Save a homosexual's soul!

[Ohioprof]

I already did in the Ryan White and Mathew Sheppard threads I started... but you only see what you want to see... hear what you want to hear... read what you want to read.

Pot....kettle.

 

[Ohioprof]

Further proof that the issue ain't with your mind and what you can reason through. The issue is your heart.

From what I have seen, EnemyParty has a good heart. No problem there, from what I can see.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Pot....kettle.

You have never even looked at either of those threads, newbie, foot... mouth.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

You want someone to take GOD out of the equation and show you why homosexuality is immoral? That's kind of silly considering that GOD is the standard for morality.

Here's the deal and I pray that you receive it. You rejecting the truth is an issue of the hardnes of your heart.

NOBODY can convince you that it is wrong. No one is called of God to convince you.

If you are serious about receiving the truth, then humble yourself before a holy God and listen.



Same as above.

Honestly some of yall seem to be very confused and seem to think this is a game. You keep disobeying all you want and wait for someone to prove these things to you. God has given you the choice to obey or disobey and it's only fitting that you avail yourself to disobey.

Proving items 1, 2 and 3 ain't gonna save the unsaved homosexual or heterosexual from a burning hell.

translation: I have nothing but "the Bible SEZ!"

No sale.

Next!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I already did in the Ryan White and Mathew Sheppard threads I started... but you only see what you want to see... hear what you want to hear... read what you want to read.

please repost?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

translation: I have nothing but "the Bible SEZ!"

No sale.

Next!

With your requirements, its impossible to prove anything to you, since you immediately refuse any biblical reference. By doing so you leave yourself open to any number of rationalizations and a situational ethics code. Therefore your question is unanswerable.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

I think it's more important to explain to EnemyPart why we see the Bible as innerant (if we do) rather then arguing over the issue of homosexuality.

Just a brief summary, because it would take a long time, and I have other study I need to do.

There are many sources of the OT and whilst there are slight inaccuracies between some of the sources, the overall message of the OT does not change.

In the NT Jesus refers many times to the OT as the "Prophets and the Law".

The NT has never been disputed by those living at the time, surely if the accounts of Jesus were false people would have spoken up?

Whilst the four gospels give differing, and there are even occasional contradictions in their accounts, again the overall message is the same. The apostles of Jesus also accept Paul as an apostle, his words are taken also as inspired by God. His testimony gives rise to this.

As a protestant, could I possibly say that there are doubts on the authenticity/validity of the apogrypha so it is not included in the protestant bible.

There are many incidences when the Bible (all 66 books) tie together. The entire book does give one story - the story of God creating the world and man falling away and God's solution.

That in a very small nutshell sums up why I believe the bible is inerrant, purely from a logical view. However I would say that it is impossible to have faith through a logical view of scripture - God gives us faith and allows us relationship with him. I believe because of what God has done for me and how he has revealed himself to me.
I put this out because if you really want a discussion on these boards about homosexuality and why we believe it is a sin, you will need to understand this is our view of the bible. Even if you don't agree then, when we say we believe because the bible says this, it is actually where our points of view comes from.

Now some people may also have homophobic tendencies, but I just need to clarify this point before I can go on and state why I believe homosexuality is a sin.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

With your requirements, its impossible to prove anything to you, since you immediately refuse any biblical reference. By doing so you leave yourself open to any number of rationalizations and a situational ethics code. Therefore your question is unanswerable.

If you can explain to me why I should accept the Bible as inerrant word of God... I am more than happy to listen to any argument for the Bible being inerrant, as long as the whole of that argument can't be reduced to "the Bible is inerrant because the Bible is inerrant"

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I think it's more important to explain to EnemyPart why we see the Bible as innerant (if we do) rather then arguing over the issue of homosexuality.

Just a brief summary, because it would take a long time, and I have other study I need to do.

There are many sources of the OT and whilst there are slight inaccuracies between some of the sources, the overall message of the OT does not change.

In the NT Jesus refers many times to the OT as the "Prophets and the Law".

The NT has never been disputed by those living at the time, surely if the accounts of Jesus were false people would have spoken up?

Whilst the four gospels give differing, and there are even occasional contradictions in their accounts, again the overall message is the same. The apostles of Jesus also accept Paul as an apostle, his words are taken also as inspired by God. His testimony gives rise to this.

As a protestant, could I possibly say that there are doubts on the authenticity/validity of the apogrypha so it is not included in the protestant bible.

There are many incidences when the Bible (all 66 books) tie together. The entire book does give one story - the story of God creating the world and man falling away and God's solution.

That in a very small nutshell sums up why I believe the bible is inerrant, purely from a logical view. However I would say that it is impossible to have faith through a logical view of scripture - God gives us faith and allows us relationship with him. I believe because of what God has done for me and how he has revealed himself to me.
I put this out because if you really want a discussion on these boards about homosexuality and why we believe it is a sin, you will need to understand this is our view of the bible. Even if you don't agree then, when we say we believe because the bible says this, it is actually where our points of view comes from.

Now some people may also have homophobic tendencies, but I just need to clarify this point before I can go on and state why I believe homosexuality is a sin.

appreciate polite and rational discussion

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

Alright well...I'll try to begin.

First of all this is not my area of expertise...I'm not good at this at all so forgive me. I hope that I do no present any errors.

The inerrancy of the Bible, and divine inspiration, is given intext. So when many say that the Bible is inerrant because it says so, they are referring to 2 Tim. 3:16. Also inspired by God as implied by timothy is that God inspired these writers what to write it is of our faith that we believe this. Why? Because across 66 books of the bible over 2000 years they scriptures still follow the same main idea. There are references in Genesis, and Psalms for example, that speak of the coming of Christ. but that is hardly a reason at all to believe the bible is inerrant, because I could easily write a book and say that it is the word of God yeah?

But what sticks out in the bible is firstly the amount of manuscripts we have of the bible. Now - there is not *original document* of the bible sitting in a holy shrine somewhere. But there are literally tens of thousands of OT scripture which Jesus refers to as the "Prophets and the Law" sitting around different parts of the Middle East. It is a fact that the OT and NT manuscripts is easily the most reliably sourced document. The next closest is Homer's Illiad, which if I remember correctly might have been twenty or so documents, and after that Caesar's work on his campaigns in Gaul stands at 5 manuscripts.

So then it is TRUE, this is not a subjective argument, that there are more manuscripts of the Bible running around then any other historical document. True also that each one is not an exact copy of each other, since they were people that copied them. However in all the tens of thousands of copies, they all contain the same core message in their stories.

Also the OT has been found to be historically accurate without necessarily being entirely accurate. So sometimes there are indeed contradictions in the word. Even inside the bible there are contradictions, it would be stupid for anyone to say there isn't. SO the events portrayed in the OT mostly did occur - I guess the biggest angst concerns the creation story, and probably Noahs flood.

Here's my view on those two things - why would go use scientific knowledge which we *know* (pointing out that science is rather incomplete, and only tests things observable by man) today to explain to the ancients. That is God would only tell Moses to use words and concepts they understood to explain the creation story. Therefore in my opinion, the creation story does not necessarily have to be true, although it can.

(more to continue)

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

Just recapping what I said before I continue
There are many manuscripts that are on the most part the same lying around, more so that any other historical document we take to be true, so therefore on that same logic, the words of the bible can be taken as those of the original document. (refering to the Hebrew and Greek not english here!)

There are many prophecies written thousands of years before Christ came specific to Jesus Christ that refer to him, and specific details. Psalm 22 is a very good one.

That sort of sums up the OT.

The NT starting with the gospels
2 of the 4 gospels -Matthew and John are written by apostles of Jesus. Luke/Mark are written by close disciples of apostles, including Paul.
Acts is written by Luke, it is a very accurate book in terms of historical information.
There are in some of these gospels very specific detail about Jesus, and are held to be eye witness accounts in the case of the first two, or accounts of eye witness accounts in the second 2.
The letters of Paul are written by Paul, who as per his own letters, met Jesus in a supernatural experience. There are no documents anywhere denying what Paul saw, or any documents denying Jesus' miracles/ his resurrection (he also appeared as referenced by these texts to many others not just his apostles) Also Paul meets the apostles and they equate himself as one of them.

The rest of NT scripture lies in Revelations which is suppose to be written by John, although there is doubt which John it is. Nevertheless it is held by the 1st Century church and each one after it to be God-inspired Gospel.

That is just what I can give to you, if you would like to do some more research do so, it is out there. Also read a Case for Christ.

I would like to finish by saying, sometimes even that evidence does not seem enough to prove that the word is God-inspired but the amount of cross references for example are enough at least to show that it is one document, and tells a story, and that it is accurate. The rest comes down to faith. Do you believe that Jesus as accounted for in the gospels is in the son of God and died for your sins, and that through him you can have eternal life?

The whole Christian faith lies on these things.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

And on the issue of faith..its a bit weird...

As has been my case, and many others is that the more we look, the more answers God gives. I can never answer every single about the authenticity of the Bible...nor can anyone else...at some stage you will have to sit down an make a decision...is this true or not?

I made this decision and I never regretted it since, God has turned my life around. If you want to read about that go read my testimony.

On this issue of homosexuality. It is my belief that as I have no doubt many have said to you on these boards over and over again using scripture to site how homosexuality is sinful. I'm also aware that to each of these others will offer contradictory arguments. Here is my 2 cents - if you believe in my God, if you pray to him, if you ask him, He will convict you on what you need to change in your life. If you confess the sins you have now, he will help you change those things. It really does not bother me if you do not see homosexuality as a sin - if you do not see it as a sin, then you can't change it! And frankly I don't think God may see this as the number 1 issue in a Christians life, if they also happen to be gay. It may be that for the rest of their life on Earth, God never gets them to get around to changing that.

However more than likely if you do believe in my God, at some stage, he will convict you on the need to change that part of your life. But until then, I will not judge you for what you are because I too am a sinner and my God commands me not to judge but to build others and to show the truth of his Gospel to the world.

Finish my 3 post rant.

Peace.

 

[artybloke]

if you believe in my God

I didn't know you could own God. Have you got the purchase agreement there?

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

I mean it as the God that I believe in.

But I think you knew that as well and just wanted to cause provocation?

 

[artybloke]

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but there is so often among fundamentalists the idee fixe that their way of reading the Bible is God's way of reading the Bible.

Unfortunately, it very rarely is.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but there is so often among fundamentalists the idee fixe that their way of reading the Bible is God's way of reading the Bible.

Unfortunately, it very rarely is.

What are you getting at exactly? You're last 2 posts have nothing to do with any of the posts I have made in this thread? In fact you haven't stated your opinion on anything except to take a swipe and me and try and label me a fundamentalist.

 

[Zaac]

I am not confused. I think that Christians should accept gay people as we are.

We do accept you as who you are. You're a sinner mired in sin just like the rest of us.

You just seem to think that your sin ain't sin.

I think the Christians who have been doing so should stop pointing fingers at us and stop throwing stones at us. I think Christians who do not like gay people should leave us alone and stop denigrating us.

Why? Why don't you accept those Christians as who they are and stop pointing fingers atthem and telling them what they should do? Why don't you leave them alone and stop trying to get them to stop doing what God commands?

 

[Zaac]

From what I have seen, EnemyParty has a good heart. No problem there, from what I can see.

Matt 15:19: “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.”

Mark 7:21-23: “For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, "thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness." All these evil things come from within and defile a man”

Jer 17:9-10 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.”


Matt 19:16-17: “Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? "So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments

 

[Zaac]

translation: I have nothing but "the Bible SEZ!"

No sale.

Next!

The proper translation is "No one need waste their time trying to prove anything to YOU."

The heart that really wants truth will seek it out for the sake of having a relationship with the Truth.

Your request is beyond silly because you think that people can convince you to any degree of satisfaction to you that your sin is sin and that God's Word is His Word and absolute Truth.

Anything said to you will be conveniently retorted with a twisted lie that you want to be the truth.

You play the games of a child.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

So her mind is set in stone before the topic was even made, and this was just a trap to hopefully call on those who believe homosexual acts are wrong when they err?