of homosexuality without using the Bible or the typical Biblical terms/arguments. She can't change it. It's kind of a cop out to say the question is a trap isn't it?

Here I'll make you a deal. Come up with a suitable argument and if she tries to turn it around I'll call her on it. But I doubt she will.


It's not a cop out, the question itself leaves it wide open for her to change what she deems as feasible evidence. Remember this is in a christian ethics subforum, so your answers are going to be bible based.

Also I don't know of any method of making a suitable argument without having a standard set of morals to put against it. My personal opinion is that the act itself does not interfere with my life, nor do the people who are homosexual. I know and have known several homosexuals who are very good people and I wouldn't trade them for anyone. So, to me, homosexuality is fine and dandy. But that is only my personal opinion, the same as I truly believe the bible is against it.

With that being said, I don't question God, as I place myself as nothing compared to His glory.
 
Upvote 0

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2004
8,430
426
Atlanta, GA.
✟12,748.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
And so you assume all sixteen-year-olds think they're healthy in every way.

To some degree.Yeah Yall think you're healthy in every way and completely indestructable.

I'm spiritually healthy as much as a 16-year-old be. Healthy doesn't mean perfect it just means in good condition.

Biblically speaking,based upon the things that you have said, your spiritual health is on the decline. And as long as you keep challenging God's Word as the standard of your life, it will continue to decline
 
Upvote 0

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2004
8,430
426
Atlanta, GA.
✟12,748.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
The fact that you have repeatedly accused me of committing some heinous "sin," while refusing to specify what my supposed "sin" is, is something I will continue to call you on, Zaac.

You keep on calling then. You give testimony EVERYDAYofthe sin you're committing and the mindset that has you committing it.

You have claimed that you answered my question about what my supposed "sin" is, but you never did. You have dodged and evaded my question.Since you have accused me several times of committing a terrible "sin," why don't you just say what it is and be done with it?

Take it to the Lord in prayer. You deny God's Word as His Word so I ain't got too much to say to ya on the issue.


If you really care about "saving" my soul by accusing me of "sin," then shouldn't you be willing to say what that "sin" is?

Jesus Christ died for you.
 
Upvote 0

Jet_A_Jockey

Jet+Jetslove=2gether4ever :)
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2006
11,279
1,082
hurricane central
Visit site
✟62,391.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Do you at least accept the possiblity that your interpretation of the Bible might be wrong?


Anything is possible, I'm by no means perfect. All I can do is my best to try to understand the message in scripture and try to write it into my brain. Of course that involves taking stands when I feel like the bible is being misrepresented, as standing on the fence on things has its own pitfalls as well.
 
Upvote 0

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2004
8,430
426
Atlanta, GA.
✟12,748.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
There are certain things that we Christians should not say or do.

You mean like "the Bible is not God's Word?"
or "everyone is saved?"


We Christians should not denigrate gay people or throw stones at gay people or seek to deny gay people equal and fair treatment.

You have taken this thread to a whole nother level that has nothing to do with the thread.


We should not denigrate anyone or throw stones at anyone or treat anyone unfairly. I am a Christian, and so when say what I think we Christians should not say or do, I am speaking of myself as well as other Christians.

Let it be known that your theology is unBiblical and you don't speak for any Christian but you. That's why you're always saying "I think" instead of "thus sayeth the Lord."


We should not do these things, because they are hurtful to others, and they are NOT what Jesus would do.

As someone who doesn't trust the Word of God as His Word because it was written by fallible men, you ain't got a clue about what Jesus would do.


No gay person that I know of has sought to deny any Christian the right and the opportunity to worship freely and to practice his or her faith freely.

No straight person I know has sought to deny another Christian this right either. But we also hav it on God's authority to remove from the assembly folks who want to continue in sin and not repent and be restored to the Body.


There are some Christians, unfortunately, who do seek to deny gay people basic civil rights and fair treatment, not just within the churches, but in the wider civil society. They seek to deny us the right to marry and to raise families with protections for our children. They seek to deny us the right to keep our children. They seek to suppress honest information about us, about our families, and about our lives. A few even seek to kill us in the name of Jesus. If gay people tried to do that to Christians, we Christians would howl in protest and demand justice, with good reason. But gay people have never tried to do anything like that to Christians. We gay people simply want to live our lives with the same rights and responsibilities as heterosexuals. That includes the right to marry our spouses and provide legal protections to our families, including our children. Have I been denied the ability to live openly and freely? I'll share a personal story. A few years ago, I went with two women friends to a lesbian club. One of the friends was not a lesbian; she just wanted to go out with us to hear some music. Late in the evening we left the club and walked down the street. Suddenly we were attacked by a man yelling at us that we were dykes, and he was going to show us what a real man can do. He had a small gang of guys with him, though they did not actually participate in the attack. They just watched as he tried to choke me, and as my friend tried unsuccessfully to bring him down by kicking him in the knees. Our other friend managed somehow to get away and get back to the bar while we were trying to fight off this guy, who was clearly high on something. Suddenly he stopped fighting and accused me of pulling his gold chain and cross off his neck and losing it. He said, "That cross was blessed!" I said, "Oh, you are a religious person?" The guy then forced us to get down on our hands and knees and look for the cross on the ground. He also forced another woman to get down on the ground and search. She lived in a nearby apartment and had come out to see what the commotion was. The gang ensured that we could not get away. Then the police arrived and the guy was arrested. The police told us that he was a known rapist and someone known to attack gay people. He was eventually convicted of attacking us. Many gay people can share similar stories of having been attacked just for walking out of a bar or for holding hands or for being too visibly gay. I am not suggesting that Christians are the ones doing the attacking. But I would like to see more Christians standing up and speaking out against such crimes. Instead of debating whether "homosexuality" is a "sin," I think it would be useful for more Christians to stand up against the mistreatment of gay people. I think Jesus would have been in the forefront of the gay rights movement. I think Jesus would have been outspoken in his denunciation of those people who attack gay people and who treat gay people like we are not people at all. I would like to invite you, Zaac, to become one of those Christians who stands up against the still all-too-frequent attacks that are aimed at innocent gay people.

I won't even dignify the obvious with a response. Your problem is what YOU believe and do. Let God deal wit that before you start trying to branch out and be an activist.
 
Upvote 0

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2004
8,430
426
Atlanta, GA.
✟12,748.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Do you at least accept the possiblity that your interpretation of the Bible might be wrong?

It's not even an issue of interpretation. There is one correct interpretation and that is the one of the AUthor, Jesus Christ.

But folks don't understand that if the twists and turns they make to Scripture to make it okay their sin is in contradiction to the rest off the Word, it's not of God.

And to fix this, they discard the Bible as God's Word.

Dealing with what the text says and not getting into interpretation, there is not a person on the face of the earth who does not know that the committing of fornicative homosexual acts is sin.
 
Upvote 0

artybloke

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
5,222
456
66
North of England
✟8,017.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Politics
UK-Labour
Anything is possible, I'm by no means perfect. All I can do is my best to try to understand the message in scripture and try to write it into my brain. Of course that involves taking stands when I feel like the bible is being misrepresented, as standing on the fence on things has its own pitfalls as well.
Then you're already in a better place than most fundamentalists, who seem to think their interpretation is equivalent to what the Bible says. Not only that, but in calling the Bible the Word of God, they leave themselves open to idolising the words of the Bible themselves.

All our interpretations are fallible, as is the Bible itself, which was written by human beings not a divine being. Inspired they may have been, perfect they were not. In fact, they were just like us.

I think you have your heart in the right place; and I don't think you're essentially homophobic. Some of the people who come here definitely. I think your heart is telling you that homosexuality is not a sin; and I suspect (but of course I can't prove) that this is the Holy Spirit speaking to you.

God bless in your search.
 
Upvote 0

Ohioprof

Contributor
Jun 27, 2007
988
219
70
✟28,933.00
Faith
Unitarian
You mean like "the Bible is not God's Word?"
or "everyone is saved?"




You have taken this thread to a whole nother level that has nothing to do with the thread.




Let it be known that your theology is unBiblical and you don't speak for any Christian but you. That's why you're always saying "I think" instead of "thus sayeth the Lord."




As someone who doesn't trust the Word of God as His Word because it was written by fallible men, you ain't got a clue about what Jesus would do.




No straight person I know has sought to deny another Christian this right either. But we also hav it on God's authority to remove from the assembly folks who want to continue in sin and not repent and be restored to the Body.




I won't even dignify the obvious with a response. Your problem is what YOU believe and do. Let God deal wit that before you start trying to branch out and be an activist.
I am already an activist. I have been an activist for over 30 years.

I do not have a "problem," though I thank you for your concern. Small problems do emerge in my life, but I have been blessed in my life with no truly terrible problems. My life is grand, and I am happy.

I do speak for myself. You are right that I have never said, "Thus sayeth the Lord." I do not and cannot claim to speak for God. I do not quote God, because I do not know what God has said, if anything. I can speak only for myself.

Yes, my beliefs are un-Biblical. I have said that many times. As I have said before, my faith is a practice, not a set of beliefs or doctrine.

There are Christians like me who believe and who say that the Bible is not God's word, and who believe and who say that all are saved. I belong to a congregation that was founded 141 years ago as a Universalist congregation. Universalism was a significant movement within American Christianity in the 19th century. Universalists today are part of the Unitarian Universalist Association, but we still exist. Universalists believe in universal salvation. It's a Christian movement.
 
Upvote 0

Ohioprof

Contributor
Jun 27, 2007
988
219
70
✟28,933.00
Faith
Unitarian
It's not even an issue of interpretation. There is one correct interpretation and that is the one of the AUthor, Jesus Christ.

But folks don't understand that if the twists and turns they make to Scripture to make it okay their sin is in contradiction to the rest off the Word, it's not of God.

And to fix this, they discard the Bible as God's Word.

Dealing with what the text says and not getting into interpretation, there is not a person on the face of the earth who does not know that the committing of fornicative homosexual acts is sin.
You cannot read any text, or anything, without interpreting it. Reading is an act of interpretation.
 
Upvote 0

Ohioprof

Contributor
Jun 27, 2007
988
219
70
✟28,933.00
Faith
Unitarian
It's not even an issue of interpretation. There is one correct interpretation and that is the one of the AUthor, Jesus Christ.

But folks don't understand that if the twists and turns they make to Scripture to make it okay their sin is in contradiction to the rest off the Word, it's not of God.

And to fix this, they discard the Bible as God's Word.

Dealing with what the text says and not getting into interpretation, there is not a person on the face of the earth who does not know that the committing of fornicative homosexual acts is sin.
I do not think that "the committing of fornicative homosexual acts is sin." Am I not a person on the face of the earth?
 
Upvote 0

Ohioprof

Contributor
Jun 27, 2007
988
219
70
✟28,933.00
Faith
Unitarian
why are you focused on christians? there are plenty of non-christians who are hateful to homosexuals also. And anyone who is truly following the word of Christ is not going to perform any type of hate crime.

I understand that you are defending homosexuals, and I agree that they should be treated equally, but the tone of your post really makes it sound like christians are a bunch of hate spewing murderers.



I'm not sure if you can speak for all gay people on this. I would like it if all hetero's were simply wanting to live our lives with equal rights, but I cant conclusively say that all hetero's feel that way.
My post is not an attack on Christians, as I am a Christian myself. I said in my post that it is not necessarily Christians doing the attacking against gay people. Of course many non-Christians hate and attack gay people. And many Christians support and defend gay people. Many Christians ARE gay people.

I do think that we Christians need to step up and do more to stop the attackers and to speak out against those who attack gay people. I appreciate those Christians who step forward in this way.

You are probably right that not all gay people want to live our lives with equal rights and fair treatment, but all of the gay people I know do. I don't know any who don't, and I know hundreds of gay people. But I will take your criticism on this and amend my post to say that I as a gay person want simply to live my life and receive equal and fair treatment.
 
Upvote 0

Ohioprof

Contributor
Jun 27, 2007
988
219
70
✟28,933.00
Faith
Unitarian
why are you focused on christians? there are plenty of non-christians who are hateful to homosexuals also. And anyone who is truly following the word of Christ is not going to perform any type of hate crime.

I understand that you are defending homosexuals, and I agree that they should be treated equally, but the tone of your post really makes it sound like christians are a bunch of hate spewing murderers.



I'm not sure if you can speak for all gay people on this. I would like it if all hetero's were simply wanting to live our lives with equal rights, but I cant conclusively say that all hetero's feel that way.
Oh, another point on this is that I focus on Christians because that is who is posting here. I want to call all Christians to step forward and speak out against the violence and hatred that have been directed against gay people. Instead of debating whether "homosexuality" is a "sin," I think we should be standing up and speaking out against those who attack gay people.
 
Upvote 0

Apollo Celestio

Deal with it.
Jul 11, 2007
20,734
1,429
38
Ohio
✟51,579.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
Easier said than done to do that, hating someone seems alot easier than loving them for many people. And to think they think that they are doing good for God by attacking homosexuals and labeling them "worse" than the rest of us. I would become an activist in that aspect, to stop racism and discrimination.
 
Upvote 0

ReformedChapin

Chapin = Guatemalan
Apr 29, 2005
7,087
357
✟33,338.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
Easier said than done to do that, hating someone seems alot easier than loving them for many people. And to think they think that they are doing good for God by attacking homosexuals and labeling them "worse" than the rest of us. I would become an activist in that aspect, to stop racism and discrimination.
No conservative woud ever state that homosexuals are "worse than us." But we would follow scripture and state their sin is an abomination a
 
Upvote 0